no power to anything - battery charged (solved)

[WarDamnEagle]

I'm not a master electrician, that said, my philosophy is always do the easiest thing first. Get a set of jumper cables, the 10 foot long ones everyone used to keep in their car. Try jumping it from another cars battery. One of those dedicated car jump starters should work as well. That will eliminate a possibility of a bad battery. Your battery voltages seems low to me, but it still should light up something. Then check ALL your fuses. Make sure you did not fry the new fusible link. Next clean up every ground you can find.

I'm repeating some of what has been said before, but hopefully simpler.

This. Still not sure why you wouldn't at least try to jump it with another battery? That has got to be the simplest thing you could do. Sometimes these Optima batteries show ~12v under no load but have an internal short that manifests under load and you get 0v - like when you turn on your lights. I could be completely wrong but I'm going with the battery at his point.

 

[Kschep]

i mean my god its a fricken brand new battery but i guess i will try that tmrw

 

[Kschep]

Pull the black/yellow off the solenoid and jump power to the terminal, lets confirm your battery can crank the engine over.

will try this first thing after moving the ground connection to the correct position

 

[firefighterjed]

Remind us all what was done right before you lost power to everything. That’s where the problem probably lies.
From what I read, this is the story:
It was running, but blowing the fuse that was going from battery (+) to your wiring harness. You bought a fusible link and installed it between (+) and your wiring harness. You also put new clamps on your battery terminals.

**After those modifications you lost power?

**You posted a pic of a fuse block in your glove box and a relay on your firewall. Did you add those at the same time as the above work?

Listen to rockymtnflyfisher. He’s trying to take you through a process of elimination to determine where the fault in your wiring setup is. It certainly has to do with the work you did. You just need to find where.

Basic auto electrical set up has the frame and body acting as the conductor to the (-) battery terminal aka:ground.

Your wiring, fuses and switches manage the conduction of (+) voltage to all the components of the electrical system which will do their job when energized, provided that they have a good ground that completes the circuit back to battery (-).

There should be a ground cable from the battery to the frame, another from the starter/engine block to the frame, and the body to the frame. In this way, all these components are electrically connected and act as the “ground” conductor that completes the electrical circuits back to the battery (-).

Once you’ve verified that the battery, body and frame are all well grounded by cables or braided straps which are clean and tight, you can move on to the (+) distribution side.

With your multimeter, ground the black lead and probe with the red. You should have the same voltage at battery (+), after the fusible link, and at the factory fuse block. Some of the fuse block only gets power when the ignition is on, so make sure your probing one that’s always on (lighter or headlights). When you find where the reading drops, or stops, you’ve found the problem.

The problem is usually the most simple (battery, fuses) or the most recent item worked on (battery terminals, fusible link, fuse block you added)

Use a methodical process of elimination to find your problem.

Good luck!

 

[TheHardWay]

^^^^ what @firefighterjed. THIS IS THE BEST ELECTRICAL STUFF 101 I'VE READ YET. Kyle, you need to take a deep breath, tell yourself to stop overthinking this and start with at least 3 readings of Jed's explanation before you go any further down the rabbit hole. Electrical troubleshooting is hard, and has to be broken down into manageable sections. Your head must be spinning. ADMIN, WE NEED A SPINNING HEAD EMOJI !

 

[Kschep]

Any chance that you accidentally unplugged part of the wiring harness that goes into the cab at the firewall?

i mean its a possibility but the wires that dont get voltage are ones that run straight through without any connection in the middle so i could check that if i cant get some of the other things to work.

 

[Kschep]

spot on Jed, its hard to stay on task when everyone is throwing me different ideas to do. but yes i am following RK's method of elimination...

to answer your question no the relay and aux fuse box were there before problem and worked fine. all i did was what you said...took to smog shop, had an in-line fuse with a 25amp fuse in it (where a "fusible link should have been)...fuse in the in-line kept blowing, so i took home ordered fusible link, made new battery cables up while i waited, installed fusible link, took off dash cluster because my speedo came off and needed to reattach, i did have to shove everything back in when i put the dash cluster back on but ya i didnt think that needed to be said.

Where im at....

good ground from battery - to frame
**am cleaning up my starters ground placement and will ground that well because i did butter the end up with wire cover drying goop because of the exposed copper between the lug end and the wire rubber cover...when i took that connection off - there was plenty of rust on the connection between the metal - so will see what happens there...i need to clean the factory area because its really gunked up.

established that when i jump the starter post i do get some power transfer that isnt there without it.

