Early 2F motor musings. (1 Viewer)

[Tigerstripe40]

Inline sixes are just so smooth, and that 1fz has so much potential. Haltech, (I think), has an computer that will run it, then you can 100% desmog it and take out a bunch of fail points. That's a secondary driver of me wanting to convert to a part time transfer case and standard transmission in my 80. Ditch the Toyota engine management.

From my perspective, it seems that the Toyota engine management is 50% of what makes the Toyota motor 'better'. Lose that and a big part of the reliability goes away. I have looked at Haltech to run a 1FZ, 1GR, or 3UR in my Land Cruiser, and it seems that a Haltech system sufficient to run any of those is as much as I would pay for a junkyard LM7 and wiring harness, if not more. After buying and refreshing a Toyota block, I am looking at a new crate E-ROD LS3. Then It wouldn't be much of an issue to go TR4050, or H55F, or keep my SM420, or a slushbox.

That said, a 1FZ-FE, having 7 mains, needing machine work, and running a Haltech seems like it woudl be a great basis for a turbo project.

 

[sogncab]

From my perspective, it seems that the Toyota engine management is 50% of what makes the Toyota motor 'better'. Lose that and a big part of the reliability goes away. I have looked at Haltech to run a 1FZ, 1GR, or 3UR in my Land Cruiser, and it seems that a Haltech system sufficient to run any of those is as much as I would pay for a junkyard LM7 and wiring harness, if not more. After buying and refreshing a Toyota block, I am looking at a new crate E-ROD LS3. Then It wouldn't be much of an issue to go TR4050, or H55F, or keep my SM420, or a slushbox.

That said, a 1FZ-FE, having 7 mains, needing machine work, and running a Haltech seems like it woudl be a great basis for a turbo project.

Any time you can simplify a system, you're better off in my opinion, which raises reliability. Throw in 30 years off component age, and 30 years of tech improvements.

I think the 1FZ would do well with a little boost. But I think even naturally aspirated, a lot could be had, especially if it's off road. Mosley stroked one to a 5.3? I bet that's got a really nice torque curve. Modern turbos are amazing though.

A few of the supra kids have destroked the 1fz, spin the piss out of it, and put all the turbo to it and get bonkers numbers, but I'm sure it's not very fun on the street, never mind a trail.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Pulled the head off.
All of the valves, from this side, look good.
Looks like when I had the head rebuild 23 years ago, the machine shop used Toyota valves.
I wonder if there is carbon build up on the top of the valves, causing the leak I am getting when I do a Leak Down check...

 

[middlecalf]

I wonder if there is carbon build up on the top of the valves, causing the leak I am getting when I do a Leak Down check...

That would be my guess.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Considering the state of the head, I still see cross hatching in the cylinder bores and the engine spins smoothly by hand, I might keep this 2F a whiles longer. I'll likely have the head re-worked, with larger valves and do a port/polish job.

That said, I think now is the time to do something interesting, like a mild turbo project.

Looking at Specs for a 1HZ, it has very nearly the same power and power band as a 2F, so I am thinking it would be interesting to get a CT26 spec'd for a 1HZ in a low boost application, and build a manifold for it based on the header I just pulled off.

I found a direct bolt in CT26 clone for a 7MGTE powered supra for $250 shipped which I have gleaned from other threads may be a reasonable drop in.
Thoughts?

 

[NOSAJ]

I’m following along. I have a 2F (less the head) sitting in the shop not sure what I’m going to with. Jim said he had some domed pistons he got in recently. I posted in another thread trying to find out what 2F rebuild cost would be if getting it machined and doing the assembly yourself. After considering the cost the 2uz conversion and the mpgs with a manual tranny seems pretty appealing.

Jason

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I’m following along. I have a 2F (less the head) sitting in the shop not sure what I’m going to with. Jim said he had some domed pistons he got in recently. I posted in another thread trying to find out what 2F rebuild cost would be if getting it machined and doing the assembly yourself. After considering the cost the 2uz conversion and the mpgs with a manual tranny seems pretty appealing.

Jason

I have been gathering information for various swaps.
Really, rebuilding the 2F is going to be the most cost effective way to go, even with the machine shop doing the reassembly.

2UZ is a bit of work, especially if you're going to be using a H55F transmission behind it, as you need to modify the wiring harness and have the ECU reflashed for Manual usage, and to eliminate the immobilizer setup. You can pay to have that done, though.

I reached out to Dellow Conversions ot see about a bellhousing for a UZ → H55F and they haven't gotten back to me, but you do need to ship a ring gear to them to fit to a flywheel, then they ship it back. Thats going to take a LONG while.

You can get the H151/2/3/4 from a later model Land Cruiser Manual, but it's pretty long and its going to be hard to fit that all in a FJ40.

Honestly, I Think if I were going to do a 2UZ, I'd get a A750 automatic and have the ECU reflashed to eliminate the immobilizer set up. I have an A750 in my tacoma and love that transmission and I think a 2UZ→A750 would be a really great thing in a 40.

Looking at my spread sheet, nearly all of the options (used 1HD-FT, LS3, R2.8, 2UZ), except for the 2F rebuild +EFI are $20-$22k in parts (1HD-FT + parts to get it installed, new LS, new R2.8, low mileage 2UZ + modified wiring harness, and all with a new transmission).

