My Turn - The Mega Dream Garage

[PAToyota]

For reference, my ceilings are about 10' to 11' and the fixtures are spaced about 6' apart. When I put them in, the T12HO were about the best option out there - both for light output as well as not being affected by colder temperatures.

Granted, they were 20+ years old when I replaced them, but the LED were quite a bit brighter. Not uncomfortably so, though. They are also instant on where the fluorescent bulbs took a couple moments to "warm up" and get bright.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

Here are the lights my guys is suggesting.
Based on achieving 50 fc (which based on my reading/research is an acceptable level and recommended standard for a commercial manufacturing/chemical or assembly facility [I may want 60 though since I may do some painting]) I will need to do further research to determine the number of lights I actually will need.
The calculator linked earlier does not have Topaz as an option so I will need to try to either find a calculator that does or find a similar light that officer 20,000 lumen to determine the number and placement. These lights are about $125 each I am told so even if I needed 10 it would not break the bank.

View attachment 3157107View attachment 3157106View attachment 3157105

It looks like theirs are at nearly 20 feet maybe. I would think that you really need to have your work plane match the diffusion of the light otherwise you may be wasting energy because extra light is cast lower than necessary or the "bubble" does not fully expand before hitting your work plane - or even your floor.

Who knew this would be so complicated. Residential is easy compared to this since most ceilings are 8 feet or just a little more and we generally make up lack of light by a bigger bulb in a fixture or adding a lamp somewhere.

Just three comments. You shouldn't put 20000 lumen lights at 12' or 13' (or even 14'). The limit at that height would be around 12000 lumens. Quality LEDs have a 100,000 hour (L70) life. 50 lumens might work for you but I would want more.

12000 lumen Lithonia IBE lights are about $110 each.

 

[jynx]

What "K" do you guys find best? 4k or 5k or?

 

[WarDamnEagle]

What "K" do you guys find best? 4k or 5k or?

5000 although I'm sure some people would find 4000 more to their liking. 5000 is supposed to replicate sunlight. 4000 is a bit warmer but not yellow. FWIW warm white from a typical incandescent is around 2700 to 3000.

 

[Hugh Heifer]

This light tech is melting my brain.
I am just going to use a head lamp.

 

[Hugh Heifer]

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For my shop I am looking at the 15000 lumen in a 5k temperature. 16 of those at 15' gives well over 100 footcandles at 30". That's probably too much light (if there is such a thing) but they have a dimming function which I will make use of. 16 12000 lumen fixtures gives 97 footcandles (which is probably plenty) but the price difference of the fixtures isn't that much.

Regarding my comment, are you looking at only installing 4 UFO fixtures for the entire shop or is that only "the back row" in the shop with more lights to be installed later? If you are only installing 4 for the whole shop then my comment is that's not enough.

I was originally going with UFO lights but they do seem to have more problems than the linear high bays. Apparently they generate more heat than the linear high bays which results in premature failures. I am not an expert by any means and I'm just going on my interpretation of what I have read. The UFOs are easier to install as they hang from one point instead of two and they do look pretty cool so I wouldn't necessarily shy away from them based on my information.

I assume you are looking at the 24 inch? Looks like the 48 inch go way up in Lumens starting at 22000.

 

[PAToyota]

This light tech is melting my brain.
I am just going to use a head lamp.

Funny you mention that. I said the shop I work at has the UFO lights. Several people use the headlamps because of the shadows even though the overhead lights are blindingly bright.

[Architect mode on]

This might help on the color temperature discussion:

I went with 6500K for the downstairs (auto/fabrication) area of my shop. Upstairs (woodworking) has a range of lights in the 2500K to 3500K realm.

Walking around the neighborhood at night I see houses that are using 5000K+ bulbs inside. Personally, I don't like that. I prefer a "warmer" light source for household interiors. I do have "cooler" temperature bulbs for reading and work lights in the house, but for overall lighting those just feel cold and stark. As such, the woodworking shop has warmer lights too to mimic that household light to get more accurate color rendition so a piece of furniture looks "right" when it is in the house.

I mention reading and work lights. Brighter "colder" lights do help for detail work. You may want "warmer" overall lights and then "cooler" lights over your workbench or in specific areas.

