Upgrading stock alternator to 130/150 amp

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by Photoman, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. Photoman

    Photoman SILVER Star

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    In the hopes of eliminating any more confusion (mine) on this alternator conversion I will try to recap the story here. In hindsight I wish I had done this before when Brian (bjowett) turned the project over to me.

    Brian (bjowett) discovered the larger case 130/150 amp alternators would fit in the top stock mount bracket and found that the stock 80 pulley was a direct fit to the shaft keeping the correct alignment of the belts. Further he discovered the wiring was a direct crossover with one pin on the larger alternator not being used on the 80. He was going to have an adjustment bracket made and make it available to other members. For reasons, some months passed and he did not have a bracket. In the meantime I had made the conversion with a bracket I designed and machined up and made Brian aware of this. He felt at that time that it was better if I took over the project so members would have this available to them.

    So any questions, comments or thoughts posted in this thread I will realize are addressed to me about the bracket I designed and built, or about carrying this project forward. If I can answer any other questions about the conversion that are within the limits of my knowledge I will be glad to try. As the weather gets better I hope that some of those that have purchased brackets will get their installs done and can post up some pictures, tips, trials and tribulations on how the install went. So far two members that I know of have done the conversion and are up and running.

    Brackets and electrical connectors are still available. If interested PM or email me at photomanfzj80 at comcast.net.

    Thank for your understanding. Link to original thread.

    Bill
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
    RFB likes this.
  2. Photoman

    Photoman SILVER Star

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    I was asked a question about the rpm’s that the larger case 130/150 amp alternators would turn at with the stock pulley being used. The short answer is I don’t know. The larger case alternator comes with a ribbed pulley and the stock pulley is a grooved pulley. Crudely the stock pulley is larger than the ribbed pulley. This is meaningless though since the diameter of the drive (crank) pulley on the Tundra /Sequoia is not known. So to know whether the new large case alternator is spinning faster or slower would depend on the two drive/driven ratios; the ribbed one from the Tundra/Sequoia, and the grooved one from the stock 80. As a further complication in my estimation it would depend on the age of the belts and/or the condition of the pulleys. One worn groove pulley either the drive (crank) or the driven (alternator) and the ratio and rpm’s would change. One possible test could be if someone had a running Sequoia and an IR tach, the engine rpm’s could be recorded with the alternator pulley rpm’s; then the same thing could be done on a stock 80.That way at say 700 engine rpm’s on each vehicle the alternator rpm’s could be compared.

    Bill
     
  3. Photoman

    Photoman SILVER Star

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    From my understanding it should be noted that a higher amp alternator can take more horsepower to operate. In the case of this conversion I understand it would only take more horsepower from the stock amperage up to the amperage of the larger alternator. In other works both alternators take the same amount of horsepower to operate up to the stock alternators 80 amps. After that the larger alternator would take more horsepower. Keep in mind this depends on load. If the load is minimal with batteries charged up, then the amount of HP required on either alternator is minimal. I think the mathematical figures are somewhere around 1 HP for every 50 amps. This figure would need to be adjusted for friction losses etc.

    Bill
     
  4. RavenTai

    RavenTai

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    Bill got my bracket last week, just now got a chance to open up the package and have a look.

    Just gotta say beautiful work, I am looking it over and counting up the steps required to make that bracket and you put a lot into it,

    Nice job on the documentation that came with it also

    Now I need to find a proper alternator. is there any info in the other thread on what models/years we can find the 150 amp alternator? was it standard equip or optional?

    Thanks
    :beer:
     
  5. Photoman

    Photoman SILVER Star

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    Thanks RavenTai. I have been fortunate to receive many nice comments and I really appreciate it. I have learned a lot from the good folks here and tried to look at this as trying to give something back.

    What I did was go to www.car-part.com and put 2003 Sequoia in for the search. It then asks for either the 130 amp or the 150 amp model. I see either alternator was available from 2003 to 2007 in the results. The alternator model numbers are 27060-0F040 for the 130 amp and 27060-0F050 for the 150 amp. I would ask the place where you get one from to check this model number if you are looking for a particular model. I noticed that the 150 amp only comes up listed for the Sequoia whereas the 130 amp comes up with the Tundra so it could be this was the standard alternator for each of those models. If CDan sees this and is feeling better maybe he could clarify. HTH
    On the install guidelines, I did put up a little canned web page at photomanfzj80@comcast.net that has a pdf with a few more pictures etc. on the install.

    I still have some of the bracket kits left but now am not making any more.

    Bill
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2008
  6. RavenTai

    RavenTai

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    Cool found 2 in north Alabama, gonna try to raise them on the phone later on if they are open on Saturdays.

