Any Cummins R2.8L diesel repowers? (1 Viewer)

[SNLC]

I wasn’t comparing, just saying a turbo diesel 160hp is more than adequate for a 6k lb truck but I also understand that not many guys are willing to spend $20-$30k to have 160hp.

$30k gets you a 1HDFTE with 300+hp.

Cheers

 

[Somebodyelse5]

$30k gets you a 1HDFTE with 300+hp.

Cheers

Or a 6BT with 600hp

 

[SNLC]

Or a 6BT with 600hp

I am not a fan of Cummins in a Cruiser. I am a fan of Cummins just not in a Cruiser. That’s way to much hp for stock axles without even mentioning torque.

Hard to beat the 1HDT/FT/FTE in a Cruiser in my opinion and if spending $30k, why the fark wouldn’t you!?

Cheers

 

[PIP]

I am not a fan of Cummins in a Cruiser. I am a fan of Cummins just not in a Cruiser. That’s way to much hp for stock axles without even mentioning torque.

Hard to beat the 1HDT/FT/FTE in a Cruiser in my opinion and if spending $30k, why the fark wouldn’t you!?

Cheers

You can't really use 600 Cummins hp in an 80 series. The vehicle accelerates as fast as the engine revs past about 350hp. 350HP/800+ tq is ridiculously fast in an 80. Some would probably think it is 600hp.

Everyone has thier likes and opinions.

 

[baldilocks]

It’s my understandinging that the vibration of a 4bt can be pretty well solved with a good balancing job and a 6bt harmonic balancer. This is not my experience but something I picked up while reading about 4bt swaps.

Based on what I’ve read about the R2.8 so far, I’d steer away from it. They can be turned up but there have been reports of crank bearing problems. At what point I can’t remember.

If a 4bt can actually be smoothed out a good bit, it seems the perfect diesel swap for an 80. Lots of support and no worries about the integrity of the engine when turned up enough to impress even the most astute 3fe or 1fz pilot.

I love the 6 cylinder Cummins, been driving a common rail since 2005 , but it seems a bit overkill for an 80 not to mention they weigh about 1100#.

 

[SNLC]

You can't really use 600 Cummins hp in an 80 series. The vehicle accelerates as fast as the engine revs past about 350hp. 350HP/800+ tq is ridiculously fast in an 80. Some would probably think it is 600hp.

Everyone has thier likes and opinions.

Exactly and the FT/FTE is quite capable of 300hp safely and 550ftlbs. They are quieter and smoother than a Cummins as well. Not to mention fit like designed by Toyota.

Cheers

 

[PIP]

It’s my understandinging that the vibration of a 4bt can be pretty well solved with a good balancing job and a 6bt harmonic balancer. This is not my experience but something I picked up while reading about 4bt swaps.

Based on what I’ve read about the R2.8 so far, I’d steer away from it. They can be turned up but there have been reports of crank bearing problems. At what point I can’t remember.

If a 4bt can actually be smoothed out a good bit, it seems the perfect diesel swap for an 80. Lots of support and no worries about the integrity of the engine when turned up enough to impress even the most astute 3fe or 1fz pilot.

I love the 6 cylinder Cummins, been driving a common rail since 2005 , but it seems a bit overkill for an 80 not to mention they weigh about 1100#.

A 4bt fits very poorly in an 80 because of how the engine is packaged. A 6bt fits like it the 80 series engine compartment was made for it. The longer engine spreads the same accessories out in a way that everything fits great when the right parts are used.

8 valve 4bt weighs about 800 lbs. 16 valve 4bt weighs about 950. 12 valve weighs 950. Yes, a complete, fully dressed 12 valve weighs 950 lbs. Not 1100.

A 5.9 24v or commonrail weighs about 1100 and a 6.7 is about 50 more lbs as it's 1/2" taller.

So counterintuitively, a 6bt fits better and weighs only a small bit more than a 4bt.

Powerwise, they both make good power for an 80, but a six does it effortlessly. The drive ability is much better with the six because of how much easier it makes power.

