Dynamat alternative (1 Viewer)

[second skin rep]

Another thing that nobody has address so far is the foil thickness.
Foil backed dampers with elastomeric adhesive are referred to as Constraint Layer Dampers.
The foil is the layer that constrinas the adhesive. The foil has to be thick and strong to do this.
At least mis of a hard foil. OSft foil wont cut it, especially a thin foil.

The adhesive has to be elastomeric. HAS TO BE!!
otherwise it will not convert vibrations in to heat.

Here is an industry secret; if it comes on a roll, it was never EVER, designed to go in a car. It is a roofing tape. 100% of the time, without question.
The foil on roofing tapes are thin enough to roll us, and rolling a product up is much cheaper than flat die cut sheets, which is how real constraint layer dampers are made.

The foil is too thick and hard to roll up nicely.
There is not an automotive sound deadening manufacturer in the industry that puts a real CLD on a roll.
There are some CLD tapes that are very thin used for certain areas but they are only 10 mils thick total.

Any company that sells a product that comes on a roll is doing nothing more than rebading a roofing tape, and calling it a vibration damper.
In some cases the stuff will work better than P&S (the specific brand) as long as it ias buty, rather than aspahlt but really it is too much of a risk if you ask me ( I do own a sound deadneing company though so I am totally biased).
Why an asphalt mat that melts in your car, that has a foil that is too thin to do the job, that will require twice as much work to install, that will only save you a few bucks?



ANT

 

[Ebag333]

Here is an industry secret; if it comes on a roll, it was never EVER, designed to go in a car. It is a roofing tape. 100% of the time, without question.
The foil on roofing tapes are thin enough to roll us, and rolling a product up is much cheaper than flat die cut sheets, which is how real constraint layer dampers are made.

That's probably true, but it's still better than what most of us have, which is little to nothing.

As long as you're not using an asphalt based product I don't think it will hurt. It may not help as much as the premium stuff, but it's better than nothing.

 

[second skin rep]

Interesting...that's actually slightly heavier than Damplifier (.5 lbs vs .45 lbs). Slightly lighter than Damplifier Pro (.65 lbs).

Weight obviously isn't everything, but it gives you a rough idea at performance.

I actually ordered a sheet of the Damplifier Light, Damplifier, and Damplifier Pro (1 of each). I'm curious to see what difference each makes.

I saw that order come though today!
I was wondering why someone would buy 1 of each.
There was something else on the order too wasn't there?

What you will notice about the Damplifier line is the ultra thick foil

Dampliifer lite - foil = 3 mils thick
Dampliifer - foil = 4.5 mils thick
Dampliifer Pro - foil = 6.5 mils thick

Each one has a thicker butyl rubber adhesive than the other too, but the foil is what does the majoirty of the work.

Enjoy!

ANT

 

[mmw68]

Here is an industry secret; if it comes on a roll, it was never EVER, designed to go in a car. It is a roofing tape. 100% of the time, without question.
The foil on roofing tapes are thin enough to roll us, and rolling a product up is much cheaper than flat die cut sheets, which is how real constraint layer dampers are made.

ANT, If that is the case, then I will double check with the wholesale firm I am purchasing my product thru and have some words with them. Being part of the IH8MUD community, I would never want to sell a crappy product to my fellow Ih8Mud members.

-Mark

 

[second skin rep]

That's probably true, but it's still better than what most of us have, which is little to nothing.

As long as you're not using an asphalt based product I don't think it will hurt. It may not help as much as the premium stuff, but it's better than nothing.

Agreed. Somthing (that has a history of not melting) is certainly better than nothing.
But from a perfomance stange point, think about it this way; Spending your money on a superior product, even though you will get less square feet, will do a better job at damping the entire surface area when compared to the same dollar amount of an inferior product, even though you get more square footage and can cover more area.

If I had 100 sq feet or area to cover, I'd rather spend $100 on 40 sq feet and spread it out on 40% of the total sureface, than spend $100 on an inferior product ad get 100 sq feet. In most, if not all cases, the 40 sq foot would do a better damping job than the 100 sq feet of the cheap stuff, and would take less time to install.

ANT

 

[second skin rep]

ANT, If that is the case, then I will double check with the wholesale firm I am purchasing my product thru and have some words with them. Being part of the IH8MUD community, I would never want to sell a crappy product to my fellow Ih8Mud members.

-Mark

Sending you a pm..

 

[cruiser_guy]

I have the Second Skin stuff in my FJ55. I bought it in the spring of '07 and it's been in Guatemala for the last two years (that's hot), now in Canada (and it's COLD). No sticky mess, MUCH quieter, I'm happy!!

 

[Ebag333]

I saw that order come though today!
I was wondering why someone would buy 1 of each.
There was something else on the order too wasn't there?

