High-Output Alternator Options for 80 Series Land Cruisers (2 Viewers)

[jaymar]

Alternator tech has vastly improved since these rigs were made. Time was, you had to drag race to get good numbers from an aftermarket alt, and most of them were overwound and subject to overheating and burnout. But you CAN now get more power in a standard-size case, AT low rpms. And a LOT more power in a bigger case. After exploring the Photoman bracket kit option (currently unavailable but on @NLXTACY's to-do list), I resolved to simplify and seek a reliable bolt-up with a good rep and no bracket needed. Turns out the best place to research this is not in 4WD forums, but car audio forums frequented by the kind of folk who drive speakers on wheels, and trigger seismographs at nearby research stations. They're also used in racing; the company does something like 90% of SCORE trucks and buggies. And a whole bunch of 1VD-FTV Cruisers in the Middle East (120-degree ambient).

Anyway, these are not your grandfather's alternators. Looks like I've landed on one of these, below. The pages just went live today; I've pasted spec sheets as well. When looking at the power curves, remember these numbers reflect ALTERNATOR rpms, not engine rpms. Ballpark, figure that's 3:1--so 2,000 alt rpms = 666 engine rpms.

180 Amp HP High Output Alternator (Toyota Land Cruiser 4.5L)

Our HP series high-output alternators are the ultimate upgrade when you need the absolute biggest and most sophisticated high output alternator on the planet. All of our HP series alternators are designed for extreme reliability. When you need the most extreme idle output with the most...

www.dcpowerinc.com

270 Amp XP High Output Alternator (Toyota Land Cruiser 4.5L)

Our XP series high-output alternators are the ultimate upgrade when you need the absolute biggest and most sophisticated high output alternator on the planet. All of our XP series alternators are designed for one purpose, brute force idle output. When you need the most extreme idle output with...

www.dcpowerinc.com

 

[Road Apple]

I have a 280 amp alternator sitting on the shelf looking for a home. Too much power for my current build. It needs a home. PM me if interested.

 

[LandLocked93]

I don't get the output numbers. The output it suggests @ idle would fry everything apart from a very expensive, high charge rate battery that is fully discharged.
There must be some measurement mistake.

edit: unless these are full-load numbers?

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Alternator tech has vastly improved since these rigs were made. Time was, you had to drag race to get good numbers from an aftermarket alt, and most of them were overwound and subject to overheating and burnout. But you CAN now get more power in a standard-size case, AT low rpms. And a LOT more power in a bigger case. After exploring the Photoman bracket kit option (currently unavailable but on @NLXTACY's to-do list), I resolved to simplify and seek a reliable bolt-up with a good rep and no bracket needed. Turns out the best place to research this is not in 4WD forums, but car audio forums frequented by the kind of folk who drive speakers on wheels, and trigger seismographs at nearby research stations. They're also used in racing; the company does something like 90% of SCORE trucks and buggies. And a whole bunch of 1VD-FTV Cruisers in the Middle East (120-degree ambient).

Anyway, these are not your grandfather's alternators. Looks like I've landed on one of these, below. The pages just went live today; I've pasted spec sheets as well. When looking at the power curves, remember these numbers reflect ALTERNATOR rpms, not engine rpms. Ballpark, figure that's 3:1--so 2,000 alt rpms = 666 engine rpms.

180 Amp HP High Output Alternator (Toyota Land Cruiser 4.5L)

Our HP series high-output alternators are the ultimate upgrade when you need the absolute biggest and most sophisticated high output alternator on the planet. All of our HP series alternators are designed for extreme reliability. When you need the most extreme idle output with the most...

www.dcpowerinc.com

View attachment 3293186

270 Amp XP High Output Alternator (Toyota Land Cruiser 4.5L)

Our XP series high-output alternators are the ultimate upgrade when you need the absolute biggest and most sophisticated high output alternator on the planet. All of our XP series alternators are designed for one purpose, brute force idle output. When you need the most extreme idle output with...

www.dcpowerinc.com

View attachment 3293188

I have a 280 amp alternator sitting on the shelf looking for a home. Too much power for my current build. It needs a home. PM me if interested.

.

how come 90A amps combined with a TOYOTA OEM TRU-START battery is not sufficient in some way ?

both with a single or the DUAL batteries option / modification ...



matt

 

[jaymar]

I don't get the output numbers. The output it suggests @ idle would fry everything apart from a very expensive, high charge rate battery that is fully discharged.
There must be some measurement mistake.

edit: unless these are full-load numbers?

