A 200 is meant to have 37’s

[linuxgod]

I’d like to get some ideas on the radiator drop bracket. I have something pictured in my mind, machined in one piece from aluminum, and using additional nuts and bolts to the body, but there’s a lot smarter people on here than me.

I have some bulk UHMW round stock getting machined down this week to start some testing with just 3/4” blocks. Then we’ll cut some 1” next week.

Just trying to help get some more people a little more clearance to have fun. Admittedly, us LX guys will have it easier w/o KDSS. I don’t plan to have any solution to alleviate that possible interference.

I think KDSS clearance is feasible. With the readily available KDSS relo you can fit 35s. You need to make a KDSS relo bracket that pushes the sway bar an extra 1/2” or so forward, then mount the sway bar end links on the outside of the cradle.

Indycole had one made up and he’s running a 35.5 or 36 equivalent without issues. I bought some aluminum stock but haven’t had a chance to actually drill and tap new relo spacers to officially confirm myself, but I do have info posted on what’s needed… basically just a slightly longer KDSS relo spacer, longer m14x1.5 bolts, and a 1.5” aluminum spacer to take up the cradle gap where the link was. Definitely something that could be sold as a kit…

 

[ga12r1]

Late to the party but thought I would list my setup to run 37x13.50 on 2013 TLC

Front

• Front fenders cut
• Fairly extreme BMC
• Tundra arms
• Tundra King 2.5 front
• Camburg 1.5 uni tundra arms
• +45 evos (had to add 3/4” spacer to the front to clear uniball cups)
• 5/8” bump spacers up front
• ^^^OEM coil over spacers to get some of that back
• KDSS delete
• Fender liner removal
• RCV axles
• Extended brake lines
• Superpro Poly LCA bushings

Rear

• 2” extended rod ends on Kings
• Cut and rewelded lower shock mounts by 2”
• ~2” bump extension
• 1 1/4” wheel spacer to get close to front track
• Cutting on the ole Slee rear bumper
• Extended brake lines
• Liberal use of BFH in wheel well
• KDSS delete

Notes

• The suspension is fully functional with no rub fully stuffed lock to lock.
• I have the front spaced just right to where driver tire has about enough clearance for a sheet of paper on the washer reservoir ( added one fender washer under the bump extension on driver side to achieve this.
• Because of the extreme droop from the tundra arms/shocks and oem spacer I was breaking OEM CV on every run. Finally moved to RCV and that solved the issue
• I have no issues without KDSS or anti sway bars. I’m glad it’s gone to be honest. Makes working on the truck much easier.
• Early on I was getting rub up front in certain scenarios. Finally figured out is was bushing deflection. Replaced LCA bushings with Superpro Poly and problem solved. (AAMOF I don’t have a single rubber bushing on the truck now, everything is either heim, JJ, or Poly. Including the track bar(heim). Truck is tight as a tick now.
• 37x13.50 Toyo MTs are HUGE. (Compare to 35x12.50 Yokohoma XMT in photo)

 

[TeCKis300]

Late to the party but thought I would list my setup to run 37x13.50 on 2013 TLC

Front

• Front fenders cut
• Fairly extreme BMC
• Tundra arms
• Tundra King 2.5 front
• Camburg 1.5 uni tundra arms
• +45 evos (had to add 3/4” spacer to the front to clear uniball cups)
• 5/8” bump spacers up front
• ^^^OEM coil over spacers to get some of that back
• KDSS delete
• Fender liner removal
• RCV axles
• Extended brake lines

Rear

• 2” extended rod ends on Kings
• Cut and rewelded lower shock mounts by 2”
• ~2” bump extension
• 1 1/4” wheel spacer to get close to front track
• Cutting on the ole Slee rear bumper
• Extended brake lines
• Liberal use of BFH in wheel well
• KDSS delete