My current DD is 97 80 series with a stock 215hp 97 12 valve. It is faster than a 1FZ 80, but super mellow power delivery. It's really nice driving. Handles great too.

 

[PIP]

Exactly and the FT/FTE is quite capable of 300hp safely and 550ftlbs. They are quieter and smoother than a Cummins as well. Not to mention fit like designed by Toyota.

Cheers

When a 12 valve makes 300HP it also makes about 800 ft/lbs at 1600.

That is substantially more fun than 550tq.

You'd actually have to detune most stock 12 valves to makes less than 600tq.

 

[SNLC]

When a 12 valve makes 300HP it also makes about 800 ft/lbs at 1600.

That is substantially more fun than 550tq.

You'd actually have to detune most stock 12 valves to makes less than 600tq.

Hey like you said to each their own, obviously I am a fan of a Toyota diesel in a Land Cruiser.

Cheers

 

[Rouleur]

Exactly and the FT/FTE is quite capable of 300hp safely and 550ftlbs. They are quieter and smoother than a Cummins as well. Not to mention fit like designed by Toyota.

Cheers

truth!

 

[FJBen]

When a 12 valve makes 300HP it also makes about 800 ft/lbs at 1600.

That is substantially more fun than 550tq.

You'd actually have to detune most stock 12 valves to makes less than 600tq.

According to gturbo on an 1hd-fte build

The best torque we received was 1201Nm at wheels at 1950rpm 44psi (on 35″ tyres).
Best power of 414whp, 3100rpm, @ 18.2:1 AFRs, 42psi . (Note the high run posted has the rpm out by about 15%, so the torque is down by about 15% and shows 15% higher in revs, power is same of course).


So; 400whp on 35” tires, 880tq

Mods:

• Std engine (stroker to be fitted this week)
• GTurbo direct fit Blue wheel BB-RS (Bad Boy – Race Spec).
• GTurbo high flow injectors
• Increased plenum volume on intake (not sure of benefit)
• PDI front mount intercooler
• 4″ dump, 3.5″ exhaust
• 3.7:1 diffs
• NPC 1300Nm clutch

 

[PIP]

According to gturbo on an 1hd-fte build

The best torque we received was 1201Nm at wheels at 1950rpm 44psi (on 35″ tyres).
Best power of 414whp, 3100rpm, @ 18.2:1 AFRs, 42psi . (Note the high run posted has the rpm out by about 15%, so the torque is down by about 15% and shows 15% higher in revs, power is same of course).


So; 400whp on 35” tires, 880tq

Mods:

• Std engine (stroker to be fitted this week)
• GTurbo direct fit Blue wheel BB-RS (Bad Boy – Race Spec).
• GTurbo high flow injectors
• Increased plenum volume on intake (not sure of benefit)
• PDI front mount intercooler
• 4″ dump, 3.5″ exhaust
• 3.7:1 diffs
• NPC 1300Nm clutch

How reliable is it?

 

[OGBeno]

How reliable is it?

That‘s straw man. You are smart enough to know that.

 

[SNLC]

A 4bt fits very poorly in an 80 because of how the engine is packaged. A 6bt fits like it the 80 series engine compartment was made for it. The longer engine spreads the same accessories out in a way that everything fits great when the right parts are used.

8 valve 4bt weighs about 800 lbs. 16 valve 4bt weighs about 950. 12 valve weighs 950. Yes, a complete, fully dressed 12 valve weighs 950 lbs. Not 1100.

A 5.9 24v or commonrail weighs about 1100 and a 6.7 is about 50 more lbs as it's 1/2" taller.

So counterintuitively, a 6bt fits better and weighs only a small bit more than a 4bt.

Powerwise, they both make good power for an 80, but a six does it effortlessly. The drive ability is much better with the six because of how much easier it makes power.

My current DD is 97 80 series with a stock 215hp 97 12 valve. It is faster than a 1FZ 80, but super mellow power delivery. It's really nice driving. Handles great too.

