Builds Mitsubishi 4D34-3AT3B diesel swap into 94 FZJ80 (1 Viewer)

[Pacer]

I'd like to jump in here too. I've been gathering parts and am about to pull my 3fe out of my 62 and get this done too.

The 4m50 is a physically larger motor, with 16 valves stuffed in a cyl head that is twice the width of the 8 valve motors. Would not fit against a cruiser fire wall with out moving everything forward. They do come with the aw450. They are very common here in the states and there is one build here on Mud with a 4m50. Cool, and very strong motor!

Fromage, I I'm going with the a440f, but I have one of Rodney's fancy valve bodies in there. I agree, third gear lock up completely eliminates a huge hole in the powerband. Makes even the 3fe more fun to push.
Thanks for the updates.
Please, why don't you just ditch that tail pipe and try it without? The turbo quiets things down plenty, no?

 

[mirage4m40]

Pacer,you are right but i think that its easier to fit a 4M50 in cruiser than to fit a 4D34 in my van..My biggest problem is lack of space!
Check these photos to see how much easier is to fit 4M50 in a cruiser than my van...







compare this van with Cruiser!!!! And this is a small 4M40 (2800cc),the smallest canter engine.Imagine a 4D34 fitted in there1

(sorry if im off topic)

 

[Fromage]

The criteria were all pretty much covered by the others, it is an inexpensive swap that uses a proven engine and it allows the use of the 450-43LE trans, which is a beast. The Isuzu engine would be great as well but it's much larger and the starter is a big hurdle.

The engine fits into a left hand drive 80 series better than just about anything else (4BD1t etc) since the exhaust is on the correct side already and the turbo is far away from the pedals and master cylinder.

The engine used is a 4D34T, which is rated at 145 hp on the version I am using. It has more than enough power, I am quite happy with it.

 

[cody c]

Nice Job! just read the entire thread. Picked up a 99 FE-HD with a 4D34-3AT3A and an auto. Considering putting the whole deal in my 68 galaxie wagon that currently gets 8 mpg


Whats your cruiser weigh? I have dreams of 25 mpg and endless free waste veggy oil for a cross country trip or two

That wagon is sweet, I had a friend who had a 69 sport satellite, kind of like a 4 door charger, yours kind of brings back some memories.

 

[Paul Andrews]

The criteria were all pretty much covered by the others, it is an inexpensive swap that uses a proven engine and it allows the use of the 450-43LE trans, which is a beast. The Isuzu engine would be great as well but it's much larger and the starter is a big hurdle.

The engine fits into a left hand drive 80 series better than just about anything else (4BD1t etc) since the exhaust is on the correct side already and the turbo is far away from the pedals and master cylinder.

The engine used is a 4D34T, which is rated at 145 hp on the version I am using. It has more than enough power, I am quite happy with it.

Hi,
I would like to congratulate you on your engine swap, well done. Just wondering if I could borrow your brain as I have a 2005 4D34-3AT3B with 5 speed manual box. Comes standard in Aussie Canter, I also have all wiring looms plus computer etc. I wish to swap this into a 1993 24v Mitsubishi Canter (non electronic). I wish to change from 24v to 12 v. This way I can use standard starter motor, alternator etc. One of my concerns is the 1993 instrument cluster (I wish to use the standard 1993 cluster, as it is 24v, what do you think). I have spoken to a lot of auto electricians about this and the reply is "good luck"
So where did you find wiring diagrams? How did you determine which wires to take out of the loom? As the standard loom has ABS, electric windows, etc. My 1993 truck has none of these extra flash bits. So do you need to re-write the computer once these extra things are disconnected?
I have read your posts on the engine swap many times. Any help would be muchly appreciated. (My missus says I need more than help)
Cheers
Paul

 

[Fromage]

Another long overdue update.

I had a weird experience relating to compression on the #4 cylinder. It had always had slightly lower compression than the others. Since it ran well, I had put off addressing it. This spring, I found myself with some time and a few bucks, so I pulled the head off and found that the top compression ring was broken, snapped clean in half at the midpoint. The bore wasn’t damaged in any way, but the piston ring land was pretty hammered. I put a new piston and ring set into that cylinder, and it made a huge difference. The mileage improved, oil consumption is now non-existent, and it idles smoother. I’m shocked that the thing ran so well with a broken ring, and that the compression numbers (4 was about 15% lower than the other cylinders) were so close.

