Any Cummins R2.8L diesel repowers? (1 Viewer)

[TexasSid]

So, is a Cummins 5.9L '6bt' engine the same general cost as the R2.8 or Toyota?

My searches on the Cummins 5.9's are turning up a pretty big cost for a well worn engine. Rebuilt long blocks are way up there. A good motor appears to be a lot more money.

I can see some benefit to 12V 5.9L though, not sure the cost is worth it. And, Fuel consumption won't be as good though general support should be pretty good overall.

 

[PIP]

What's RIB? Rigid inflatable boat?

I'd be interested to know what other traits your buddy has commented on

From memory, problems with liners fretting into the block. The liners sink into the block from running high boost pressure. Then it won't hold a headgasket. There weren't any repair procedures for this so I had custom liners made and machined the blocks to accept the custom stepped liners. They last a finite period until the same failure occurs.

Parts availability was bad at times.

This was awhile ago when I was involved in it. I just do custom machinework- Heavy boring mill type repairs and larger CNC milling and turning. I'm not a Yanmar diesel expert.

Toyota makes Hino right?

I will say the new Hino engines are complete and total trash.

I often work for the logging companies in the PNW. My company repairs the big stuff the mobile guys aren't set up for. We do lots of heavy repairs for yarders and processors and loaders.

Kobelco makes some awesome machines. Loggers buy Kobelcos because they're the fastest and they take a beating and keep going.

The big processors were powered by 400HP M11 Cummins engines for ages. They'd need an inflame every 15k-20k hours. That's a $10k job. No big deal.

Kobelco switched to 11 liter OHC Hino engines. The Hinos last about 2500-5000 hrs and everytime they go its catastrophic to the point there is no core refund. A new 11 liter Hino longblock is $80k and there are no used parts anywhere.

So one outfit with a few of these brought me a scattered Hino and an M11 and I made all the bits to make an M11 bolt in exactly the same place as the Hino used to be. Worked slick.

I know loggers are hard on stuff, but it's a good litmus test.

 

[PIP]

So, is a Cummins 5.9L '6bt' engine the same general cost as the R2.8 or Toyota?

My searches on the Cummins 5.9's are turning up a pretty big cost for a well worn engine. Rebuilt long blocks are way up there. A good motor appears to be a lot more money.

I can see some benefit to 12V 5.9L though, not sure the cost is worth it. And, Fuel consumption won't be as good though general support should be pretty good overall.

The R2.8 is going to be around $20-$25k all in and sorted. It will get about 20 for mixed MPG'S.

5.9 12 valve can vary quite a bit, but I'd ballpark it at $25k for nv4500, $30k for Allison 1000. The 5.9 will get 17-18 for mixed city/country mpg's and max about 23mpg highway at 65-70 mph on 35" tires.

12 valves are beyond dirt simple. Buy a used one for $1500 or less and rebuild it yourself for $3000-$5000 depending on fuel system.

A complete pro rebuilt turnkey 12 valve should be about $10k without a core if you just want to buy one.

There is so much good information and support for them it usually makes sense to DIY it if you can.

 

[mudgudgeon]

From memory, problems with liners fretting into the block. The liners sink into the block from running high boost pressure. Then it won't hold a headgasket. There weren't any repair procedures for this so I had custom liners made and machined the blocks to accept the custom stepped liners. They last a finite period until the same failure occurs.

Parts availability was bad at times.

This was awhile ago when I was involved in it. I just do custom machinework- Heavy boring mill type repairs and larger CNC milling and turning. I'm not a Yanmar diesel expert.

Toyota makes Hino right?

I will say the new Hino engines are complete and total trash.

I often work for the logging companies in the PNW. My company repairs the big stuff the mobile guys aren't set up for. We do lots of heavy repairs for yarders and processors and loaders.

Kobelco makes some awesome machines. Loggers buy Kobelcos because they're the fastest and they take a beating and keep going.

The big processors were powered by 400HP M11 Cummins engines for ages. They'd need an inflame every 15k-20k hours. That's a $10k job. No big deal.

Kobelco switched to 11 liter OHC Hino engines. The Hinos last about 2500-5000 hrs and everytime they go its catastrophic to the point there is no core refund. A new 11 liter Hino longblock is $80k and there are no used parts anywhere.

So one outfit with a few of these brought me a scattered Hino and an M11 and I made all the bits to make an M11 bolt in exactly the same place as the Hino used to be. Worked slick.

I know loggers are hard on stuff, but it's a good litmus test.

I might be wrong, certainly no expert, but I don't think the hd series engines have a liner. I think cylinders are bored in the cast block??

@SNLC might be able to answer that

 

[SNLC]

I might be wrong, certainly no expert, but I don't think the hd series engines have a liner. I think cylinders are bored in the cast block??

