Dynamat alternative (1 Viewer)

[Marc311]

I'm 99.9% sure it's not. The 3M stuff is more a rubbery bedliner type stuff. Spectrum is hard to describe, more a soft plastic than anything. They are also completely different colors (yeah, I know, that's not exactly a big deal).

You're probably right. But my point is there is a producer out there somewhere and buying direct might be cheaper. I also think that if you are using the same butyl product (whether it is called Damplifier, Roofing stuff, or butyl adhesive), with the same adhesion, in the same amount, the result will likely be the same.

But I do have doubts that you can easily find a significantly cheaper alternative when you factor in the cost and convenience of a ready to use product. The other thing to consider is the adhesion of the product. Damplifier, like butyl adhesives, sticks to the metal by itself. I wonder if roofing materials use the stickiness of the butyl or if they use some adhesive since roofing materials may have to stick to other materials (wood). That adhesive my detract from the effectiveness of the product 9or maybe not).

 

[mmw68]

If any one would like a free sample of "quietcrap" just drop me PM, and I'll be happy to send one out.

Quietcrap land cruiser sound deadener

 

[mmw68]

One thought - when you do purchase a sound deadner, please factor shipping into your cost. This stuff is heavy and that shipping could blow any savings you might have.

 

[Ebag333]

You're probably right. But my point is there is a producer out there somewhere and buying direct might be cheaper. I also think that if you are using the same butyl product (whether it is called Damplifier, Roofing stuff, or butyl adhesive), with the same adhesion, in the same amount, the result will likely be the same.

But I do have doubts that you can easily find a significantly cheaper alternative when you factor in the cost and convenience of a ready to use product. The other thing to consider is the adhesion of the product. Damplifier, like butyl adhesives, sticks to the metal by itself. I wonder if roofing materials use the stickiness of the butyl or if they use some adhesive since roofing materials may have to stick to other materials (wood). That adhesive my detract from the effectiveness of the product 9or maybe not).

The roofing products actually probably have less adhesion than the sound dampening material, as they not only lay relatively flat (instead of vertical), but are often nailed or stapled down and have other layers on top of them (shingles, etc).

Back when sound deadener show down was an actual comparison site (rather than a sales site), their tests showed that the asphalt and cheaper butyl products failed sooner.

If any one would like a free sample of "quietcrap" just drop me PM, and I'll be happy to send one out.

Quietcrap land cruiser sound deadener

Sign me up. PM sent.

One thought - when you do purchase a sound deadner, please factor shipping into your cost. This stuff is heavy and that shipping could blow any savings you might have.

Absolutely. Some of the places I've seen have been charging crazy prices for shipping.

 

[Limey55]

Here's an alternative to asphalt and butyl mats

I agree with Yoopercharged. Although cheap, asphalt based sound damping materials outgas when exposed to heat and using them runs the risk of a stink and a mess. There are alternatives available. See link below:
Automotive Noise Control - Soundproofing

This company offers poly based products. They are more expensive than asphalt stuff found at the hardware store, but cheaper than Dynamat. Plenty of photos on the website.

 

[firetruck41]

The roofing products actually probably have less adhesion than the sound dampening material, as they not only lay relatively flat (instead of vertical), but are often nailed or stapled down and have other layers on top of them (shingles, etc).

The Grace flashing is actually used on mostly vertical surfaces with out mechanical fasteners as a means to secure it. The adhesive in Grace Ultra is tested to 300F, and can be adhered to many wood products as well as metal, concrete, and gypsum.

 

[Ebag333]

The Grace flashing is actually used on mostly vertical surfaces with out mechanical fasteners as a means to secure it. The adhesive in Grace Ultra is tested to 300F, and can be adhered to many wood products as well as metal, concrete, and gypsum.

Some of it is obviously more sticky than others. Most of the stuff at HD/Lowes I've seen is not very sticky at all, but I haven't seen the Grace flashing. I probably don't live in a warm enough climate for them to stock it (it seems they only stock the butyl stuff in warm climates where temps are regularly over 100* in the summer, we have nearly all asphalt or asphalt/butyl mix products here).

FWIW SecondSkin rates their stuff up to 500*. One of their forum members (frootloops) actually took a blow torch to some eDead UE and Damplifier Pro....