Notes

• The suspension is fully functional with no rub fully stuffed lock to lock.
• I have the front spaced just right to where driver tire has about enough clearance for a sheet of paper on the washer reservoir ( added one fender washer under the bump extension on driver side to achieve this.
• Because of the extreme droop from the tundra arms/shocks and oem spacer I was breaking OEM CV on every run. Finally moved to RCV and that solved the issue
• I have no issues without KDSS or anti sway bars. I’m glad it’s gone to be honest. Makes working on the truck much easier.
• 37x13.50 Toyo MTs are HUGE. (Compare to 35x12.50 Yokohoma XMT in photo)

View attachment 3569244

View attachment 3569245

37 x 13.5s. Beast mode!

 

[MTKID]

Late to the party but thought I would list my setup to run 37x13.50 on 2013 TLC

Front

• Front fenders cut
• Fairly extreme BMC
• Tundra arms
• Tundra King 2.5 front
• Camburg 1.5 uni tundra arms
• +45 evos (had to add 3/4” spacer to the front to clear uniball cups)
• 5/8” bump spacers up front
• ^^^OEM coil over spacers to get some of that back
• KDSS delete
• Fender liner removal
• RCV axles
• Extended brake lines
• Superpro Poly LCA bushings

Rear

• 2” extended rod ends on Kings
• Cut and rewelded lower shock mounts by 2”
• ~2” bump extension
• 1 1/4” wheel spacer to get close to front track
• Cutting on the ole Slee rear bumper
• Extended brake lines
• Liberal use of BFH in wheel well
• KDSS delete

Notes

• The suspension is fully functional with no rub fully stuffed lock to lock.
• I have the front spaced just right to where driver tire has about enough clearance for a sheet of paper on the washer reservoir ( added one fender washer under the bump extension on driver side to achieve this.
• Because of the extreme droop from the tundra arms/shocks and oem spacer I was breaking OEM CV on every run. Finally moved to RCV and that solved the issue
• I have no issues without KDSS or anti sway bars. I’m glad it’s gone to be honest. Makes working on the truck much easier.
• Early on I was getting rub up front in certain scenarios. Finally figured out is was bushing deflection. Replaced LCA bushings with Superpro Poly and problem solved. (AAMOF I don’t have a single rubber bushing on the truck now, everything is either heim, JJ, or Poly. Including the track bar(heim). Truck is tight as a tick now.
• 37x13.50 Toyo MTs are HUGE. (Compare to 35x12.50 Yokohoma XMT in photo)

View attachment 3569244

View attachment 3569245

Great to see you back on here Lee! I was hoping you would comment on your front KDSS delete

I am similarly pleased with no front swaybar. Feels like my front end is moving adequately now off-road and I don’t notice an unsafe street driving dynamic. Although, it should still be in the back of anyone’s mind, what they’ve removed, if an emergency maneuver is necessary. And I don’t tow, so that may be a completely different story.

 

[MTKID]

I think KDSS clearance is feasible. With the readily available KDSS relo you can fit 35s. You need to make a KDSS relo bracket that pushes the sway bar an extra 1/2” or so forward, then mount the sway bar end links on the outside of the cradle.

Indycole had one made up and he’s running a 35.5 or 36 equivalent without issues. I bought some aluminum stock but haven’t had a chance to actually drill and tap new relo spacers to officially confirm myself, but I do have info posted on what’s needed… basically just a slightly longer KDSS relo spacer, longer m14x1.5 bolts, and a 1.5” aluminum spacer to take up the cradle gap where the link was. Definitely something that could be sold as a kit…

The same machinist that is cutting the body lift blocks for me really prefers placing parts into his HAAS mill, so that swaybar block sounds relatively simple. Only problem is I don’t have a rig to test on. But if someone wanted to share a file or pdf diagram ( @TeCKis300 has begun sharing a similar idea), I’d be willing to foot the bill for the first iteration.

I haven’t cut off my swaybar end-link cradles yet so that spacer would be easy to measure for.

