Early 2F motor musings. (2 Viewers)

[Tigerstripe40]

So, I have a 1976 FJ40 that I bought in June of 2000.
Right after buying it, I bought a hard top from a local 'Cruiser shop and they said that the engine wasn't running right.
Long story short, it was in need of a rebuild.

I pulled the 2F out of the engine bay and took it to a machine shop in West Valley Utah that was recommended to me by Cruiser Outfitters. They had rebuilt many motors for Cruiser Outfitters over the years. We took it .020 over bore with new pistons and oil pump, had hardened valve seats installed with oversize valves to run unleaded fuel. I put a new rocker shaft and rocker bushings in.

The truck was desmogged when I got it, running a Man-a-Fre header, a non-USA dizzy with pertronix, and a Jim C rebuilt carb.

It was pretty good, power wise, though left a little be be desired on long hills. It wasn't winning any races, but, it's also not a race car... It is a strong, torquey motor with a lot of low end grunt.

It did leak a bit out of the side cover, and a few other places.
I ran this motor for 10 years as my DD and probably put 100,000 miles on it.

I replaced the oil pan in 2010 and when I did, I plastigagued the mains and everything was well within spec.
Its has had , maybe, 3000 miles put on it over the last 13 years, and the oil is the same as I had put in it in 2010 when I did the oil pan.

It was parked to do a SOA and as a result of the SOA, I'd noticed that the body was pretty much done.

At this point, I am tearing the truck apart to remediate rust, stretch the body 10" (planning on an aqualu stretched tub).

I also want to reseal the motor, and run a sniper EFI system on it.

Here is where things get interesting, at least.

A few years ago, the engine had ingested a 12mm nut and washer from the carb. The nut took out a spark plug. After I'd replaced the spark plug, the engine ran fine, but I never found the nut and washer, so I think it's still in one of the cylinder bores.

I am planning on pulling the head to investigate the nut/washer, but also to see the condition of the head. Maybe the nut/washer is still in there, maybe it went through and is in my muffler. Not sure yet.

I also hadn't run ZDDP in the motor at all since I rebuilt it (I didn't know I needed that until a few years ago) so I am wonderin if my cam or the lifters are chewed up.

Anyhow, I am goind to document my work on this in this thread.

I am debating whether or not to refresh this motor (new seals, paint, probably a head deck and valve job, maybe a p[ort and polish).
But if the damage is too much, I may be looking at another engine option (1FE-FE or 1HD-FT).

 

[Chungas Revenge]

I’ll just hop on in while you give it a think…

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

Sounds fun.

 

[ijonesinsp]

Looking forward to seeing the evidence...

 

[SteveH]

Looks like a worthy engine to start with. It will be interesting to see what you find.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Ran a compression check. Now, to be fair, the battery I am using to crank the motor is a 15 year old Optima Red Top (it says Made in Aurora Colorado in it, FWIW). I did put a full charge on it, but it's not cranking strong.

I'd get about 3-4 compression cycles and then the battery didn't want to turn the starter over.

Based on these numbers.... This isn't looking good.
Cyl 1: 55 PSI
Cyl 2: 55 PSI
Cyl 3: 40 PSI
Cyl 4: 42.5 PSI
Cyl 5: 42.5 PSI
Cyl 6: 40 PSI

Intake and exhaust manifolds are completely removed, as are all 6 spark plugs.
Pressure is holding, as I press the button and it releases pressure.

I'll pull the starting battery out of my tacoma and test again.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I just retested with a stronger battery.

Cyl 1: 137 PSI
Cyl 2: 128 PSI
Cyl 3: 125 PSI
Cyl 4: 110 PSI
Cyl 5: 105 PSI
Cyl 6: 130 PSI

Cylinders 4 and 5 are awefully low.

IIRC the block was bored .030 over when I rebuilt it back in 2000 timeframe.
This could be burnt valves.
Next up, I'll pull the head.

 

[ijonesinsp]

Wet or dry?

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Wet or dry?

Dry

 

[ijonesinsp]

Do you have a leak down tester? I know you are gonna pull the head anyway, but it would be interesting to see if the results are reliable.

 

[OlYellr]

I agree with the leak down - since the cylinders are consecutive, it could be just the cylinder gasket is damaged between the two -

Low limit from compression test IIRC is 114 psi and none more that 10% different. I would be making sure you really don't need to get into the block.

On mine - I had great compression and poor leak-down results that prompted my rebuild.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Did a leak down test this evening.
Air is coming out the exhaust valves on cylinder 3/4 and the intake valve on 5.
It's pretty bad on 4/5
Not so bad on 3.

But the motor has >100k miles on it since rebuild and IIRC it's recommended to do a Valve job every 60-80k on that motor.