I have a lot of these discussions with clients. Often, they'll see "daylight" on bulbs at the store and think that is the best option. But really, most of the daylight in your home is reflected light - which picks up the colors of the walls, furniture, or even the trees and other surroundings outside your window before coming into your house. Also, time of day affects "daylight" - obviously you have "warmer" colors in the morning and evening when the sun is lower on the horizon. Your body responds to these colors and using "cold" bright lights late into the evening convinces your body that it is still mid-day. This can be good if you're trying to stay up to study or finish a report for work, but can be an issue if you're trying to wind down and get ready for bed.

Style will also affect these choices. An older home with stained woodwork will likely want warmer lighting to bring out the quality of the woodwork. More modern homes with brighter colors will want colder lighting to make those colors pop.

[/Architect mode off]

 

[jynx]

We use 2700k in the house, but I've got some 4000k in some of my porch lighting. Have some friends that did LED cans inside and apparently didn't know the difference. They have to be 6000+. Its a traditional home and the cold white light is awful.

6500k? I guess I always thought anything over 6000k started getting blue-ish. Have you been pleased with that level? I was leaning toward 5000k, but could be persuaded.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

I assume you are looking at the 24 inch? Looks like the 48 inch go way up in Lumens starting at 22000.

Yes. The 12000 are 24” (they might actually be 22” but that’s off the top of my head).

I am going to use 15000 at 15’. I think that will work for me because I’m going to use 16 fixtures instead of 12. I want to avoid shadows as much as possible. FWIW the rectangular lights will give more even lighting that the UFOs. Again, I’m not against UFO LEDs but I think they are not a good choice for your application.

 

[jht3]

while not a huge shop like you guys have, i have six 4' fixtures at 9' height, in my normal 24'x22' garage. two 5000k LED tubes in each. spent wayyyy too much time on garage journal before buying and wiring these up. felt like i was on the sun as compared to single builder grade bulb there before. now i feel like i could use more fixtures. no real shadows to complain about however. they fire right up in the cold.

i find 5000k just right in a working shop, but in the house or even ON the house (external fixtures) it better be 2700k. how my neighbors have 5-6000k lights inside or on their porches, i don't know

 

[PAToyota]

6500k? I guess I always thought anything over 6000k started getting blue-ish. Have you been pleased with that level? I was leaning toward 5000k, but could be persuaded.

For general automotive work and fabrication it works well for me. For other areas, it would be a bit stark for my tastes. It's still pretty white. About 7000K and you start to really notice the blue.

 

[Hugh Heifer]

Funny you mention that. I said the shop I work at has the UFO lights. Several people use the headlamps because of the shadows even though the overhead lights are blindingly bright.

[Architect mode on]

This might help on the color temperature discussion:
View attachment 3158034

I went with 6500K for the downstairs (auto/fabrication) area of my shop. Upstairs (woodworking) has a range of lights in the 2500K to 3500K realm.

Walking around the neighborhood at night I see houses that are using 5000K+ bulbs inside. Personally, I don't like that. I prefer a "warmer" light source for household interiors. I do have "cooler" temperature bulbs for reading and work lights in the house, but for overall lighting those just feel cold and stark. As such, the woodworking shop has warmer lights too to mimic that household light to get more accurate color rendition so a piece of furniture looks "right" when it is in the house.

I mention reading and work lights. Brighter "colder" lights do help for detail work. You may want "warmer" overall lights and then "cooler" lights over your workbench or in specific areas.

I have a lot of these discussions with clients. Often, they'll see "daylight" on bulbs at the store and think that is the best option. But really, most of the daylight in your home is reflected light - which picks up the colors of the walls, furniture, or even the trees and other surroundings outside your window before coming into your house. Also, time of day affects "daylight" - obviously you have "warmer" colors in the morning and evening when the sun is lower on the horizon. Your body responds to these colors and using "cold" bright lights late into the evening convinces your body that it is still mid-day. This can be good if you're trying to stay up to study or finish a report for work, but can be an issue if you're trying to wind down and get ready for bed.

Style will also affect these choices. An older home with stained woodwork will likely want warmer lighting to bring out the quality of the woodwork. More modern homes with brighter colors will want colder lighting to make those colors pop.

[/Architect mode off]

Don't turn it off on my account, I am learning a heck of a lot as I wander this lighted path

 

[WarDamnEagle]

At the risk of blowing more than your mind, the Lithonia fixtures are dimmable. However, you need a separate pair of 16 gauge (for example) wires to connect to a dimmer switch that is specific for 0-10v dimmable LEDs. You don't have to make use of this function but you will need the additional wiring if you want to make them dimmable. You can buy MC cable (metal shielded) with 2 conductors, a ground, and the separate control pair in one shielded cable. I will use that type of wire to install these lights.