Serious looking oil-cooled piston:



As far as what happened, it has to be pre-existing damage. The engine had always had the lower compression issue, and I’ve never used ether or other starting fluids on it that could have damaged it.

I’ve also been working on tying up a few loose ends. I wasn’t happy with my original radiator and charge air cooler mount, so I made a new one. I also cleaned up the underhood while I had the head off.



I also swapped out the original 1FZ mounts for Anchor 2469 mounts used on a lot of 4BT swaps, and it’s now much smoother at idle, and I bumped the timing to 13BTDC (testing with a timing light pulse adapter), which made it a little louder but much easier to start when cold. I’m now getting an easy 20 mpg, the truck runs well and starts easily, and is just a pleasure to drive.

The next thing to address is the stock turbo. I am really starting to think that it’s too small and restrictive for the size of engine.

From what I have read online, it is a TD05H-14B, but the hot side housing port size is unlike any other similar turbo. When I dismantled it, I took a picture and the exhaust flange port is extremely small:



It looks like a T3 flange but with a tiny port. I looked at the turbo to try and determine if I could enlarge the passage, but the turbo is built with this same small restrictive opening. I can enlarge the manifold without any issues, but the turbo just doesn’t have any meat to it.

The turbo also seems to fall flat on its face after 15-18 PSI, even with the wastegate disconnected. It will spool instantaneously, but seems like it is running out of steam of higher RPMs. When it is very cold out, like *-20 or so, I can see 22 PSI or boost, and the engine has way more power. It might be inefficient intercooling as the cooler is partially obscured by the bumper and I am not running a shroud at the moment to pull air through the cores. I’m almost done building one.

Superhatch, who had a very similar conversion that he’s since sold, had added another larger turbo to build a set of compounds for the engine. It seemed to fix the issue, and give him 30-35 PSI of boost. I would like to stick to one turbo just for underhood space issues. He’d done a compressor upgrade with lacklustre results, but I think that the hot side might be the restriction, just based on a gut feeling. All the other similar sized engine and turbo combinations (4BT, 4BD1T etc) have a much larger manifold opening and the hot side seems much larger.The TD05H-14B map that is floating around online may not be the same as this turbo, as the other 14Bs seem to have a completely different hot side casting.

 

[Dougal]

Some turbo sizing information you need to read: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?26542-4BD1T-Turbo-Sizing-and-Performance-Prediction
Your engine is the same displacement so it's all relevant. Your only really good T3 flange option is the Holset HX30 with the 6cm exhaust housing.

 

[Fromage]

That is a great thread. I've gone through it a few times now.

I'm not sure if it is a T3 flange, I'll measure it, but it looks like the TD04HL-19T would be a great low buck way to go, I could find a junkyard Volvo turbo, adapt the flange and change out the compressor.

What makes no sense is that the turbo on the truck right now is a TD05, and should be larger than a TD04HL, but the compressor on this current turbo is tiny.

How do you feel about the manifold area, with respect to restriction? The nice thing about the current manifold is that I could mill out the flange to meet the volvo/saab pattern very easily.

 

[Fromage]

More info. I went rooting through Superhatch's old thread and here is the info I found regarding the stock turbo:

"Stock compressor is an MHI 14B Wheel with a 1.695" inducer and a 2.285 exducer.
TD05H turbine wheel with a 1.930" exducer and a 2.200" inducer."

The tags are faded on my turbo so I really have no idea what's going on, except both Superhatch and I definitely found that this turbo was a bottleneck. I wonder if it's just a TD05, with a small A/R and small intake tract volume to keep velocity up? It definitely boosts lightning quick, it will got from 0-12 in a second.

 

[Dougal]

That is a great thread. I've gone through it a few times now.

I'm not sure if it is a T3 flange, I'll measure it, but it looks like the TD04HL-19T would be a great low buck way to go, I could find a junkyard Volvo turbo, adapt the flange and change out the compressor.

What makes no sense is that the turbo on the truck right now is a TD05, and should be larger than a TD04HL, but the compressor on this current turbo is tiny.

How do you feel about the manifold area, with respect to restriction? The nice thing about the current manifold is that I could mill out the flange to meet the volvo/saab pattern very easily.

