hamishpotter
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thanks. yah sent an email right after I posted that. will put up anything I find..
80 shock thread - familiar territory could use update
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thanks. yah sent an email right after I posted that. will put up anything I find..
Although reducing the nitrogen pressure can make the shock softer it should not be used as a way of “tuning”. If lowering the pressure removes the harshness that is undesirable it should only be done temporarily to identify that the compression valving internally needs to be adjusted.
What you have done buy dropping pressure is allowed the shock to cavitate and pull a vacuum on the rebound side of the piston, this is bad for the oil, causes a momentary loss of rebound just following a fast compression, and over time will suck air in past the shaft seals and emulsify the shock.
I was told the nitrogen charge range was 100-250psi. Do you run the shocks all at max pressure?
The nitrogen was not removed to remove harshness. The harshness was compared to OME shocks.
The nitrogen was not removed to remove harshness. The harshness was compared to OME shocks.
It depends on the amount of compression valving in the shock
A stiffer shock like most of the IFS shocks are charged to 250. The lighter valving on many of the direct to axle shocks are 180-220. On some special reservoir out the bottom configurations with heavy rebound we need to go up to 350
The shocks that have the CDC compression adjuster are all at 150 because the adjuster has the added benefit of preventing cavitation buy boosting back pressure only when the shock is moving faster.
Ultimately you don’t want to much more pressure than what is necessary for it to operate correctly as the excess pressure does slightly add to the seal friction drag and a little extra nose force. But you do want at least a little margin over the bare min pressure
If you’ve had the opportunity to get a good amount of heat in them and you notice a change that’s also an indication of not enough pressure. As they heat up the nitrogen pressure goes up and the cavitation is reduced. A correctly functioning shock should have very little change through most of the heat range until it is boiling the fluid and about to grenade. Many people perceive that the shock is fading making it ride harsh when in fact it is just working better and making more force.
On my Slee's for the 80 I found 120 to be the sweet spot for a mostly pavement ( albeit miserable roads in houston).... the 150 was a bit "crisp" but did corner a bit better.... 120 seemed to be the best all around for a fully built rig IMHO.....
The Icons' I had on my 100 I LOVED..... they're really smooth and I loved the ability to tighten up the ride for a highwaty run to NOLA but then run them soft around town over the potholes....
Both are great options IMHO - Slee/ ADS are amazingly well built and thought out, and the Icons as well but they offer a bit of easily dialed in adjsutment.... it really comes down to the need but neither will be a bad choice....
I debated Icon's for the new "heep" project but am going to try the Metalcloak 6packs to start .... then Icond Coilovers if that doesn't work, but my test rides in a MC rig were amazing....
BTW the jeep world is so different I still find myself surfing over here..... someday hopefully we'll have a Toyota topless options again....
cheers
E
The Icons' I had on my 100 I LOVED..... they're really smooth and I loved the ability to tighten up the ride for a highwaty run to NOLA but then run them soft around town over the potholes....
Both are great options IMHO - Slee/ ADS are amazingly well built and thought out, and the Icons as well but they offer a bit of easily dialed in adjsutment.... it really comes down to the need but neither will be a bad choice....
I debated Icon's for the new "heep" project but am going to try the Metalcloak 6packs to start .... then Icond Coilovers if that doesn't work, but my test rides in a MC rig were amazing....
BTW the jeep world is so different I still find myself surfing over here..... someday hopefully we'll have a Toyota topless options again....
cheers
E
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Araco Master
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Without wanting to sound like an infomercial, I have to say we have ended up doing what we are now, because it was the best we were using, in our experience, having built, had built, and used pretty much every well known brand over the years.
Sonny at Down South Motorsports, who was building some stuff for us back then, introduced us to ICON as he could see what we wanted, and what ICON were doing would fit well with what we wanted. Like Slee Offroad, his customer focus put what we were looking for above what he could just keep selling us, and for that I will always be grateful. Slee is another product we use, purely because its the best we can get in that particular market, with great service, no other reason.
I thought it important to put some back story in, as we have always been on a search for the best product we can use, not what we can access, is in stock, or has the best margin or marketing.
I have to say I am a big CDC fan.
Along with the manifold on the shock body, for built in bump zone as well.
Once we started using the ICON shocks, and CDC resi 2.5s, we stopped using any other brand, regardless of how well marketed they were, or sticker value added, because they just werent the same, even the custom ones we were having made from them.
Dylan has also been very good to help us with what we need, and make an ICON shock what it is, as someone who has a fantastic engineering head, but can get information across in a very easy to understand sentence, as his posts above show. All solids, no "fluff" .
[Having been a Bilstein dealer for over 10 years, I have to say the 2.0 Icons are also very good in this market for us on toyota trucks too, as a side note, with the German versions being a 2.0 benchmark here in Aus for heavy trucks when made to Aus spec requirement.]