@SNLC might be able to answer that

Nope, no liner on any of the 1Hx series of engines. I haven’t seen a diesel with a liner since the Nissan SD33T, maybe the TD42 uses a liner as well, but it is not a Toyota thing to use cylinder bore liners. That’s a Nissan thing and maybe other diesel as well like Isuzu, beats me, I know Cruisers and Patrols (kinda of Patrols) and really nothing else. I couldn’t even tell ya’ where’s the oil filter is on ANY jeep and have no shame of this!

Cheers

 

[Dougal]

The Cummins 2.8 was sold in my country in Foton Tunland utes (SAIC is the parent company).
They were sold cheap and you'd see quite a few on the road. Now you never see them. I knew one owner who by 100,000km was on his second engine. First covered by warranty around 50,000km. Second wasn't.

Foton Tunland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now the SAIC utes run a different diesel engine. I know a guy who runs several in his fleet and still thinks they're great.

SAIC Motor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

T60 Pickup

Kinda sounds like the cummins wasn't reliable enough for the Chinese.

IMO if you can get a Toyota 1HD-FT for your cruiser you'd be mad to install anything else. The HD-T is basically the same fitment but has crank bearing cavitation issues (BEB need done every 100,000km).
Sure it's no problem to fit a cummins 6bt under the hood and crank up the fuel. But the accesories required to cover that power/torque get out of hand quickly. The size of turbos, air-filters, gearboxes etc gets ridiculous fast.

It's great that 1200Nm can be cranked out of a 1HD-FT. But the gearbox life will hate you for the rest of it's very short life.

Isuzu 4BD1T/4BD2T are middle road between the Toyota and Cummins as far as fit/complexity. A lot smoother/quieter than the 4BT.

 

[White Stripe]

I seriously considered a toyota diesel, but local parts stores don't have parts for them in the USA. So that was a factor in my decision. Another factor was I couldn't find much info on how egt did while towing other than they would be too high. Thus I decided I was going either LS or 6bt. The Isuzu 4bd1t was also a consideration, but I couldn't figure out if it would be a good candidate. What adapter do you use to the tcase? Will it bolt to a gm transmission or a nv4500? Since than I've worked on a couple 4bd1t motors, but I'm still learning more about them. May be a great candidate.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Another factor was I couldn't find much info on how egt did while towing other than they would be too high.

There's toyota landcruiser towing boats, trailers, caravans, horses etc all over Australia every day

Landcruisers are the tow vehicle of choice for a huge number of Aussies. We don’t have big full size pick-ups like you do in USA.

Landcruiser is kind of the pinnacle of workhorses that can tow a horse float, or caravan, and also do soccer mum duty

 

[Dougal]

I seriously considered a toyota diesel, but local parts stores don't have parts for them in the USA. So that was a factor in my decision. Another factor was I couldn't find much info on how egt did while towing other than they would be too high. Thus I decided I was going either LS or 6bt. The Isuzu 4bd1t was also a consideration, but I couldn't figure out if it would be a good candidate. What adapter do you use to the tcase? Will it bolt to a gm transmission or a nv4500? Since than I've worked on a couple 4bd1t motors, but I'm still learning more about them. May be a great candidate.

What parts do you regularly need? Belts, filters and maybe a thermostat?

EGT isn't a concern on any factory diesel (apart from Nissan). Running lean enough to burn clean means EGT are perfectly safe. EGT becomes a concern when some clown has turned fuel screws without considering how everything interacts.

 

[White Stripe]

There's toyota landcruiser towing boats, trailers, caravans, horses etc all over Australia every day

Landcruisers are the tow vehicle of choice for a huge number of Aussies. We don’t have big full size pick-ups like you do in USA.

Landcruiser is kind of the pinnacle of workhorses that can tow a horse float, or caravan, and also do soccer mum duty

What kind of passes are in australia? In the USA I tow up some passes that go up to around 11000 ft in elevation.

 

[White Stripe]

What parts do you regularly need? Belts, filters and maybe a thermostat?

EGT isn't a concern on any factory diesel (apart from Nissan). Running lean enough to burn clean means EGT are perfectly safe. EGT becomes a concern when some clown has turned fuel screws without considering how everything interacts.

Water pump, alternator, hoses, seals, gaskets etc. On my LS motor the tensioner for the AC belt went bad on my way to a camping trip. It was pretty hot out. I went to oriellys and bought another. Things happen, and if it can happen, it always happens to me haha. Always does.

 

[mudgudgeon]

What kind of passes are in australia? In the USA I tow up some passes that go up to around 11000 ft in elevation.

Well, you'd have to drive back down and go again to find that sort of elevation change in Aus. Our highest mountain is 7300' .

