Gumby,
Now you are knee deep in Woods and Woods, lol
Now you are knee deep in Woods and Woods, lol
Builds 86 4runner build
- Thread starter Gumby
- Start date
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Pretty certain there are two first gen bodies.
D21FJ60
#LiveLaughLove.
ah right then, missed that one i did
- Thread starter
- #184
I honestly have no interest in a 2nd gen, not a big fan of the even gens.
I got a $600 1st gen and loved it enough to get a clean frame and better body for it. The situation kinda evolved into trading the 3rz swap for a 5vz. Now there’s not a lot of the first truck left, but it was fun to drive for a couple of years and hopefully what’s left can be used by someone else.
Besides, doing the work is a lot of the point for me.
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joseywales
Renaissance Redneck
ntsqd
technerd
My local 4x4 mentor told me that I should buy a 2nd or later for the rear coil springs. Said that we could do an air spring system to keep the ride height consistent in the rear. I just could not go there, no matter how attractive that idea might be. I've flirted with retrofitting the later coil/linkage suspension to my first gen. Likely a bigger project than I want to tackle at this time.
ntsqd
technerd
I did. Some reason that I shouldn't?
If being odd is wrong, baby I don’t want to be right.
- Thread starter
- #190
ntsqd
technerd
I can see that. The geometry of the linkage is crucial to how it performs, and no matter what you do it is a compromise somewhere. Partly why mine still has leaf springs. Although I did do the GM 63's spacer mod to the OME springs and that seems to be working well.
- Thread starter
- #192
It runs and drives, barely. The throttle sticks, it has a miss, the brakes are squishy, the pcm is on the passenger floor, but it moves itself. That’s good because I painted the cab forward yesterday and needed it out of the shop to paint the tailgate.
Just a matter of buttoning up about a million things now.
Just a matter of buttoning up about a million things now.
ntsqd
technerd
I read somewhere a guy saying 90% of the effort is the last 10% of the project and that really jelled it for me. I'd never thought of it so concisely.
- Thread starter
- #194
Some update pics. Under bumper valance needs to be ordered. Right bumper end will be here this weekend.
White top with good L trim got painted semi-gloss black. Interior was painted medium gray vinyl paint. I used the old gray headliner.
Mustang hood scoop painted silver. Thought about flat black, but like it silver.
Tailgate is all together. It does make the quarters look bad. That’s gonna be a cold weather project. Welding and grinding are best done with pants.
I think I need to take out the ball joint spacers so it sits level with the top on and tucks the 31s in a bit.
Runs good and drives well, but it has a dead injector. Ordered 6 new. Had to drop the cat today to move the upstream O2. Went with a weld in bung and a threaded universal denso rather than trying to make a Toyota one work. Looking forward to a v6 with fuel feedback rather than a base map v5.
Michigan sec of state is closed. Advice is just drive it on the title as long as you have insurance, so that’s what I’m doing.
White top with good L trim got painted semi-gloss black. Interior was painted medium gray vinyl paint. I used the old gray headliner.
Mustang hood scoop painted silver. Thought about flat black, but like it silver.
Tailgate is all together. It does make the quarters look bad. That’s gonna be a cold weather project. Welding and grinding are best done with pants.
I think I need to take out the ball joint spacers so it sits level with the top on and tucks the 31s in a bit.
Runs good and drives well, but it has a dead injector. Ordered 6 new. Had to drop the cat today to move the upstream O2. Went with a weld in bung and a threaded universal denso rather than trying to make a Toyota one work. Looking forward to a v6 with fuel feedback rather than a base map v5.
Michigan sec of state is closed. Advice is just drive it on the title as long as you have insurance, so that’s what I’m doing.
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- Thread starter
- #195
86 is dead. Not many good parts left on it. It was a very sad day.
scrap yard gave me $44 for it.
scrap yard gave me $44 for it.
ntsqd
technerd
Dang, I've been wanting a second hard top for some experiments. Getting it here might have been more $$ than it was worth, but still.....
Considering the rusted out hulks we have out here in Pennsylvania, that looks pristine!
- Thread starter
- #198
Been quite a journey. Kept me busy during the COVIDs.