 

[Hugh Heifer]

At the risk of blowing more than your mind, the Lithonia fixtures are dimmable. However, you need a separate pair of 16 gauge (for example) wires to connect to a dimmer switch that is specific for 0-10v dimmable LEDs. You don't have to make use of this function but you will need the additional wiring if you want to make them dimmable. You can buy MC cable (metal shielded) with 2 conductors, a ground, and the separate control pair in one shielded cable. I will use that type of wire to install these lights.

That is easy to understand. I probably will not bother with that...but my walls are all open so I certainly could later.

I was talking to the wife last night about all this. It is easy to explain with some hand motions.

I do plan on seperating the lights into three banks (meaning on three switches): far bay, near bay and under the mezzanine. (Oh and then the exterior lights front and back on two seperate switches.)

 

[1911]

Funny you mention that. I said the shop I work at has the UFO lights. Several people use the headlamps because of the shadows even though the overhead lights are blindingly bright.

[Architect mode on]

This might help on the color temperature discussion:
View attachment 3158034

I went with 6500K for the downstairs (auto/fabrication) area of my shop. Upstairs (woodworking) has a range of lights in the 2500K to 3500K realm.

Walking around the neighborhood at night I see houses that are using 5000K+ bulbs inside. Personally, I don't like that. I prefer a "warmer" light source for household interiors. I do have "cooler" temperature bulbs for reading and work lights in the house, but for overall lighting those just feel cold and stark. As such, the woodworking shop has warmer lights too to mimic that household light to get more accurate color rendition so a piece of furniture looks "right" when it is in the house.

I mention reading and work lights. Brighter "colder" lights do help for detail work. You may want "warmer" overall lights and then "cooler" lights over your workbench or in specific areas.

I have a lot of these discussions with clients. Often, they'll see "daylight" on bulbs at the store and think that is the best option. But really, most of the daylight in your home is reflected light - which picks up the colors of the walls, furniture, or even the trees and other surroundings outside your window before coming into your house. Also, time of day affects "daylight" - obviously you have "warmer" colors in the morning and evening when the sun is lower on the horizon. Your body responds to these colors and using "cold" bright lights late into the evening convinces your body that it is still mid-day. This can be good if you're trying to stay up to study or finish a report for work, but can be an issue if you're trying to wind down and get ready for bed.

Style will also affect these choices. An older home with stained woodwork will likely want warmer lighting to bring out the quality of the woodwork. More modern homes with brighter colors will want colder lighting to make those colors pop.

[/Architect mode off]

Thanks Thomas, that is the most useful explanation of color frequencies I have ever read.

 

[PAToyota]

Thanks Thomas, that is the most useful explanation of color frequencies I have ever read.

As I say, I've been over it pretty regularly and have to explain it to some pretty non-technical people. So, hopefully, my "speech" has become concise and refined over the years. I appreciate hearing that what I'm saying actually makes sense to someone.

 

[Ol Yeller]

Saw this today and thought of your storage attic access HH

 

[Hugh Heifer]

Thanks for the poke. Not a lot happening in the shop. I added some more metal to a very short wall with some 2x4 backing for a place to put some clothes hooks - everbody needs a place to hang coveralls qnd sweat shirts. @jynx has offered a wood burner which would be awesome. Probably burn me out. I finished modifying some cheap free pallet racking. Next is getting lighting - which we have beaten to death in this thread. I am off this coming Monday and hope to get the 40 rolling and inside the shop. It has been in the leanto for over a year. Happy holidays all!

 

[1911]

I added some more metal to a very short wall with some 2x4 backing for a place to put some clothes hooks - everbody needs a place to hang coveralls qnd sweat shirts.

I remember when I put up a closet hanger rod and a long shelf in my last shop, it was such a luxury, to have a dedicated space for all of my leather jackets, helmets, riding gear and shop/insulated coveralls and whatnot. Really made a big difference for my enjoyment of that shop.

Definitely going to have one again in my new shop!

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

I remember when I put up a closet hanger rod and a long shelf in my last shop, it was such a luxury, to have a dedicated space for all of my leather jackets, helmets, riding gear and shop/insulated coveralls and whatnot. Really made a big difference for my enjoyment of that shop.

Definitely going to have one again in my new shop!

Just have to remember to shake them out before putting clothes on. I have found a few surprises.