The easy way for manufacturers to keep boost down is with a big turbine. Keep in mind these trucks were likely geared to turn around 3,000rpm all day and only required about 12psi boost there, where we are gearing more for 2000rpm and want ~20psi there.
The small compressor was likely sized to be right in it's best efficiency spot at that 3,000rpm cruise. The 4BD1T/4BD2T original turbos were: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?32953-Reverse-Engineering-the-freefloating-4BD1T-4BD2T-Turbo.&highlight=reverse engineering
While the 4BD1T/4BD2T used garrett turbos they also ran a larger compressor and smaller turbine than most swappers want.

I would fill those existing holes with threaded rod (cast iron similar to the manifold) then drill/tap and port to suit your next turbo.

 

[Fromage]

That makes sense.

The ECU seems to rely on boost pressure to a high degree to determine the max fuel rate. When it's cold out and the air is dense, I can get the boost to increase from 5PSI at cruise in OD (1850 rpms) to about 15PSI by laying into it, and the fuel rate will increase and it's off to the races. Now, in warm, thin air weather, I get caught in a black hole where I cannot get the boost to increase enough to increase the fuel rate, and downshifting into 3rd just shoots the turbo out of its efficiency range and it feels like the engine is pulling air through a straw. On one end I am fighting a compressor wheel that seems very restrictive, on the other a very unresponsive turbine.

One way around this would be to change the fueling parameters, but it works so well in the winter that I suspect that a better turbo will go a long way.

Now to find an unsuspecting Volvo...

 

[Fromage]

One last question Dougal - I read through the Aulro thread on 4BD1T stuff. It looks like several are interested in the TD04HL-19T but no one has actually tested it. Any feedback yet? Also, I'll likely be running at lower fueling rates than what you guys are getting with your 4BD1Ts (until I start messing with the computer). It sounds like a good match all around, are you concerned that it might be too big to run efficiently a reduced fueling rates?

Thank you to yourself and John (Bush65) for documenting all this information online.

 

[Dougal]

One last question Dougal - I read through the Aulro thread on 4BD1T stuff. It looks like several are interested in the TD04HL-19T but no one has actually tested it. Any feedback yet? Also, I'll likely be running at lower fueling rates than what you guys are getting with your 4BD1Ts (until I start messing with the computer). It sounds like a good match all around, are you concerned that it might be too big to run efficiently a reduced fueling rates?

Thank you to yourself and John (Bush65) for documenting all this information online.

We've got a couple of Aussies running it now on originally non turbo 4BD1 engines. No detailed feedback, other than very quick response and plenty of boost. They won't be pushing big power/torque numbers as they're running landrover gearboxes and the strong pulses from these Isuzu's can cause problems. Ideally they need a much heavier flywheel to protect the box.

The TD04HL-19T is a turbo I'll be fitting myself at some stage. My calcs show it should be very good at low load and indeed at altitude.

 

[Fromage]

So, one of the lads at work is a Volvo enthusiast and had a TD04HL. It's now mine. I now need to come up with a compressor housing and impeller.

Any recommendations? The Kinugawa housing upgrade kits are all over Ebay and I have seen them referenced in other threads. Are they any good?

I didn't realize Wheelingnoob (Jeremy) was using the same turbo and compressor upgrade, I'll see what he is using.

 

[Dougal]

So, one of the lads at work is a Volvo enthusiast and had a TD04HL. It's now mine. I now need to come up with a compressor housing and impeller.

Any reccomendations? The Kinugawa housing upgrade kits are all over ebay and I have seen them referenced in other threads. Are they any good?

I didn't realise Wheelingnoob (Jeremy) was using the same turbo and compressor upgrade, I'll see what he is using.

Kinugawa stuff that I have bought (not compressor wheels though) has all been good quality. I did buy a supposedly "genuine" 19T compressor wheel off another vendor on Ebay and it was rubbish. The lowest quality wheel I've ever seen with nothing to support the claim of "genuine". Got a ~80% refund on that one.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

I got a Kinugawa cover and wheel, quality looks good. No visible defects
but will not know for sure till I have it running at 20+ psi.

This is the cover I got along wit there cast 19T compressor wheel.

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/mitsubishitd04h-13tturbochargercompressorhousing-1-1.aspx

I also have one of there actuators and it looks good as well. Again no actual experience running it yet.





...via IH8MUD app

 

[Fromage]

Ok, that's quite reasonable then. I guess that was where you got the rebuild kit as well?

I finally measured the flange on the Fuso manifold and it's not a T3 flange, it's much narrower and deeper, but that will work well with the Volvo turbo. I'll have to do some machining but it should be a pretty easy swap. Since it's a TD05 right now, it looks like the oil drain and oil feed are compatible.