Next order of operation:
-will jump the starter and see if the engine will turn off of battery
then of course im still following this:

So we have established that you have a "fair" ground to the frame-engine-body.

You have voltage at, and through the fusible link.

Next step is back to tour fuse block.

I noticed that you had some alligator clips for your test leads, clip the black lead to a GOOD ground reference.

Start checking voltage there.

You also said you had voltage at the ammeter last night?

But let's find out where you have voltage, and where you don't have voltage.

4 of 6 nodes have NO voltage reading whatsoever - bottom one (headlamp) and top 3 all do have voltage - let me get you a reading.


(I have work today unfortunately so I will report back and im so grateful for all your guidance on this)

 

[John McVicker]

Don’t know what year you are working on but you are getting smog check in Ca so I assume ‘76 or newer.

You had the gauge cluster out, on the back of your cluster…did you hook up the volt meter properly?

 

[Kschep]

Don’t know what year you are working on but you are getting smog check in Ca so I assume ‘76 or newer.

You had the gauge cluster out, on the back of your cluster…did you hook up the volt meter properly?

solid white to positive
white/blue to negative

 

[4Cruisers]

You should probably clean the fuse clips on the fuse block while you're at it. I had a problem with my '76 FJ40 a few years ago and fixed it by cleaning the clips even though they looked clean to me. All it takes is a small amount of corrosion.

 

[Kschep]

ya but my starter is not transferring power ... power runs through the fusible link, power is going to the starter, but no power is coming out. when i jumped power (per Whitey45 suggestion earlier) to the output post all the sudden i got a full voltage reading at my ignition coil when there wasnt any voltage 0.00 before . and when i take the jump of it goes back to not transferring power. not sure if im using the correct language (transferring)

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

One thing that concerns me, the fact that you had 25 amp fuses that kept blowing.


Fuses blow for a reason, we NEED to find that reason.


As an industrial electrician one rule of blown fuses or tripped breakers, never close in to a fault. The overcurrent protection device opened for a reason, that reason must be found or more damage will follow.

 

[brooklyn]

Feeling your pain — will say I had red top optimas for years and always had electric issues related to starts. Finally gave up one them - life was better. I also purchased a remote starter switch, which stays in the glove box. My suggestion, which has been mentioned before, use a battery from another vehicle, use a remote starter switch and see if it starts. If it starts, then start working through ignition wiring.

I am guessing you bumped something messing with the wiring and you just have to work through it — my no start was caused by a faulty positive lead to the coil. Took me multiple days to sort out!

 

[Kschep]

One thing that concerns me, the fact that you had 25 amp fuses that kept blowing.


Fuses blow for a reason, we NEED to find that reason.


As an industrial electrician one rule of blown fuses or tripped breakers, never close in to a fault. The overcurrent protection device opened for a reason, that reason must be found or more damage will follow.

standard fusible link for stock 76 fj40 is like 30amps isnt it? or i need to look through my email and see what coolerman told me it was but the 25 was too low and at the time i didnt want to just keep putting in higher fuses to see if it would run because i didnt know what was going on at the time...soon to figure out that an in-line fuse was incorrect and a correct period fusible link needed to be made for me - which coolerman and toyotamatt did so i have an extra one on hand...then im here (plus said battey cable "upgrades" (lol), and cluster adjusment/wire loom shove back into position...and im here

funny thing is it was running unusually well on the way to the smog shop and then once he had it on the dyno and reving boom popped

so is it the new battery cables i made - no because we checked and voltage is transferring
is it the new fusible link i installed? - no because we checked voltage on the opposite side of the plug and it was transferring voltage equally
is it something behind my cluster when i shoved all the wires back in? doubted because the only wires without voltage are the ones that run straight through without a connection plug point in the middle of the harness
...back to the starter (which i havnt fricken touched at all in this whole ordeal) power isnt going through...
So could the starter or starter solenoid got blown during this process and its just bad now and needs to be replaced?...
but aside from that .... so is it the starter ground got rusty randomly in the middle of all this? - doubted, but it looks bad and will replace spot and see what happens..
but, moving on from that i havnt done much other than just over my wire loom with split sleeve so its pretty unmolesting to the wires and connection and easy to take apart but i think im just going to keep doing what RK is saying with the "process"

but theres my info and where my heads at....but again following the RK process of elimination