Max available amps @ given rpm. You're not actually seeing that unless the system demands it. Like a gallon of water with a siphon in it. You suck a pint a second, you get a pint; you suck fifty gallons a second, you get 50 gallons. Except this doesn't run empty.

 

[Road Apple]

.

how come 90A amps combined with a TOYOTA OEM TRU-START battery is not sufficient in some way ?

both with a single or the DUAL batteries option / modification ...



matt

For high power demands…my initial intent for the high output amp was for multiple stereo amps.

 

[jaymar]

.

how come 90A amps combined with a TOYOTA OEM TRU-START battery is not sufficient in some way ?

both with a single or the DUAL batteries option / modification ...



matt

Depends on what you're running. Let's forget about lights, fridge, air, computers, charging ports, radios, cams, inverter, battery management system etc.--few of which anyone was running in the 90s. Let's just look at the winch. A Warn Zeon 12 draws 66A WITH NOTHING ON THE CABLE. 141A with 2k lbs on the line. 272A with 6k lbs. Some of our rigs weight 7k. And this isn't accounting for the "stuck factor." 8k lbs sucks 335A. And suddenly 270 is seeming rather modest.

The mechanical demands of all-terrain navigation have not changed since these rings were made, which is why the Land Cruiser is still an awesome overland and off-road vehicle. The electrical demands many of us make on these rigs have changed enormously, and we need to employ updated technology to satisfy those demands. You wouldn’t slap on 40-inch tires and not upgrade the steering system—including that sector shaft and Pitman arm—right? This is no different. Except the electrical demands are probably more like 100-inch tires, comparatively speaking…

 

[jaymar]

For high power demands…my initial intent for the high output amp was for multiple stereo amps.

Something like this, maybe...?

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Depends on what you're running. Let's forget about lights, fridge, air, computers, charging ports, radios, cams, inverter, battery management system etc.--few of which anyone was running in the 90s. Let's just look at the winch. A Warn Zeon 12 draws 66A WITH NOTHING ON THE CABLE. 141A with 2k lbs on the line. 272A with 6k lbs. Some of our rigs weight 7. And this isn't accounting for the "stuck factor." 8k lbs sucks 335A. And suddenly 270 is seeming rather modest...

ok , thanks

kool ! nice tech. here ...

so , a what if scenario here :

- 3FE FJ62 or FJ80 ( 80 weighs more i assume ? right ? )

- TOYOTA group 27 tru-start single battery set-up fully charged , and in good working order ..

- all other related battery cables / main winch power cables to the battery / connection points all in top possible good condition and working order etc ....

- how long approximately in minutes i guess , unless there is another way to say it , like WIND and UN-WIND time , could you expect to have going on taking into account no load un-winding & either your own or another 62 /80 weight factor at play during the WIND mode in efforts to retrieve or un-stuck your self or another on a trail etc ... ?

then ..........


- how much additional said Time approximately would be added by the use of a 2nd battery setup same in kind as above ?




matt

 

[LINUS]

Where are we at in $$$ for these?

I‘ve had Photoman bracket & IIRC the 185amp (???) -Sequoia alt in hand awhile, but my stocker alt just died this last month. (hobby rig / Tundra is my DD)

The only thing I’m not sure on is needing non-OE size belts. IDK / need to look at belt size.

A high output alt that does the stock size belts is attractive to me.

 

[jaymar]

ok , thanks

kool ! nice tech. here ...

so , a what if scenario here :

- 3FE FJ62 or FJ80 ( 80 weighs more i assume ? right ? )

- TOYOTA group 27 tru-start single battery set-up fully charged , and in good working order ..

- all other related battery cables / main winch power cables to the battery / connection points all in top possible good condition and working order etc ....

- how long approximately in minutes i guess , unless there is another way to say it , like WIND and UN-WIND time , could you expect to have going on taking into account no load un-winding & either your own or another 62 /80 weight factor at play during the WIND mode in efforts to retrieve or un-stuck your self or another on a trail etc ... ?

then ..........


- how much additional said Time approximately would be added by the use of a 2nd battery setup same in kind as above ?




matt

Dunno. Personally, I don't care, as I plan to run a hydraulic winch. (Also, math is not my best subject. ) IMO electric winches don't justify their existence--why put that insane drain on the system when you can just go hydraulic. Sure, the engine has to be running, so what? If it's not, chances are I've got bigger problems than running a winch. YMMV.

 

[jaymar]

Where are we at in $$$ for these?