 

[nwfl4runner]

I’d like to get some ideas on the radiator drop bracket. I have something pictured in my mind, machined in one piece from aluminum, and using additional nuts and bolts to the body, but there’s a lot smarter people on here than me.

I have some bulk UHMW round stock getting machined down this week to start some testing with just 3/4” blocks. Then we’ll cut some 1” next week.

Just trying to help get some more people a little more clearance to have fun. Admittedly, us LX guys will have it easier w/o KDSS. I don’t plan to have any solution to alleviate that possible interference.

My drop bracket was here, and I used m8x1.25x25mm press-studs to go through the frame, and m8x1.25x40mm flat head torx bolts to tighten into the radiator. 1" center hole to center hole is all you need. I don't know if aluminum handles press studs like mild steel, but you need to use a stud to tighten through the frame.

 

[ga12r1]

37 x 13.5s. Beast mode!

It is. It will eat and eat. Just know that if you wheel 37s hard like I do you better bring all your tools. Including a welder

 

[TeCKis300]

The same machinist that is cutting the body lift blocks for me really prefers placing parts into his HAAS mill, so that swaybar block sounds relatively simple. Only problem is I don’t have a rig to test on. But if someone wanted to share a file or pdf diagram ( @TeCKis300 has begun sharing a similar idea), I’d be willing to foot the bill for the first iteration.

I haven’t cut off my swaybar end-link cradles yet so that spacer would be easy to measure for.

Might as well share here. I've been tossing around the idea of offset sway bar relocation bracket. I imagine this could work for KDSS or AHC as the frame mount interfaces are the same? This is notional without dimensions.

Goal is multifold
- Relocate sway bar forward to gain tire clearance (I'm also secretly thinking to push lower control arm forward for BMC clearance and caster)
- Space sway bar down for better droop travel
- Reduce sway bar spring rate for better articulation without removing sway bars completely for highway handling and safety

 

[MTKID]

Might as well share here. I've been tossing around the idea of offset sway bar relocation bracket. I imagine this could work for KDSS or AHC as the frame mount interfaces are the same? This is notional without dimensions.

Goal is multifold
- Relocate sway bar forward to gain tire clearance (I'm also secretly thinking to push lower control arm forward for BMC clearance and caster)
- Space sway bar down for better droop travel
- Reduce sway bar spring rate for better articulation without removing sway bars completely for highway handling and safety

View attachment 3569283

Could we create one part that combines both @TeCKis300 inboard move and @linuxgod ’s ideas or other shared features? If we could collaborate on one design for both LX & LC, it would certainly simplify things.

Does anyone see an issue moving mounting points inward a little on KDSS? Is 10-15mm thickness a good starting point? 1/2” offset forward?

 

[TeCKis300]

Could we create one part that combines both @TeCKis300 inboard move and @linuxgod ’s ideas or other shared features? If we could collaborate on one design for both LX & LC, it would certainly simplify things.

Does anyone see an issue moving mounting points inward a little on KDSS? Is 10-15mm thickness a good starting point? 1/2” offset forward?

I think that's very possible. Could slot or provide two different mounting positions on the frame bolt holes to allow some adjustability forward/aft.

 

[linuxgod]

Could we create one part that combines both @TeCKis300 inboard move and @linuxgod ’s ideas or other shared features? If we could collaborate on one design for both LX & LC, it would certainly simplify things.

Does anyone see an issue moving mounting points inward a little on KDSS? Is 10-15mm thickness a good starting point? 1/2” offset forward?

Only question would be if the KDSS arm clears the body mount (and any aftermarket bumpers) once moved. That said I’m having trouble visualizing how moving anything inward helps (or even happens) as the KDSS arm mounts to both the sway bar and the LCA

If someone wants to fab something I’m happy to install it

 

[TeCKis300]

Could we create one part that combines both @TeCKis300 inboard move and @linuxgod ’s ideas or other shared features? If we could collaborate on one design for both LX & LC, it would certainly simplify things.