 

[NOSAJ]

Build over in the 55 section says he has $5k in his pig. Did the work himself. With a r160f marlin built, northwest toys bellhousing, Off-road solutions wiring harnesses. Pretty amazing build.

 

[NOSAJ]

Thread '“It’s only an axle swap and a motor swap” aka AK2AL aka Dream Build'
Builds - “It’s only an axle swap and a motor swap” aka AK2AL aka Dream Build - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/its-only-an-axle-swap-and-a-motor-swap-aka-ak2al-aka-dream-build.1191428/

 

[OlYellr]

I’m following along. I have a 2F (less the head) sitting in the shop not sure what I’m going to with. Jim said he had some domed pistons he got in recently. I posted in another thread trying to find out what 2F rebuild cost would be if getting it machined and doing the assembly yourself. After considering the cost the 2uz conversion and the mpgs with a manual tranny seems pretty appealing.

Jason

I got the Jim C domed pistons this summer and built the engine myself Oct 2023 (1979 2f block and head)- In order from highest $$ to lowest $

Rough memory -

• about 2k to bore, magnaflux, deck, do the head, plug the oil galley, and make a plug for the exhaust (desmoged). address the thrust clearance on crank (main bearing issue), polish cam etc.
• Pistons were next most expensive item.
• Then all the OEM gaskets, thermostat, Lubraplate etc - $450 or so -
• Option - Powder coated Valve Cover, and ceracote manifolds.
• Option - I got new OEM head bolts (next are all tied with beer )
• Option - New OEM motor mounts
• Bearings - price varies depending where you get them (same brand). Got OEM cam.
• Option - New bolts for manifolds, lifter cover, oil pan. motor mounts,
• Beer
• Option - printed 2f engine manual
• Option - Remaflux manifold gasket (compresses more - extra assurance from a leak vs OEM).
• Option - I got a piston compressor from Summit for 30 or something like that - was so easy to get the pistons in.
• Doesn't include high-heat paint I used on the engine, or the hose to cut and put on rod bolts to keep from scratching the crank during install -

I did other powder coating (motor mount brackets, engine lifts, radiator/fan shroud, etc. while in it that far).

I will say was not a fan of the rings that came with the pistons (Grant). Hard to get oil ring on right, goofed on an install - removed piston, check before going again. ring were boogered up and Dead - no spare. I ended up getting some Hastings rings that was much easier. (pict of what a good one looks like and the one that broke - missing the metal tab that goes up on the outside of the magenta thing (and missing the magenta thing) - that is when I stopped using the cheap-ass sheet metal with a clap thing you get off Amazon for 10 bucks and ordered the piston compressor from Summit.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Build over in the 55 section says he has $5k in his pig. Did the work himself. With a r160f marlin built, northwest toys bellhousing, Off-road solutions wiring harnesses. Pretty amazing build.

I can't fin an R160F on marlins site, so I just priced it out, using a R150F Marlin rebuilt transmission , the NW Toys conversion stuff, and using the Tundra I have sitting in my driveway as a donor, is $9219 that, and that's doing the work myself.

The R transmissions that came in Land Cruiser applications came attached to HF1/2A transfer cases, so get in the ballpark of gearing, I'd need a 3:1 t-case. Buying a new one, with a 3:1 gearset installed is currently (12/16/2023) $4618, bringing the total to $13873

That said, I want an H55F, with gearing to come close to what an SM420 + 4 speed case is (7.01 * 1.99 = 13.95:1) so I'd need an H55f + 3.0:1 t-case gear set (4.84 * 3.0 = 14.52 ) to come close. That setup is $8,000. Cost there, with the NW Toys conversion stuff, and assuming the Dellow conversion bellhousing is the same cost, is $14,000.

For peace of mind, I think, if I am going to use my Tundra motor with 200,000 miles on the odometer (this is the same issue I have with a Toyota factory diesel, FWIW), I might want to simply rebuild it. Parts are $1300 from LC Engineering, Plus machine work, and lets just figure in $2500.

I've not quite spent $20k, but $18019 is pretty close. Plus there's also radiator concerns, shipping the bellhousing from australia etc and other 'I didn't think of that' costs to contend with. And also why I am estimating on the high side of things too

I am sure I could find parts cheaper, and do it for a lot less, but budgeting high and coming in under budget is preferable to budgeting low and coming in over budget.

 

[NOSAJ]

Thanks for the info @OlYellr and @Tigerstripe40 ! Sorry 160 was a typo. It was a R150f he used. I’ve messaged him a couple of times he loves the 2uz mated to the 5 speed manual set up. I think there is something to be said for a simple reliable carbureted 2F. I go back and forth with it and spending the money towards a 2uz.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I am cleaning the remains of the head gasket off of the top of the block with a scrape-u-lator and, while I stuffed some paper towels down the hole for the pushrods and water gallery, crud is still getting through. I am trying to push anything into the cylinder bores and then vacuuming it out, but I am concerned any gasket material is getting into the oil passages. My next step after clearing off the top of the motor and de-greasing is to pull the side cover and clean any crud that came through the oil galleries. I am also considering using compressed air to blasted into the water jacket, with my vacuum on the water pump hole to clear anythign out that fell in there.

Once I get everything de-schmoo'd, my plan is to drain the oil and drop the oil pan and clean stuff up as best I can.

I am hoping this should be sufficient, but there's the possibility I missed something. Should I flush the oil gallery with some diesel/ATF mix?