    Am I looking at this right, is 90% back of the main part milled to 3 different step heights? were this another industry I would call it chem milled. that was not the easy way out, no cutting corners here. :)
     
  7. Photoman

    Photoman SILVER Star

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    Yes, in this last design, I milled the back to 4 different thicknesses. IIRC the original bracket is approx. 175 thousandths inches thick. I made the part of the bracket that is bent and has the oval slot milled in, approx. 185 thousandths inches thick for extra strength. I milled the notch in the bracket where the bend is to keep it from cracking when I bent it on the press. The bracket body thickness is approx. what the original was. I milled in the radius for the lower alternator mount to accommodate any differences in the Denso alternator mount length. This probably was not necessary as Denso seems to have held pretty good tolerances. Then I milled in the flat where the new third bolt goes into the timing cover case. I tig welded on the 8 x 1.25 nut for the adjusting arm to try to stay with metric. The adjusting nut I had to mill down to minimum thickness and drill and tap. This was to keep the lower bolt head from sticking out into the belts. It probably would not be a problem but I was concerned that down the road when the belts got worn and the adjustment was out all the way; the belts might whip and be able to hit the bolt head. Same reason for the thin stainless steel washer. By the way that long adjusting bolt is stainless steel too so should last a long time and should not rust into the nut as easily. I machined the adjusting arm that has the slot in it, with a round extrusion to ride on the radius on the bracket and to help keep the spacing for tightening with the lower alternator mount. Grind, deburr, sandblast, powder coat, clean and re tap all threaded holes, assemble and good to go. Simple as Mud.
    Good luck with the conversion and let us know how it goes. Just in case, the changeover should just be a bolt on but the big "B" terminal wire size should be increased and a suitable fuse added to replace the fusible link.

    Sorry for the long post.

    Bill
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2008
  8. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    :crybaby::crybaby::crybaby::crybaby:
     
  9. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    I have one still new in the original packing. I just need to bump this thread a few times over the next six months and cash in on the only one left available :cool:
     
  10. Godwin

    Godwin Resident Herpetologist SILVER Star

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    These guys Grahams Auto are just south of Birmingham, AL. I picked up a 130 amp alternator from them for $70-75.
     
  11. MaddBaggins

    MaddBaggins Remember the KnightRider!

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    Just finished this mod. I was replacing the original radiator as it had sprung a small leak about 6 months ago. I figured while I had the rad out this mod would be a snap. It was. Bill's bracket worked quite well. Got the whole damn thing back together and started it up. THE FREAKIN 2006 Tundra 130amp alt I bought DOESN"T CHARGE!!!.
    Double and triple checked all connections and put a meter on the alt. It does not work. I knew I should have found a way to check it before install. I got it from car-part.com. Hopefully I can get my money back.

    So, I yanked it out and put the original back in. Works like a charm.

    One observation about the larger alt. It's a bitch to get out of there with the radiator in place. I had the battery tray removed and still needed to pull the upper rad hose and remove the pulley from the alt before I could force it out past the fan shroud and over the steering lines. The original went back in rather easy comparatively.

    I think I will abandon the 130amp upgrade. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Thanks for the bracket Bill. Damn nice quality item!! If anyone wants one cheap, I have one. The connector, however, I buggered it up a bit and tossed it.
     
  12. slamd58

    slamd58

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    Dibs on the bracket if the price is right. MaddBaggins just sent you a PM
     
  13. NLXTACY

    NLXTACY Wits' End Supporting Vendor

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    Madd/Landtank, I am interested in getting the bracket. When I saw that Photoman was taking over this project, I "ASSUUUUUMED" he was gonna be making more brackets and retiring early off the sales. Guess not.

    Photoman, assuming I can get my hands on the bracket, any chance on still being to get the instructions and plug? Also, any word on whether the vehicles stock wiring can handle the load without an issue now that there are a few installations and time has passed?
     
  14. NLXTACY

    NLXTACY Wits' End Supporting Vendor

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    Sorry Photoman, I got ahead of myself, just downloaded the PDF from your site :p
     
  15. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    The connector is no problem. I can supply them. Bill may have more connectors than remaing brackets, you should check with him first.
     
  16. IBCRUSN

    IBCRUSN

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    Before you do something rash take the unit to a "real" alternator shop and have them take a look at it. I was very much in the same boat with the 150A unit I had, it wouldn't make any more than 100-120A. I realize that's still more than what yours is putting out but I figured there was a defect in mine as well.

    You're not kidding!! For those that haven't gotten around to installing their bracket and alternator yet removing the upper hose helps. If possible spend the couple bucks and purchase the gasket for the upper outlet tube from the head to radiator (under & aft of the distributor) then you'll have all kinds of room. If you're unlucky enough perform the install with either the radiator out or in the process of fixing a HG.

    Also, while having your alternator tested at said shop inquire about a smaller pulley. It will aid in getting the belts on and increase the output of the alternator at idle and low trail speeds.

    I've got a couple thousand miles on mine since the install and it's totally transparent. I can't thank Bill & Brian enough for working together and putting out a top notch bracket. :clap:

    It looks like this will be a limited edition mod for those that jumped on board. :smokin:

    NLXTACY,
    Without a doubt you'll definitely need to upgrade the wire from the alternator to the battery to be able to take full advantage of the power available.

    Alternator connector wiring in addition to the provided pdf.
     
  17. NLXTACY

    NLXTACY Wits' End Supporting Vendor

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    Awesome well I'm convinced and hopefully someone comes through with a bracket for this. I will be redoing all of the cables anyway when I do the dual battery so this is just one more :p
     
  18. Photoman

    Photoman SILVER Star

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    Rick,

    You may have some competition. Dan is sitting on one too. (So to speak)

    Bill
     
  19. NLXTACY

    NLXTACY Wits' End Supporting Vendor

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    You know, I'm really not picky, either one of those will do just fine.
     
  20. Photoman

    Photoman SILVER Star

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    I'm really sorry to hear about the bad alternator and all the work you had to do. Thanks very much for the compliment.

    As Dan mentioned a new connector can be had either from him or myself.

    Bill
     
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