Does anyone see an issue moving mounting points inward a little on KDSS? Is 10-15mm thickness a good starting point? 1/2” offset forward?

Maturing this thing
- Two sets of mounting holes. One for minor locating forward while keeping the sway link in the LCA bucket. Another set further forward for outside the LCA bucket. A slot would be questionable whether it'll allow slip over time, so the somewhat overlapping holes will key it in position better. Or completely separate holes if the KDSS bar needs to be located that far forward?
- Thread the other holes for the relocated sway bar bracket, avoiding nuts the backside to interfere with the chassis rail
- Needs clamps to make sure the sway bar doesn't move side to side

That said I’m having trouble visualizing how moving anything inward helps (or even happens) as the KDSS arm mounts to both the sway bar and the LCA

It incrementally changes the motion ratio, frame relative to wheel travel, on the sway bar. Also instead of wheel motion only translated to torsion on the middle section of the sway bar, added flex will take place on the now unsupported corner of the sway. Both things should reduce the overall spring rate of the bar. I wish I could say how much less rate, but this is more trial and error.

It all remains to be proven and I'm hesitant for anyone to produce this. It's easy enough to create as a one off to test prior to that.

 

[bloc]

KDSS sway bars already have locating rings on both sides of each bushing. Also at some point the arm/cylinder end of the front bar can see a bending movement as it curves forward to attach to the arm end.

 

[TeCKis300]

KDSS sway bars already have locating rings on both sides of each bushing.

Yes. But they have been known to slip in other models with KDSS when seeing more aggressive articulation. There's similar aftermarket rings to prevent that.

 

[linuxgod]

Maturing this thing
- Two sets of mounting holes. One for minor locating forward while keeping the sway link in the LCA bucket. Another set further forward for outside the LCA bucket. A slot would be questionable whether it'll allow slip over time, so the somewhat overlapping holes will key it in position better. Or completely separate holes if the KDSS bar needs to be located that far forward?
- Thread the other holes for the relocated sway bar bracket, avoiding nuts the backside to interfere with the chassis rail
- Needs clamps to make sure the sway bar doesn't move side to side



It incrementally changes the motion ratio, frame relative to wheel travel, on the sway bar. Also instead of wheel motion only translated to torsion on the middle section of the sway bar, added flex will take place on the now unsupported corner of the sway. Both things should reduce the overall spring rate of the bar. I wish I could say how much less rate, but this is more trial and error.

It all remains to be proven and I'm hesitant for anyone to produce this. It's easy enough to create as a one off to test prior to that.

View attachment 3569591

Ah ok I thought this was to help clearance, not flex. The thing is want to be careful of is that right now the relo kit sits between the bar and the frame. If you move the bar mount inward, it’s no longer pushing directly up against the frame. Instead you’ve created a lever and I’d be concerned about that plate flexing and eventually failing. I think it would need to be gussetted and have a perpendicular section that bolted into the side of the frame somehow.

 

[bloc]

One other thing.. from a past conversation with Taco, at some point of tire size and flex, even if you get the bar and arm out of the way, the tire starts to tear up the boot on the kdss cylinder leading to obvious problems keeping the area as clean as is needed for a hydraulic system. The cylinder does swing forward when the bar does, but only one end of it. So eventually there are diminishing returns on this particular clearance issue.

 

[TeCKis300]

Ah ok I thought this was to help clearance, not flex. The thing is want to be careful of is that right now the relo kit sits between the bar and the frame. If you move the bar mount inward, it’s no longer pushing directly up against the frame. Instead you’ve created a lever and I’d be concerned about that plate flexing and eventually failing. I think it would need to be gussetted and have a perpendicular section that bolted into the side of the frame somehow.