Where I live I wouldn't worry in the least about the lower temp rated butyl stuff, but if I lived in a warmer climate I would probably want the higher rated stuff. But then again I tend to like overkill.




I noticed two things about QuietCrap that stand out.....

One, it comes in rolls, and two, it's only rated to 270*. Both these lead me to believe that it's probably (basically) the same stuff as you'd find at HD or Lowes, just thicker. That's not a knock against QuietCrap as it is less expensive than Damplifier...I don't think the two are directly comparable.

 

[firetruck41]

Some of it is obviously more sticky than others. Most of the stuff at HD/Lowes I've seen is not very sticky at all, but I haven't seen the Grace flashing. I probably don't live in a warm enough climate for them to stock it (it seems they only stock the butyl stuff in warm climates where temps are regularly over 100* in the summer, we have nearly all asphalt or asphalt/butyl mix products here).

Look at my location, I'm north of you.

FWIW SecondSkin rates their stuff up to 500*. One of their forum members (frootloops) actually took a blow torch to some eDead UE and Damplifier Pro....

Where I live I wouldn't worry in the least about the lower temp rated butyl stuff, but if I lived in a warmer climate I would probably want the higher rated stuff. But then again I tend to like overkill.

If your interior is over 300F, you are in BIG trouble, IMHO. I could never for see exceeding this temp in the vehicle, unless it is on fire.

 

[Bluetribal]

i have some of the 45mil in my garage, but am still deciding between the 45mil and 80 mil (45mil is $1 / square foot versus $1.50 for the 80mil thickness). Over the next couple weeks, i am putting in 4 new window runs, deadening the doors and replacing all the locks (dont ask). Anyways, I'll post up pics then and a review shortly after.

for those not sure what we are talking about, e-dead is a product by elemental designs, another respected car audio company.

Cool, thanks for getting back to me and no wonder I couldn't find an install write-up. I will stay tuned to your (e-dead) install as I agree with some in this thread that this Peel N Seal is not the smart choice to go with.

 

[Ebag333]

Look at my location, I'm north of you.

Doesn't mean you can't get warmer than me in the summer.

Though looking at your average temps, I somehow doubt that.

If your interior is over 300F, you are in BIG trouble, IMHO. I could never for see exceeding this temp in the vehicle, unless it is on fire.

It's not about the failure point but more of the way it holds up over time. Around here for at least a couple weeks we are over 100*, that can easily translate into interior temps of well north of 150* (even pushing 200* on the hottest days).

If you take the cheaper material (like eDead for example) and expose to to 200* temps, you'll see that it can literally move on you. The adhesive/butyl softens enough to the point that the weight will cause it to shift. Will it completely fail? Most likely not, but it's much closer to failure (200* to 275* compared to 200* to 500*) and partial failure (coming lose, moving, etc) is definately possible.

The other thing is that sound dampening material doesn't perform as well when it's soft. Part of the purpose is to stiffen the panel and reduce vibrations, the softer it is the less it can do that. A material that is rated at 500* instead of 275* will be far less soft at 200*.

 

[FirstToy]

too much conjecture in this thread.

just for arguments sake:
I could see a lower max temp rating making the material too soft but doesn't it also matter the type of adhesive used? If it's a 500F material but the same adhesive, they will both fall off at the same rate. The stiffer material might be more likely to move than one that gets softer.


All I'm saying is that there is too much guessing on what the material may or may not do. Heath debate is one thing but really, it's a rubber sticker. It can't be this controversial.

I do know that sticking a small piece on the backside of the sheetmetal makes a difference and you don't need to cover the entire sheetmetal. Just enough to change the vibration of the metal- that's what Toyota does with it's sound deadening.

I like that link Limey55 posted- they seperate into vibration dampening, sound absorbers, sound barriers.

What about expanding spray foam to fill in some areas to create barriers for sound and cancel open voids that amplify noise? Carefully used (**I mean this stuff EXPANDS-so not to blow out panels**), might be a cheap, lightweight product in conjuction w/ some other products??