I‘ve had Photoman bracket & IIRC the 185amp (???) -Sequoia alt in hand awhile, but my stocker alt just died this last month. (hobby rig / Tundra is my DD)

The only thing I’m not sure on is needing non-OE size belts. IDK / need to look at belt size.

A high output alt that does the stock size belts is attractive to me.

I'm assuming (but do not know for certain) that the stock belts will fit these alts. Will post up when I get a chance to test fitment. As to the Tundra alt, I've been told the alt itself is a really tight fit with the Photoman kit. Alt prices appear on the pages linked above.

More generally speaking, I've been told the Photoman kit ran $200 15 years ago. I doubt the next incarnation will cost less. So, a bolt-in means another $200 to spend on the alternator itself, and less fuss to make it work. That's my thinking, anyway.

Now, if you can get your hands on a good-shape Sequoia or Tundra alt on the cheap, maybe that changes the equation for you. Me, I'd rather go with a new DC and an extra 100+ amps. Amps are like guns. And in the immortal words of Clarence Worley: "If there's one thing this last week has taught me, it's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it."

 

[ToyotaMatt]

For high power demands…my initial intent for the high output amp was for multiple stereo amps.

you will need to upgrade to the dual batteries option for sure with those multiple stereo amps ....

how many amps does each amp draw on your multiple stereo amps many amps drawing system .......

 

[landtank]

For me a bigger alternator comes down to idling output. And that’s due to static draw on the system.

So I’m installing an air to water intercooler which will have a pump running constantly. That pump draws 20amps. A good rule of thumb is that an alternator 's output at idle is 60% of it's rated output. So the stock 90A at idle is 54A and the 140A I installed is 84A at idle. Adding other accessories such as an upgraded radio and GMRS I'm pretty much back at a stock charging ability with room for the occasional use of an air compressor, all while idling.

I often see how people buy a bracket and install a bigger alternator and am so please at their success and years of operation. These are people who likely never needed to upgrade in the first place as they aren't asking anything more than what the stock system was supplying.

On a recent thread someone stated that he bought a bracket and installed a brand new Sequoia alternator to only have it die in 2 years. And then replaced that alternator with another brand new Sequoia unit and that one died in 2 years. He then went back to the stock alternator and it's bee trouble free. I'm thinking he did like most and just dropped in the alternator but didn't upgrade the associated wiring to properly handle the output. He's likely someone who actually should have an upgraded alternator just installed properly.

It was mentioned about the dead battery scenario and this should be considered. Jumping a dead battery means the engine is starting up cold and will rev to 1200rpms. Make sure your setup can handle whatever the Amp output is at that rpm. Thinking that your OK with these monster alternators because you will never ask them for their full potential is naive.

 

[Road Apple]

you will need to upgrade to the dual batteries option for sure with those multiple stereo amps ....

how many amps does each amp draw on your multiple stereo amps many amps drawing system .......

When I bought the truck 12 years ago, my initial plans were unrealistic. After purchasing the high output alternator, I researched enough to realize it was way too much for my revised plans. Should have researched first !! Lesson learned.

Since my initial purchase I’ve put my time and money into making the truck “stop, run, go, reliable, and pretty.” I still have the stock LX head unit in the truck with upgraded speakers and no plans to upgrade further. Priorities changed a lot.

Years later I have upgraded the big 3 wires, installed dual batteries, winch, solar, frig, inverter, etc…but haven’t felt the need to upgrade the alternator.

 

[motormayhem]

@ToyotaMatt On post #4 of the below thread I posted a map of my trucks measured current draw vs measured alternator output (using the green curve to fully load the alt at lower speeds) at across the engine speed range. You can see the stock alternator doesn't make its 80A rating until about 2500 crank rpm. The truck itself out draws the alternator when the heater + high beams are on at lower speeds. That's usually not a problem since the engine speed isn't always low and the battery can make up for the mis-match and get re-charged when the engine speed is higher.

However, for my truck I ran into an issue last winter when rock crawling. It was cold so I had the heater blasting, it was night so I had the high beams + my front spots on (extra 20A draw). That put me on the green curve where I was out drawing the alternator below ~2500rpm. Since the trail I was on was a lot of low speed crawling the engine was running about 1500-2500 most of the time. After about 3-4 hours of this I started hearing the relays under the dash buzzing / clicking from low voltage when the engine dropped below ~1500rpm as the battery was moderately dis-charged since it couldn't keep up a low speed. Turning down the heater / low beams solved the issue and before I shut it down at camp I used the hand throttle to idle up at 2000rpm with the lights off for a bit to charge up the battery. Not a huge issue and the system was working as it was designed, but it certainly would have been nice to have closer to 80A output between 1000 and 2000rpm to cover my extra 20A on the system all the way down to idle.