I see that Wheelingnoob is running water lines, I don't really want to if I can help it, what's the consensus? The TD05 is oil cooled... Can I just cap them with threaded plugs?

I've been doing some reading and research on the injection pump, to see if there are any ways to squeeze more fuel out of it without having to crack the computer. I think I have an idea. This pump has barrels like a P7100 pump that are rotated to adjust the volume per stroke. The old trick with P7100s is to rotate the barrels as far as they will go clockwise, which moves the spill ports away from the plunger void, and gives you a longer fuel stroke per injection event, and more fuel.

I wasn't sure if this would also affect the pump timing (due to the MD-TICS system) and I couldn't find an answer online, so I totally dismantled my spare/core pump and found that it does not. So, one of the options is to pull the pump off, and have an injection pump place rotate the plungers and balance fuel flow volumes. I found a spec for the Zexel MD-TICS pump for the 6D16, and the maximum rack position is to be set to 120cc of fuel/1000, and from what I am seeing, there is usually a lot of angle left over. The only possible downside is I am not sure if the pump electronics will "freak out" at having to back the rack up further to get to the idle position, or worse, that there won't be enough travel...

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Ok, that's quite reasonable then. I guess that was where you got the rebuild kit as well?

I actually got a OEM MHI rebuild kit on EBay it was a genuine kit. Cost about $80 shipped. I would recommend getting Kinugawa's TD04 high boost thrust washer, I plan to change mine.


...via IH8MUD app

 

[Fromage]

Hi,
I would like to congratulate you on your engine swap, well done. Just wondering if I could borrow your brain as I have a 2005 4D34-3AT3B with 5 speed manual box. Comes standard in Aussie Canter, I also have all wiring looms plus computer etc. I wish to swap this into a 1993 24v Mitsubishi Canter (non electronic). I wish to change from 24v to 12 v. This way I can use standard starter motor, alternator etc. One of my concerns is the 1993 instrument cluster (I wish to use the standard 1993 cluster, as it is 24v, what do you think). I have spoken to a lot of auto electricians about this and the reply is "good luck"
So where did you find wiring diagrams? How did you determine which wires to take out of the loom? As the standard loom has ABS, electric windows, etc. My 1993 truck has none of these extra flash bits. So do you need to re-write the computer once these extra things are disconnected?
I have read your posts on the engine swap many times. Any help would be muchly appreciated. (My missus says I need more than help)
Cheers
Paul

Hi Paul,

Sorry for taking so long to answer. One thing I would look into is that some Aussie Canters are actually 24V. When I bought glow plugs for my engine, all the glow plugs available were 24V and I had to look very hard to find 12V ones. I have seen 4D34T computers in both 12 and 24V, so I am pretty sure that 12V was for North America. As far as wiring, this is the biggest downside to the swap. I bought a Mitsubishi wiring manual on ebay, and it was invaluable, I don't think one could really do this without the manual. The computer runs the engine only, and it's pretty easy to determine what to keep and what to toss. From the vehicle wiring harness I kept the gauge wiring, senders, starter motor solenoid wire, transmission related stuff, etc, and removed the equivalent wiring from the engine wiring. It is slow and methodical but not really hard.

I would approach it by leaving as many of the original vehicle systems in place and just running the wiring you need for the engine. I was worried at the start that the looms would be intertwined but all the accessories and other systems are on separate wiring systems and there is really little interference. The transmission was probably the worst part since I had to contend with factory Toyota wiring for the shift position sensors and Mitsu wiring for the computer. You don't have that issue with a 5 speed.

 

[Paul Andrews]

More info. I went rooting through Superhatch's old thread and here is the info I found regarding the stock turbo:

"Stock compressor is an MHI 14B Wheel with a 1.695" inducer and a 2.285 exducer.
TD05H turbine wheel with a 1.930" exducer and a 2.200" inducer."

The tags are faded on my turbo so I really have no idea what's going on, except both Superhatch and I definitely found that this turbo was a bottleneck. I wonder if it's just a TD05, with a small A/R and small intake tract volume to keep velocity up? It definitely boosts lightning quick, it will got from 0-12 in a second.

Hi Fromage,
thanks for responding. The turbo on your engine would be a TD05-3 part number #ME015065. These are the numbers of my 2005 Aussie 4D34T, I am pretty sure yours will be the same.
Cheers
Paul