 

[Ebag333]

just for arguments sake:
I could see a lower max temp rating making the material too soft but doesn't it also matter the type of adhesive used? If it's a 500F material but the same adhesive, they will both fall off at the same rate. The stiffer material might be more likely to move than one that gets softer.

There's been several different tests using various types of sound dampener. It's simple, cut up a few chunks, stick them to a piece of metal, and shove it in an oven for a few hours.

Back when Sounddeadenershowdown.com was a comparison site (before someone bought it for a sales site) Damplifier and another one (can't remember the brand off hand...) were the only two that didn't fail at least partially. There's been more than one test on that, see the link above where frootloops reproduced the test with Damplifier and eDead.

I do know that sticking a small piece on the backside of the sheetmetal makes a difference and you don't need to cover the entire sheetmetal. Just enough to change the vibration of the metal- that's what Toyota does with it's sound deadening.

That's true and it helps, but the difference between covering all of the sheet metal and just a little patch is night and day.

I did my wifes truck with just Spectrum, applied approx 3 mm thick to the rear quarters (I test drove it before I did the doors and tailgate), and the difference was amazing. Night and day.

At some point I'd like to get some Damplifier and go over the Spectrum, and see what a difference it makes from there.

What about expanding spray foam to fill in some areas to create barriers for sound and cancel open voids that amplify noise? Carefully used (**I mean this stuff EXPANDS-so not to blow out panels**), might be a cheap, lightweight product in conjuction w/ some other products??

That's an interesting idea. That stuff is a very good sound deadener (probably mostly in the category of sound absorber), the only problem is that it takes a lot of space to acheive the same effect.

Back in the day lead sheets were the most common used sound deadening material, the problem there is that it's heavy (not to mention toxic).

Now-a-days the material to use is MLV--Mass Loaded Vinyl. It's not super cheap and the challenge would be in applying it. It also works differently than edead/Damplifier/dynamat/etc. Their job is to reduce vibrations in the panel, MLV is there to absorb sound, so for MLV to work completely you need to cover every possible entry for sound, else the effectiveness is hugely reduced. With the vibration dampeners, you can have a small piece and it will still have a significant effect (look at the OEM dampening). If you took off the OEM sound dampening material and replaced it with MLV it would have very little effect, unless your ear was right next to the MLV.

That's one of the big challengers to the sound absorbing materials, if you have even a small gap it reduces the effectiveness drastically. Considering the design and build of a vehicle, there's too many gaps to make a sound absorbing material very effective.

 

[mmw68]

I noticed two things about QuietCrap that stand out.....

One, it comes in rolls, and two, it's only rated to 270*. Both these lead me to believe that it's probably (basically) the same stuff as you'd find at HD or Lowes, just thicker. That's not a knock against QuietCrap as it is less expensive than Damplifier...I don't think the two are directly comparable.

My product does not come from the hardware store, I located a OEM manufacturer of sounddeadner, while I was at SEMA last year, and he agreed to produce this product for me. My goal was to produce a cost effective product for the ih8mud community. I could of done sheets, but I personally liked the fact that I could have the quietcrap produced in a roll.

-Mark

 

[Ebag333]

My product does not come from the hardware store, I located a OEM manufacturer of sounddeadner, while I was at SEMA last year, and he agreed to produce this product for me. My goal was to produce a cost effective product for the ih8mud community. I could of done sheets, but I personally liked the fact that I could have the quietcrap produced in a roll.

-Mark

I never meant to suggest it does, merely that it has many of the same properties. IMHO it's still superior to what you buy from HD/Lowes because it's thicker/heavier than what they have, and the cost really isn't any different than what you get there.

I know that Ant at SecondSkin has his products custom made to his specifications, which is why they cost so much more.

I guess you get what you pay for. Want cheap and a small improvement, go with HD/Lowes. Want reasonable improvement at a reasonable cost? QuietCrap seems like a good product. Is it going to be the absolute best product out there, probably not but you're not paying a premium price either. For many people reasonable improvement at a reasonable price is all they want/need.

 

[nicholas]

My product does not come from the hardware store, I located a OEM manufacturer of sounddeadner, while I was at SEMA last year, and he agreed to produce this product for me. My goal was to produce a cost effective product for the ih8mud community. I could of done sheets, but I personally liked the fact that I could have the quietcrap produced in a roll.