No air coming out the water jacket, or oil dipstick. I'll be pulling the motor out of the chassis anyhow so I might as well tear it down more and plastigague the mains.

 

[1911]

Lugging the engine will burn exhaust valves; easy to do with an F/2F since they make so much torque low at low rpm.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Called the machine shop for a quote on the head. They said that they are iffy about getting parts for the head, specifically vavle guides and valves (though I see them available through SOR).

They said that if the bottom end needs rebuilding, that I'm going to need to find another block as they can't get parts for the 76 2F.

Not the news I was hoping for.

 

[Pighead]

Called the machine shop for a quote on the head. They said that they are iffy about getting parts for the head, specifically vavle guides and valves (though I see them available through SOR).

They said that if the bottom end needs rebuilding, that I'm going to need to find another block as they can't get parts for the 76 2F.

Not the news I was hoping for.

Funny, I went to visit my local machine shop to talk about getting a valve job done. I said I might like to use the chevy valves, he said no problem.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Funny, I went to visit my local machine shop to talk about getting a valve job done. I said I might like to use the chevy valves, he said no problem.

Yeah, I Was a bit thrown aback. This machine shop has done hundreds of F/2F/3Fs over the years.

 

[OlYellr]

I'd suggest the chevy valve route just finishing my 2f - I think I posted the link to the chevy valve info on this thread earlier. You can get oem intake valves still - just not oem exhaust.

Before you tear into the older 2f block - I suggest you secure pistons first. that will be the hardest to find (domed). I got my back in July 2023.

and/or - rebuild a 1981 or newer 2f - block uses flat pistons - still can get - will need chevy valves or the SOR (I don't know anything about those so can't comment).

I think - not 100% what I am about to say - you can do flat pistons in that block but you need the newer 2f head to go along with that (the head has more of an egg shape vs a circle).

I secured a 2f engine from a 1985 fj60 for not knowing I would find domed pistons.

 

[sogncab]

I've never verified this, but it's been said on here, the 2F was used forever in industrial applications. Maybe valves could be sourced from the forklift application?

I do love my swap, but if I were to do it again, the 1FZ would be high on my list.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I'd suggest the chevy valve route just finishing my 2f - I think I posted the link to the chevy valve info on this thread earlier. You can get oem intake valves still - just not oem exhaust.

Before you tear into the older 2f block - I suggest you secure pistons first. that will be the hardest to find (domed). I got my back in July 2023.

and/or - rebuild a 1981 or newer 2f - block uses flat pistons - still can get - will need chevy valves or the SOR (I don't know anything about those so can't comment).

I think - not 100% what I am about to say - you can do flat pistons in that block but you need the newer 2f head to go along with that (the head has more of an egg shape vs a circle).

I secured a 2f engine from a 1985 fj60 for not knowing I would find domed pistons.

I'm acutely aware of these issues, I've been following 2F rebuild threads for some time. IORC when I rebuilt back in 2000 getting domed pistons was hard.

JT Outfitters has kits including domed pistons for this motor, but I haven't verified availability yet.

I think if I'm going to source another motor and deal with shipping, a 1HD-FT moves up.

I've never verified this, but it's been said on here, the 2F was used forever in industrial applications. Maybe valves could be sourced from the forklift application?

I do love my swap, but if I were to do it again, the 1FZ would be high on my list.

I've been looking at the old links from LCML as that's where a lot of people were getting 2F rebuild kits, but many of those sources dried up a decade ago.

What swap did you do?

I'm considering:
1HD-FT
2UZ
1FZ-FE
LM7

I'd be interested in adapting to a TR4050 for the deep first gear, but haven't seen anything about that. TR4050 shares an adapter to the split case with thr AX15, and I know that the R150 can be used behind a 2UZ and 1FZ, and that's pretty similar to an AX15 so I wonder if the bellhousing side is the same as the TR4050.

 

[sogncab]

What swap did you do?

I have a Cummins R2.8 with a h55 and a split case.

Hindsight, going diesel, I'd be interested in a Cummins B3.3 so it's mechanically injected, and no electronics outside of the fuel cutoff and starter. And it'll run on a wider range of fuels.



Stretching the wheelbase will help as far as tranny options goes, but no matter what you're still going to have a short driveshaft. FJCO sells a bellhousing for the 1fz to a H55. I've read some threads on here, I don't remember what challenges that presents as far as clutch goes.


Inline sixes are just so smooth, and that 1fz has so much potential. Haltech, (I think), has an computer that will run it, then you can 100% desmog it and take out a bunch of fail points. That's a secondary driver of me wanting to convert to a part time transfer case and standard transmission in my 80. Ditch the Toyota engine management.