The 5 speed I was going to use out of the 97 4runner has the wrong bolt pattern for a gear drive case adapter. I swapped it for an auto with the proper side drop from a T100, but I hated it. The running problem I talk about below was terrible with the auto and it was no fun to drive. I also began to suspect the wiring harness from the auto truck that had been hacked into and probed through the wires in many places. Multiple PCMs would not communicate with a scan tool and it would not communicate with every single sensor and relay disconnected. I switched to a 96 T100 5 speed and harness and at least I can drive around the problem thats still there. The auto wanted to be in the problem rpm range all of the time and accelerating from a stop was very difficult. The manual harness will communicate with a scan tool as well.
The big problem has been a miss/ stutter off idle, especially under load. 1500-2500 rpm. The problem should have been an easy fix except the PCM refused to communicate. I've had to use a meter and the FSM to diagnose and it did not go well. The T100 manual harness did communicate with the PCM, but it will only do so in basic OBDII mode and not full data stream mode. I don't know why. Quite probably my crappy scan tool.
The MAF and TPS are the obvious culprits. The TPS tests perfect at the sensor and back probing the PCM. The MAF is out of spec by .2V, but 4 of them test exactly the same and none solve the problem. All have been cleaned.
Fortunately I have a good friend who has a business parting 3rd gens and T100s and he was the guy who foisted this project on me in the first place. I've been able to swap a lot of parts around when proper diagnostics have failed. In fact I now have a complete 2nd engine to play with
CKP and CMP both test fine when testing frequency at the PCM, but I don't have a lab scope to check wave form patterns. Changing the CMP seems to help a lot. Which is weird in itself as CMP should either fix the problem or not, not improve it. The bolt is frozen on the CKP, but it tests well within spec on frequency and resistance. I can't really test when it's breaking up under load though. No CKP or CMP data on the scan tool. I have been spraying penetrating oil on the bolt for the last three days and hope I can get it out without having to pull the whole oil pump housing. It's about the last sensor that was on the original engine. a weak one could absolutely cause the problem as well.
New injectors, coils and plugs. Wires test good and two sets have no change between them. Igniter tests good and 3 different ones all work the same
Fuel pressure and volume is excellent. I've run two tanks through and no change.
Vacuum is actually outstanding. 24 in/hg with no fluctuation at all. Compression is 165-170 across the board cold. Valves look amazingly clean looking down the ports. Valve clearances look good and, again, vacuum is steady. Vacuum and high speed operation also suggest the exhaust is flowing just fine without any excessive backpressure.
Timing belt, tensioner and crank gear are new. Checked multiple times with the marks and by confirming TDC at the piston top.
No leaks between the MAF and throttle body. The MAF reads good and the hose is new.
Fuel trim goes lean during the stutter, indicating a miss. It straightens back up above 3k and at idle. smells sulphery initially after the stutter like the cat is cleaning up raw fuel. At cruise and idle the O2 bounces between 0.2 and 0.8V in a nice sine wave.
No misfire codes which is really weird as you can feel the misfire and you can induce a misfire code by pulling an injector connector.
I did get a KPS code. Changed the knock sensors and sub harness. The one with the code tested poorly. out of spec on frequency. No KPS sensor data on the scan tool. No performance change after the KPS change. And the code came back. Id suspect a mechanical problem causing a knocking noise and retarding the timing, but I don't hear anything. the code and the frequency on the sensor indicated a lack of signal, not too much of one, and the timing is advancing just fine. It seems to idle really close to base timing, 9 degrees. but it advances to mid to high 20s with RPM.
Im really not getting as many codes as I should. The downstream cat is in-op, the EVAP isn't hooked up, the vss isn't reading on the scan tool and it clearly still has a problem, but the light stays out and no codes are present in history or pending, except for the KPS.
Grounds have been checked and rechecked. 0.01V drop at the PCM to the engine or chassis. Alternator is charging well and no AC voltage present so it's not a bad diode causing havoc with the PCM.
I've been driving it, hoping it will fix itself in typical Toyota fashion, but nothing yet. When its working it is effortlessly fast. After an alignment it cruises at 75 with no drama or lack of power. I'm really happy I went with the 5 speed and the 5vz, but it would be nice if I could fix this damn miss.