I plowed snow in the rockies for six or so winters in an early 24v with NV4500 in a Dodge reg cab dulley. Pulled outer wheel in rear and ran single with studs all around and chains if needed plus sander in the bed. The rockies where we laughed at 3ft dumps. Driveways on the mountain side.

I know damn WELL it is a kickass engine I just don’t like it in a Cruiser when Toyota diesels kick arse as well! And FIT better!

Cheers

 

[mudgudgeon]

How reliable is it?

The Yanmar marine version of the FT is rated at 300hp all day.

I'd like to think that leaves a fair safety margin when an engine failure in a marine environment could be life or death.

 

[PIP]

That‘s straw man. You are smart enough to know that.

The stated power level of 414whp (that is 500+ crankshaft hp) sounds outside the comfort zone of these engines to me in a heavy Land Cruiser.

If I'm wrong I stand corrected. Maybe I need to get a Toyota diesel to play with.

 

[PIP]

The Yanmar marine version of the FT is rated at 300hp all day.

I'd like to think that leaves a fair safety margin when an engine failure in a marine environment could be life or death.

I didn't realize the 6LP Yanmar is the same as the Toyota FT. My primary exposure to Toyota diesels has been in forklifts.

That 6LP was used extensively in RIB boats. One of my customers makes a living dealing in, repairing and outfitting RIB boats. I don't think I have ever heard him characterize those engines as reliable. He has used colorful descriptions of thier other traits though.

 

[OGBeno]

The stated power level of 414whp (that is 500+ crankshaft hp) sounds outside the comfort zone of these engines to me in a heavy Land Cruiser.

If I'm wrong I stand corrected. Maybe I need to get a Toyota diesel to play with.

I’ve never given “power” output much credence. It’s arbitrary based on end-user technical experience (either their own or paid for).

Toyota diesels do not make power output their end-use goal; most of the time their end-use goal is one that actuarial accountants have come up with combined with engineering man-hours to design and construct a power plant. Ergo, 1HZ: 33 years basically with zero design changes outside of weight loss, procurement cost reduction, or simplification of long term part number usage.

Toyota mythology is similar to Cummins mythology in the industrial realm; There is a reason all Toyota diesels above 3.4L displacement have been designed and manufactured by Toyota Industries (Toyota‘s heavy industries operation).

There are two games going on when discussing diesel engines….. especially hardon variations from Cummins and Toyota…. Power and reliability: Those are the two jaggoff twister fights.

I would actually not recommend you get into Toyota diesels. I think they would let you down.

 

[mudgudgeon]

That 6LP was used extensively in RIB boats

What's RIB? Rigid inflatable boat?

I'd be interested to know what other traits your buddy has commented on

 

[mudgudgeon]

I’ve never given “power” output much credence. It’s arbitrary based on end-user technical experience (either their own or paid for).

Toyota diesels do not make power output their end-use goal; most of the time their end-use goal is one that actuarial accountants have come up with combined with engineering man-hours to design and construct a power plant. Ergo, 1HZ: 33 years basically with zero design changes outside of weight loss, procurement cost reduction, or simplification of long term part number usage.

Toyota mythology is similar to Cummins mythology in the industrial realm; There is a reason all Toyota diesels above 3.4L displacement have been designed and manufactured by Toyota Industries (Toyota‘s heavy industries operation).

There are two games going on when discussing diesel engines….. especially hardon variations from Cummins and Toyota…. Power and reliability: Those are the two jaggoff twister fights.

I would actually not recommend you get into Toyota diesels. I think they would let you down.

Tut tut! Shame on you beno!





Every engine has its limits and compromises.

In this discussion there's a Cummins R2.8 at one end, 6bt at the other, and somewhere in the middle an extremely well tested and extremely reliable Toyota factory option.
Sounds like all at similar cost.
Varying degrees of clusterfùckery required for install.

With any of these, put them outside there design parameters, you're no longer comparing apples for apples.