It can help with clearance and flex. Definitely a good point on the cantilevered offset, and this should be done as a minor tailoring rather than a gross adjustment. The aluminum block should be thick with enough structure to handle the offset. Perhaps it should be steel to minimize potential for fatigue failures especially with KDSS. AHC setups will see less stress on this part than the beefier KDSS bar so maybe they should be separate applications.

One other thing.. from a past conversation with Taco, at some point of tire size and flex, even if you get the bar and arm out of the way, the tire starts to tear up the boot on the kdss cylinder leading to obvious problems keeping the area as clean as is needed for a hydraulic system. The cylinder does swing forward when the bar does, but only one end of it. So eventually there are diminishing returns on this particular clearance issue.

At more extreme modifications, it's my opinion that KDSS has less value, and perhaps should be deleted. Not only clearance. But there are off-road performance reasons including better corrugation and medium bump compliance where the system doesn't unlock and upsets the chassis. Most LCs at the level of modification also run higher spring rates which itself will contribute to roll management. I think a tender LX570 sway added to the front will do nicely to compliment this type of setup. Question has always been what to do with the rear. I've been running around this past week with my rear sway bar disengaged (broken link, my fault). While it's not terrible and still towed great, when off-road, the rear axle already does more of its share to articulation. Having a rear bar does balance out the articulation at the front to keep tires down, and keeping the rig more level overall. Perhaps the rear KDSS sway bar can be retrofitted with a locked out static link in place of the cylinder, but also with some geometry adjustments to make the bar tender enough. Then again, welding on a driver side bracket to access the LX570 rear bar isn't that hard. We're already welding on panhard correction brackets.

 

[bloc]

It can help with clearance and flex. Definitely a good point on the cantilevered offset, and this should be done as a minor tailoring rather than a gross adjustment. The aluminum block should be thick with enough structure to handle the offset. Perhaps it should be steel to minimize potential for fatigue failures especially with KDSS. AHC setups will see less stress on this part than the beefier KDSS bar so maybe they should be separate applications.



At more extreme modifications, it's my opinion that KDSS has less value, and perhaps should be deleted. Not only clearance. But there are off-road performance reasons including better corrugation and medium bump compliance where the system doesn't unlock and upsets the chassis. Most LCs at the level of modification also run higher spring rates which itself will contribute to roll management. I think a tender LX570 sway added to the front will do nicely to compliment this type of setup. Question has always been what to do with the rear. I've been running around this past week with my rear sway bar disengaged (broken link, my fault). While it's not terrible and still towed great, when off-road, the rear axle already does more of its share to articulation. Having a rear bar does balance out the articulation at the front to keep tires down, and keeping the rig more level overall. Perhaps the rear KDSS sway bar can be retrofitted with a locked out static link in place of the cylinder, but also with some geometry adjustments to make the bar tender enough. Then again, welding on a driver side bracket to access the LX570 rear bar isn't that hard. We're already welding on panhard correction brackets.

Agreed there’s definitely a blurry line where it’s advantageous to ditch KDSS in favor of LX bar/bars, but if possible to keep it we might as well. Even if it’s not perfect the combination of articulation and road manners in a passive system that is generally low maintenance and quite reliable is.. great.

I was just pointing out yet another not often discussed consideration if it will be kept.

 

[toofrigginswt]

If @Rusty Hinge doesn't do it, I may have the time, motivation and resources to do it over the next 30-45 days.

I’d buy your kit.

 

[linuxgod]

Agreed there’s definitely a blurry line where it’s advantageous to ditch KDSS in favor of LX bar/bars, but if possible to keep it we might as well. Even if it’s not perfect the combination of articulation and road manners in a passive system that is generally low maintenance and quite reliable is.. great.

I was just pointing out yet another not often discussed consideration if it will be kept.

Honestly I'd be happy with a heavy sway bar and an electronic sway bar disconnect switch. I mean it's slightly convenient to not need to engage/disengage but I doubt I really need KDSS unless I'm going offroad at which point I'm pushing all sorts of other buttons anyway.