(YES i need to jump it and see if the battery will start the car but im away from house now so i cant do that immediately)

 

[bikersmurf]

standard fusible link for stock 76 fj40 is like 30amps isnt it? or i need to look through my email and see what coolerman told me it was but the 25 was too low and at the time i didnt want to just keep putting in higher fuses to see if it would run because i didnt know what was going on at the time...soon to figure out that an in-line fuse was incorrect and a correct period fusible link needed to be made for me - which coolerman and toyotamatt did so i have an extra one on hand...then im here (plus said battey cable "upgrades" (lol), and cluster adjusment/wire loom shove back into position...and im here

funny thing is it was running unusually well on the way to the smog shop and then once he had it on the dyno and reving boom popped

so is it the new battery cables i made - no because we checked and voltage is transferring
is it the new fusible link i installed? - no because we checked voltage on the opposite side of the plug and it was transferring voltage equally
is it something behind my cluster when i shoved all the wires back in? doubted because the only wires without voltage are the ones that run straight through without a connection plug point in the middle of the harness
...back to the starter (which i havnt fricken touched at all in this whole ordeal) power isnt going through...
So could the starter or starter solenoid got blown during this process and its just bad now and needs to be replaced?...
but aside from that .... so is it the starter ground got rusty randomly in the middle of all this? - doubted, but it looks bad and will replace spot and see what happens..
but, moving on from that i havnt done much other than just over my wire loom with split sleeve so its pretty unmolesting to the wires and connection and easy to take apart but i think im just going to keep doing what RK is saying with the "process"

but theres my info and where my heads at....but again following the RK process of elimination

(YES i need to jump it and see if the battery will start the car but im away from house now so i cant do that immediately)

When tested, NAPA told me my alternator was putting out 40 amps on top of the engine requirements to run (10-15 amps). Now if I was running a 25 amp fuse it would blow the fuse if I had the heater blower on while the headlights were on and I hit the brakes. Theoretically the alternator would prevent it while running… but if it momentarily stopped charging or the battery was drawing 25 amps to recharge… the fuse would be toast.

 

[hobbes]

Just because a cable can transmit a voltage doesn't necessarily mean it can transmit required amperage.

If your old battery cables are laying around you could try those again. Even easier would be to use a set of jumper cables to parallel your new ground and positive wires (if you can get the positive clamp on the starter). If there is no change in symptoms then that would suggest your new cables are not the culprit.

Per Coolerman’s advice several years ago, I added a third ground wire from my negative battery post to my alternator bracket. This ensures I have proper alternator grounding if rust and dirt build up between the bracket and engine block. Bonus, it backs up the starter to ground connection.

 

[whitey45]

You can never have too many grounds!!!

 

[Kschep]

well i just got my 10ft test leads to go with my meter so i can test everywhere now without having to try and maneuver the length that comes on the meter...anyways so ill be able to get any number for anyone tmrw - will be back at this tmrw morning and will update on my progress with some information for you guys.

 

[Kschep]

ok readings abound...

just to start it seems EVERYTHING stops at the starter solenoid output post - voltage going in = 12.18 ; voltage coming out (to ign coil) 0.00

but numbers wise voltage readings....from the beginning
-battery + reading after full charge according to my charger = 12.18 volts
-Battery - ground reading - same 12.18 volts (so good ground there)
-from Battery + to NEW fusible link - 12.18
-from battery ground to ampmeter - full 11.9 and 12-something readings (both on the neg post and positive post on ampmeter) - but depending on where i help it it gave full or little below (post vs actual ring connection to post)
-From battery to starter (with new Well grounded position on frame) 12.18
-*****from starter to ignition coil - 0.00 !!! ****
-Fuse Block - 8 fuse positions - 4 of 8 have 0.00 Volt reading - (with key-on position)
top 3 fuses - 8.5 volts, 8.5volts, 7.9-8.3volts. - depending on how the prong is touching the surface it wants to jump around (i should just
clip it)
Middle 4 fuses - All 0.00 volt readings
Last botom fuse (headlamp) - jumps between 6.3-7.2 volts (again depending on the prong and holding it against fuse clip


SOOOO, theres the numbers ..... I think it has everything to do with my Starter solenoid or starter as a whole.

NEXT - jump the starter post and see if engine will turn...be back with that answer shortly

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

-from Battery + to NEW fusible link - 12.18

Let's talk about this.


Is this voltage from the positive post in the battery to bare copper at the fusible link?