The reason the current draw curves for the truck increase with engine speed is because as the alternator catches up, the voltage in the system increases from a bit below 13V to >13V. A little Ohm's Law (V=I*R) going on.

Measuring Alternator Output

Hi All, I am trying to measure the amperage output of my alternator. I have a clamp on amp meter and was measuring at the main fusible link. From doing some reading, however, it seems there may be two wires that connect to the output of the alternator? One that runs thru that "main" fusible link...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[jaymar]

For me a bigger alternator comes down to idling output. And that’s due to static draw on the system.

So I’m installing an air to water intercooler which will have a pump running constantly. That pump draws 20amps. A good rule of thumb is that an alternator 's output at idle is 60% of it's rated output. So the stock 90A at idle is 54A and the 140A I installed is 84A at idle. Adding other accessories such as an upgraded radio and GMRS I'm pretty much back at a stock charging ability with room for the occasional use of an air compressor, all while idling.

I often see how people buy a bracket and install a bigger alternator and am so please at their success and years of operation. These are people who likely never needed to upgrade in the first place as they aren't asking anything more than what the stock system was supplying.

On a recent thread someone stated that he bought a bracket and installed a brand new Sequoia alternator to only have it die in 2 years. And then replaced that alternator with another brand new Sequoia unit and that one died in 2 years. He then went back to the stock alternator and it's bee trouble free. I'm thinking he did like most and just dropped in the alternator but didn't upgrade the associated wiring to properly handle the output. He's likely someone who actually should have an upgraded alternator just installed properly.

It was mentioned about the dead battery scenario and this should be considered. Jumping a dead battery means the engine is starting up cold and will rev to 1200rpms. Make sure your setup can handle whatever the Amp output is at that rpm. Thinking that your OK with these monster alternators because you will never ask them for their full potential is naive.

Until the last few weeks, I knew zip about alternators. Now, I see old and newer ("hairpin") alternators as pretty much apples and oranges. A hairpin may put out 60-70% at idle, but I'm gonna say (based on input from a guy who's measured it) that you're lucky to see 30A from the stocker at idle. If all you're running is radio, lights, fuel injection, pumps, a/c etc., that'll do. If not, then maybe not.

But when we say "puts out" (and we all say that), it's actually misleading. The alt really only "puts out" what's demanded of it at any given time. So the 'amps at idle' rating is about what the alt is CAPABLE of generating on demand, rather than what it's ACTUALLY generating at any given moment. Because of that, there is no 'excess' amperage (or heat) being created at idle. Put another way, it’s not cranking out enough amps to run a winch when you’re not running a winch.

You do have to upgrade the ‘big three’ cables: alt pos to batt pos, batt ground to chassis, chassis ground to block.

 

[slow95z]

I did the jaguar (denso) upgrade and have been very happy. A little grinding on the bracket and extended the main power wire. It's plug and play with the harness. Might have had to extend the harness wires too, been a while. Stupid easy.

 

[landtank]

Until the last few weeks, I knew zip about alternators. Now, I see old and newer ("hairpin") alternators as pretty much apples and oranges. A hairpin may put out 60-70% at idle, but I'm gonna say (based on input from a guy who's measured it) that you're lucky to see 30A from the stocker at idle. If all you're running is radio, lights, fuel injection, pumps, a/c etc., that'll do. If not, then maybe not.

But when we say "put out" (and we all say that), it's actually misleading. The alt really only "puts out" what's demanded of it at any given time. So the 'amps at idle' rating is about what the alt is CAPABLE of generating on demand, rather than what it's ACTUALLY generating at any given moment. Because of that, there is no 'excess' amperage (or heat) being created at idle. Put another way, it’s not cranking out enough amps to run a winch when you’re not running a winch.

You do have to upgrade the ‘big three’ cables: alt pos to batt pos, batt ground to chassis, chassis ground to block.

What the alternator is able to put out is not misleading, hence the warning of a dead battery situation. And why do you feel a need to upgrade the ground to the block? The ground on the block is on the load side. Are you reading tech manuals or forum posts for information?

 

[jaymar]

I did the jaguar (denso) upgrade and have been very happy. A little grinding on the bracket and extended the main power wire. It's plug and play with the harness. Might have had to extend the harness wires too, been a while. Stupid easy.

What year the alt? Hairpins started showing up (as oem in cars) around 2012.