The 5 speed I was going to use out of the 97 4runner has the wrong bolt pattern for a gear drive case adapter. I swapped it for an auto with the proper side drop from a T100, but I hated it. The running problem I talk about below was terrible with the auto and it was no fun to drive. I also began to suspect the wiring harness from the auto truck that had been hacked into and probed through the wires in many places. Multiple PCMs would not communicate with a scan tool and it would not communicate with every single sensor and relay disconnected. I switched to a 96 T100 5 speed and harness and at least I can drive around the problem thats still there. The auto wanted to be in the problem rpm range all of the time and accelerating from a stop was very difficult. The manual harness will communicate with a scan tool as well.
The big problem has been a miss/ stutter off idle, especially under load. 1500-2500 rpm. The problem should have been an easy fix except the PCM refused to communicate. I've had to use a meter and the FSM to diagnose and it did not go well. The T100 manual harness did communicate with the PCM, but it will only do so in basic OBDII mode and not full data stream mode. I don't know why. Quite probably my crappy scan tool.
The MAF and TPS are the obvious culprits. The TPS tests perfect at the sensor and back probing the PCM. The MAF is out of spec by .2V, but 4 of them test exactly the same and none solve the problem. All have been cleaned.
Fortunately I have a good friend who has a business parting 3rd gens and T100s and he was the guy who foisted this project on me in the first place. I've been able to swap a lot of parts around when proper diagnostics have failed. In fact I now have a complete 2nd engine to play with
CKP and CMP both test fine when testing frequency at the PCM, but I don't have a lab scope to check wave form patterns. Changing the CMP seems to help a lot. Which is weird in itself as CMP should either fix the problem or not, not improve it. The bolt is frozen on the CKP, but it tests well within spec on frequency and resistance. I can't really test when it's breaking up under load though. No CKP or CMP data on the scan tool. I have been spraying penetrating oil on the bolt for the last three days and hope I can get it out without having to pull the whole oil pump housing. It's about the last sensor that was on the original engine. a weak one could absolutely cause the problem as well.
New injectors, coils and plugs. Wires test good and two sets have no change between them. Igniter tests good and 3 different ones all work the same
Fuel pressure and volume is excellent. I've run two tanks through and no change.
Vacuum is actually outstanding. 24 in/hg with no fluctuation at all. Compression is 165-170 across the board cold. Valves look amazingly clean looking down the ports. Valve clearances look good and, again, vacuum is steady. Vacuum and high speed operation also suggest the exhaust is flowing just fine without any excessive backpressure.
Timing belt, tensioner and crank gear are new. Checked multiple times with the marks and by confirming TDC at the piston top.
No leaks between the MAF and throttle body. The MAF reads good and the hose is new.
Fuel trim goes lean during the stutter, indicating a miss. It straightens back up above 3k and at idle. smells sulphery initially after the stutter like the cat is cleaning up raw fuel. At cruise and idle the O2 bounces between 0.2 and 0.8V in a nice sine wave.
No misfire codes which is really weird as you can feel the misfire and you can induce a misfire code by pulling an injector connector.
I did get a KPS code. Changed the knock sensors and sub harness. The one with the code tested poorly. out of spec on frequency. No KPS sensor data on the scan tool. No performance change after the KPS change. And the code came back. Id suspect a mechanical problem causing a knocking noise and retarding the timing, but I don't hear anything. the code and the frequency on the sensor indicated a lack of signal, not too much of one, and the timing is advancing just fine. It seems to idle really close to base timing, 9 degrees. but it advances to mid to high 20s with RPM.
Im really not getting as many codes as I should. The downstream cat is in-op, the EVAP isn't hooked up, the vss isn't reading on the scan tool and it clearly still has a problem, but the light stays out and no codes are present in history or pending, except for the KPS.
Grounds have been checked and rechecked. 0.01V drop at the PCM to the engine or chassis. Alternator is charging well and no AC voltage present so it's not a bad diode causing havoc with the PCM.
I've been driving it, hoping it will fix itself in typical Toyota fashion, but nothing yet. When its working it is effortlessly fast. After an alignment it cruises at 75 with no drama or lack of power. I'm really happy I went with the 5 speed and the 5vz, but it would be nice if I could fix this damn miss.
- Thread starter
- #200
Yes. The current one controls idle very well now that it's been cleaned. I have had several both with and without the dashpot that comes on the manual ones. In fact, that helped with the initial off idle stumble that was so bad it was hard to get started. Now it gets off the line pretty well.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take all the help I can get at this point.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take all the help I can get at this point.