-Mark

Hey Mark,

How many square feet of Quietcrap do you recommend for an 80 series?


I guess it would depend on the extent of coverage, but does anyone have an approximate breakdown of the area inside the cabin?

4 doors?
floor?
rear panels?
roof?
firewall? -seems like a major PITA but probably worth the effort

This is something I might consider in the future. I really need to remove my nasty carpet to clean the PO's kids juice box stains etc. That seems like the perfect time to do something like this.

 

[96r50]

I used 50 square feet of B-quiet ultimate to do 2 layers on the roof and 2 layers on the rear wheel wells. A rough guess would be 40sqft on the roof and 10sqft on the wheel wells.

 

[mmw68]

No Offense Taken.. Like I said to you in a PM, ANT has some wonderful products, I've even used them myself. You also asked me what a 12x12 inch piece of quiet crap weighted. It is 8.0z.

-Mark

I never meant to suggest it does, merely that it has many of the same properties. IMHO it's still superior to what you buy from HD/Lowes because it's thicker/heavier than what they have, and the cost really isn't any different than what you get there.

I know that Ant at SecondSkin has his products custom made to his specifications, which is why they cost so much more.

I guess you get what you pay for. Want cheap and a small improvement, go with HD/Lowes. Want reasonable improvement at a reasonable cost? QuietCrap seems like a good product. Is it going to be the absolute best product out there, probably not but you're not paying a premium price either. For many people reasonable improvement at a reasonable price is all they want/need.

 

[mmw68]

On my FJ62, I did the entire floor area, and all four doors (both inner and outer panels) the rear cargo area, and used about 85sq feet. I still want to add some to the firewall, but like you said - it's a PITA!

Hey Mark,

How many square feet of Quietcrap do you recommend for an 80 series?


I guess it would depend on the extent of coverage, but does anyone have an approximate breakdown of the area inside the cabin?

4 doors?
floor?
rear panels?
roof?
firewall? -seems like a major PITA but probably worth the effort

This is something I might consider in the future. I really need to remove my nasty carpet to clean the PO's kids juice box stains etc. That seems like the perfect time to do something like this.

 

[Ebag333]

No Offense Taken.. Like I said to you in a PM, ANT has some wonderful products, I've even used them myself. You also asked me what a 12x12 inch piece of quiet crap weighted. It is 8.0z.

-Mark

Interesting...that's actually slightly heavier than Damplifier (.5 lbs vs .45 lbs). Slightly lighter than Damplifier Pro (.65 lbs).

Weight obviously isn't everything, but it gives you a rough idea at performance.

I actually ordered a sheet of the Damplifier Light, Damplifier, and Damplifier Pro (1 of each). I'm curious to see what difference each makes.

 

[second skin rep]

Gee, the issues w/ Peel-n-Seal and any asphalt damper sound exactly the same as the issues with Second Skin! I took out my cargo area carpet last night and got treated to a gooey mess underneath. Coupled with the fact it made no appreciable difference in sound or heat damping inside, Peel-n-Seal sounds like a great alternative.

The only way your Second Skin melted is if you bought it 5 years ago or more (when it used to be asphalt)

We have not had a batch of product that contains asphalt in over 5 years now. We stopped making it once we realized how terrible it was. It melts at 180 degrees and is not crosslinked so it is not elastomeric which means it is not a good choice for damping vibarions. The foil is also too thin to do anything.
So the problem you have with the old asphalt version of Damplifier is the same problem most people will have that use Peel and Seal.
It has been done before, many time, and always ends up the same.
People find it. Say it is the same thing as Dynamat. Claim that a roof will get hotter than a car, and everytone jumps on it.
What you usually end up seeing is 1 year later everyone comes back with melted tar all over their car, in their winder gears, and on their head liner. P&S has a failure rate of about 80%.
The 20% that are lucky usually boast the loudest that it worked for them, so everyone else must be installing it wrong. Quite typicle and misinformed actually.

Little Joe
Send me an email, and I will look your order up and will replace your old material with brand new top of the line Damplifier, which, is designed for an automobile, not a roof.

Sorry for the troule..

ANT