5 gallons of Spectrum. Planning on ripping out the carpet of my truck, going over the floorboards with Spectrum, then Duplicolor bed liner over that.

I'll also be using it for the body panels of course.

 

[MrZero]

I used both Quietcrap AND Damplifier in my recent interior project on my FJ60. You can find that thread here:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/308430-mrzeros-interior-adventure-tm.html

At first my intention was to just do the front doors and the front floors and I bought a roll of Quietcrap from Mark I quickly realized I wanted to just go the whole distance, so I bought another 40 sq. feet of regular Damplifier. Both products went on easy. Both products seemed equally sticky to me. Both products have stayed put in the 105 degree summer we had down here. Both products smell inert. Both products seem to provide excellent sound dampening.

The differences were:

Quietcrap came on a rolll, Damplifier came in sheets
Quietcrap has thinner aluminum
Quietcrap has thicker butyl than regular Damplifier
Quietcrap did not tear when pushed and rolled into tight corners as the Damplifier often did.

From a consumer standpoint, I was and have been happy with both products. I would certainly buy Quietcrap again and I'd certainly buy Damplifier again. However, with my experience so far, I'd probably opt for the Quietcrap as it was less expensive. I wonder if any difference in PERCEIVABLE sound or vibration dampening is akin to the difference between 1080i and 1080p......I'm sure some people could tell the difference, but I can't and my wife and kid are happy with the results.

I can't argue all the science and industry secrets. All I can do is relate my own experience so far.

 

[Marc311]

Excellent points Mr. Zero.

 

[Texican]

I have used Dyna Mat, and Quiet crap, Quiet Crap much easier to use, we used a Wagner paint stripping heat gun to make it easier to form to all the contours in the floor........have no idea of what temps however this gun will melt paint and cause metal shavings to glow red

this shot was taken prior to heating and forming.......one thing we noticed is even if you over lap the seams the heat and roller will make it virtually smooth.....

I'm sure the other products are great also.....but I have no issues with this. It made a huge difference in the noise and heat coming from the engine/exhaust etc. We installed a PVC mat over.

 

[austinmark]

I ordered two rolls of the Quiet**** from Mark and am still in the process of installing it. Having a little kid underfoot makes taking the time a bit of a challenge.

I've done all four doors -- outer sheet metal and blanketing the inner sheet metal -- the cargo area floorboard and the rear quarter panels. The difference, so far, is terrific. The general noise level is reduced, but where it's possible for me to say definitively that it's better is when i hit bumps in the road and when other cars pass. Plus, my wife has been my tester in the back seat and says the road noise it way lower and makes highway-speed conversations possible.

I'm hoping to do the floorboards over the holiday and put in the sound deadening foam from McMaster-Carr to replace the carpet jute under my carpet. Together, those might make me forget that I'm driving a rock concert on wheels!

 

[alia176]

Holy moly! Nice job dude.

Just curious, in the event of needing to access the window internals, what is your plan? Did you clean the sheet metal surface with anything before applying this stuff?

thanks.

 

[warpdriv]

I'm using the QuiteCrap on my 80. Having it in a roll allows me to cut what I want. Doing the floor was easy. The stuff is the stickiest stuff I ever seen. The 80 is quieter and I'm happier!

 

[alpinecowboy]

Not to dog pile onto this one, but I've also used Quiet crap on my rig and was extremely pleased with the results. Here is the link to what I did exactly:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/325893-sound-deadener-install-w-pics-diesel-wow.html

Number one, Quietcrap worked and worked very well. My rig has the diesel out of a BJ60 in it so it is about as noisy as a tractor - or at least it was until I put the QC in her. The difference before and after is significant to say the least. I think the trick is getting good coverage throughout the vehicle and using a mix of small and large pieces.

How it stacks up to Dynamat? Well, who can honestly say? Certainly not me and certainly not an employee of Dynamat. I read the previous posts from that angle and to say that they seemed a little biased understates it.

As others have pointed out who have used both products, it is hard to say even in side by side comparisons what the real, qualitative differences are between these products as it relates to sound quality in a 20+ year old tin can on wheels.

What I can say is that I have been pleased with my results and liked the Quietcrap because it was very easy to work with and more than met my expectations. The same can be said in my experience for the folks at CruiserCrap as well.

One thing I did beyond the QC was throw a full layer of sound deadening foam from McMaster-Carr on there as well in place of the jute backing that came on my carpets. That was the icing on the cake and really helped mute the sound in the passenger compartment down even more.

Best of luck!

 

[Ebag333]

Well, I just got my order of Damplifier in, and yesterday got my sample of QuietCrap. Thanks Mark!

Couple of initial thoughts.