The biggest test in Aus would be towing long distances in summer

 

[Dougal]

Water pump, alternator, hoses, seals, gaskets etc. On my LS motor the tensioner for the AC belt went bad on my way to a camping trip. It was pretty hot out. I went to oriellys and bought another. Things happen, and if it can happen, it always happens to me haha. Always does.

I'm pretty sure the 1-HD engines don't run any fancy tensioners. Just v belts you'll get anywhere. The other parts are either generic or usually planned maintenance.

 

[White Stripe]

I'm pretty sure the 1-HD engines don't run any fancy tensioners. Just v belts you'll get anywhere. The other parts are either generic or usually planned maintenance.

I'm not worried strictly if I can get a tensioner, that was just an example. In general I was worried about getting parts same day locally. That's just me, others may not worry about that. I take my cruiser pretty far from home.

 

[TexasSid]

Toyota makes Hino right?

I will say the new Hino engines are complete and total trash.

In terms of Hino trucks, for a short while they switched to Cummins power because their engines were banned from road use.

 

[PIP]

I might be wrong, certainly no expert, but I don't think the hd series engines have a liner. I think cylinders are bored in the cast block??

@SNLC might be able to answer that

That's great news then! It must have been a different Yanmar engine, not based on the Toyota stuff. Lol!

 

[PIP]

The Cummins 2.8 was sold in my country in Foton Tunland utes (SAIC is the parent company).
They were sold cheap and you'd see quite a few on the road. Now you never see them. I knew one owner who by 100,000km was on his second engine. First covered by warranty around 50,000km. Second wasn't.

Foton Tunland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now the SAIC utes run a different diesel engine. I know a guy who runs several in his fleet and still thinks they're great.

SAIC Motor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

T60 Pickup

Kinda sounds like the cummins wasn't reliable enough for the Chinese.

IMO if you can get a Toyota 1HD-FT for your cruiser you'd be mad to install anything else. The HD-T is basically the same fitment but has crank bearing cavitation issues (BEB need done every 100,000km).
Sure it's no problem to fit a cummins 6bt under the hood and crank up the fuel. But the accesories required to cover that power/torque get out of hand quickly. The size of turbos, air-filters, gearboxes etc gets ridiculous fast.

It's great that 1200Nm can be cranked out of a 1HD-FT. But the gearbox life will hate you for the rest of it's very short life.

Isuzu 4BD1T/4BD2T are middle road between the Toyota and Cummins as far as fit/complexity. A lot smoother/quieter than the 4BT.

I think if I lived where you do I would share your perspective about swapping in a Toyota diesel.

Here in USA the Dodge Cummins engines are extremely common. Dodge pickups are notoriously junky. They are plentiful with bad transmissions, electrical failures and ratted out from 300k miles of work duty with a Cummins that still runs good.

There are 1000:1 5.9 Cummins engines to Isuzu 4BD1T's where I am. It is very hard to find a 4BD1T here. Broken 4BD2T's are easy to find though. Those must not be as reliable as the earlier Isuzus demand a large premium these days.

The 5.9 Cummins doesn't make really aggressive power that breaks parts. The 80 series transfercase and axles have no trouble handling 5.9 Cummins power long term.

For me, it's about investing in an engine that's very well supported anywhere I take my 80 series. An engine with excellent efficiency and reliability and an entire, mature industry devoted to performance parts and tuning.

That doesn't exist in the USA for Toyota diesels. As a cruiser shop in the USA I could see recommending a 1HD-FT because I'd have a captive customer. Nobody knows anything about them here. Our diesel shops speak Duramax 6.6, Powerstroke 7.3, 6.0, 6.4, 6.7, International DT360, DT466 and of coarse Cummins.

Cummins is familiar here. Even the people that hate Dodge pickups like and respect Cummins. They have a well deserved reputation for being the honey badger of tough engines.

 

[leonard_nemoy]

Either swap a chevy v8 or a 6bt if you live in America..... it's an obvious conclusion based on parts and tech availability. Break down in rural America while traveling with a toyota diesel or r2.8 and goodluck finding someone to work on it.

 

[Rouleur]

Either swap a chevy v8 or a 6bt if you live in America..... it's an obvious conclusion based on parts and tech availability. Break down in rural America while traveling with a toyota diesel or r2.8 and goodluck finding someone to work on it.

Also truth! You’d better have some parts on the shelf and know the platform or someone that does.
it’s a full-time job preparing yourself for the unexpected

 

[FJBen]

6BT is a great engine for a truck.
4bt is a great engine for a frito lay van.


Neither are great IMO in a Land Cruiser. I wouldn’t touch an R2.8 in an 80.


I love them in trucks. My moms dodge with the 5.9 is an awesome tow machine.