1) QuietCrap is about the same thickness overall as Damp Pro. That includes the backing, which appears to be thicker on the Damp than it is on the QuietCrap.

2) The aluminum appears to be much thicker than the Damp than it is on the QuietCrap. I think even Damp Light is thicker, but I don't have anything to measure that level of detail. As a result the Damp is significantly stiffer.

3) The Damp butyl is much stiffer than QuietCrap. This probably does make it a bit more difficult to install on sharp bends...

4) Likely because of 2 and 3, along with the thicker backing and the fact that Damp is in sheets rather than rolls means that it's far more uniform than QuietCrap. QuietCrap is thicker in some spots than others, again likely because it's rolled (stretched in spots and compressed in others). This makes as much of .2 or .3 MM according to my cheap harbor freight digital caliper (which actually measures surprisingly accurately). Doesn't sound like much, but when you start off with only 2 mm you're talking about 10% of the thickness.

5) Unless one of these really surprises me down the road, I think I'd go with either one of them (if they were donated to me ). There are a couple of things I want to test further, so I reserve judgement to change my mind.


One last thought......5 gallons of Spectrum is heavy! Considering I only paid around $30-35ish for shipping (I don't remember exactly), I'm sure Ant paid through the nose on shipping, or has one heck of a deal with UPS.

Side note for Ant, your box was nearly destroyed by UPS, it was very close to falling apart (and did when I went to move it off my porch). Your packaging of the Damplifier was just fine.

 

[Marc311]

It's nice to get people's first-hand experience for both. It sounds like a Quiet Crap might be somewhat inferior to Damplifier, but it also sounds like it is a quality product - and cheaper too. The same way Damplifier is "inferior" to Damplifier Pro, but cheaper than it. When I did my 60 with Damplifier, I chose to use regular Damplifier rather than the Pro to save money. I'm glad I did. Now it seems like people can choose QC instead of Damplifier if they want a different quality/price ratio. I might have gone that way if it was an option back then.

The same way some people choose to cover 40% or 100% or even two or more layers - everybody has their own level of acceptable performance for the price. The important thing is to know the product works well for the money. Some here have awesome stereo setups in their rides - they might want two layers of Pro and be willing to pay several hundred dollars. Others may just want to take the edge off and be more than happy with $100 of QC.

Choices are good.

 

[landtank]

It's nice to get people's first-hand experience for both. It sounds like a Quiet Crap might be somewhat inferior to Damplifier, but it also sounds like it is a quality product - and cheaper too. The same way Damplifier is "inferior" to Damplifier Pro, but cheaper than it. When I did my 60 with Damplifier, I chose to use regular Damplifier rather than the Pro to save money. I'm glad I did. Now it seems like people can choose QC instead of Damplifier if they want a different quality/price ratio. I might have gone that way if it was an option back then.

The same way some people choose to cover 40% or 100% or even two or more layers - everybody has their own level of acceptable performance for the price. The important thing is to know the product works well for the money. Some here have awesome stereo setups in their rides - they might want two layers of Pro and be willing to pay several hundred dollars. Others may just want to take the edge off and be more than happy with $100 of QC.

Choices are good.

X2, this thread is like talking about sound equipment. You can analyze it till the cows come home but in the end how much of a difference is there really.

 

[Ebag333]

It's nice to get people's first-hand experience for both. It sounds like a Quiet Crap might be somewhat inferior to Damplifier, but it also sounds like it is a quality product - and cheaper too. The same way Damplifier is "inferior" to Damplifier Pro, but cheaper than it. When I did my 60 with Damplifier, I chose to use regular Damplifier rather than the Pro to save money. I'm glad I did. Now it seems like people can choose QC instead of Damplifier if they want a different quality/price ratio. I might have gone that way if it was an option back then.

The same way some people choose to cover 40% or 100% or even two or more layers - everybody has their own level of acceptable performance for the price. The important thing is to know the product works well for the money. Some here have awesome stereo setups in their rides - they might want two layers of Pro and be willing to pay several hundred dollars. Others may just want to take the edge off and be more than happy with $100 of QC.

Choices are good.

Well put. Exactly what I was trying to say.

 

[dbleon]

If you want to use Peel and Seal, do it right... ONLY use it on the floor boards, AND cover it in roof coating with ceramic microsperes mixed in (same exact stuff that second skin sells as "spectrum" for BIG $$$$$). I've done this and can tell you that the roof coating must be elastomeric (contains acrylic polymers). Henry solarflex 287 sf is a great option. ~$70 at home depot for 5 gal. Tint-able in any color. The sound deadener industry is smoke and mirrors guys... hate to say it. Here's a link to the DIY spray on "spectrum").

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Ceramic_insulation