Having said all that, why arent we having Slee Shocks on the shelf too? If we could of easily got the Slee shocks availability, and lengths we needed for our market, while Slee was selling as many as could be made, its the only other one we would sell for Cruiser fitment, having driven on them as well.
One of the reasons for good custom shocks is when you go to a resi, you can move the piston and gas space into the resi, so you can shorten the body by this distance, to give better travel for shorter compressed length, compared to just talking shock stroke for sizing, which means a compromise in comp with spacers, or not enough travel to get ideal max down travel.
On my USA based SNOWY truck, with our tapered wire progressive rate coils, when I head from Slee Offroad to Cruise Moab, I run CDC setting 8 all round to help with roll steer, and soak up the highway bumps loaded, and when airing down to run trails, I reach in same time and go to 5 front and 4 rear as my off road set up, with our custom ICON slinky long travel set up. Turning them up on road, especially on the fast windy highways, has a similar effect to adding another sway bar, and eliminating roll steer in the rear, because its not leaning.
On setting 8 on the hwy, cracks, joins, cats eyes you can hear but not feel, as you go over them.
Woody has the same set up as Snowy, but with intermediate 200-250kg [ 450lb] instead of HD 400-450kg [900lb] rear coils, with no rear wheel carrier hanging out back. We wanted real time feedback from someone who lives the USA wheeling life, compared to us visiting, and knowing what we need here.
Monotube high pressure gas, and CDC style adjustment [In cab the ideal CDC set up please DylanICON] are shocks evolving, and in the next 5 years twin tube style shocks will be seen as the old oil filled paddle box damper, [10 years will be seen as fibre disc and wing nut friction devices!] because especially on heavy trucks, you will never get a twin tube low pressure shock to do what a high pressure monotube does.
A knock on effect of this is because corner speeds are automatically higher, as it feels safer, and the bumps are smoother, on a big heavy truck, with big wheels, the brakes then start to feel like they arent working as well any more, compared to when dancing around on bumps, double dip steering input for corners because of roll steer etc, had you going slower, instead.
If you want to buy shocks purely on price, and be happy, do yourself a favor and dont ride in a vehicle fitted with Slee or ICON .
or sorry, USA version of driver - passenger
Just sharing my experience as a person with a passion for it, not a business.
Sonny at Down South Motorsports, who was building some stuff for us back then, introduced us to ICON as he could see what we wanted, and what ICON were doing would fit well with what we wanted. Like Slee Offroad, his customer focus put what we were looking for above what he could just keep selling us, and for that I will always be grateful. Slee is another product we use, purely because its the best we can get in that particular market, with great service, no other reason.
I thought it important to put some back story in, as we have always been on a search for the best product we can use, not what we can access, is in stock, or has the best margin or marketing.
I have to say I am a big CDC fan.
Along with the manifold on the shock body, for built in bump zone as well.
Once we started using the ICON shocks, and CDC resi 2.5s, we stopped using any other brand, regardless of how well marketed they were, or sticker value added, because they just werent the same, even the custom ones we were having made from them.
Dylan has also been very good to help us with what we need, and make an ICON shock what it is, as someone who has a fantastic engineering head, but can get information across in a very easy to understand sentence, as his posts above show. All solids, no "fluff" .
[Having been a Bilstein dealer for over 10 years, I have to say the 2.0 Icons are also very good in this market for us on toyota trucks too, as a side note, with the German versions being a 2.0 benchmark here in Aus for heavy trucks when made to Aus spec requirement.]
Having said all that, why arent we having Slee Shocks on the shelf too? If we could of easily got the Slee shocks availability, and lengths we needed for our market, while Slee was selling as many as could be made, its the only other one we would sell for Cruiser fitment, having driven on them as well.
One of the reasons for good custom shocks is when you go to a resi, you can move the piston and gas space into the resi, so you can shorten the body by this distance, to give better travel for shorter compressed length, compared to just talking shock stroke for sizing, which means a compromise in comp with spacers, or not enough travel to get ideal max down travel.
On my USA based SNOWY truck, with our tapered wire progressive rate coils, when I head from Slee Offroad to Cruise Moab, I run CDC setting 8 all round to help with roll steer, and soak up the highway bumps loaded, and when airing down to run trails, I reach in same time and go to 5 front and 4 rear as my off road set up, with our custom ICON slinky long travel set up. Turning them up on road, especially on the fast windy highways, has a similar effect to adding another sway bar, and eliminating roll steer in the rear, because its not leaning.
On setting 8 on the hwy, cracks, joins, cats eyes you can hear but not feel, as you go over them.
Woody has the same set up as Snowy, but with intermediate 200-250kg [ 450lb] instead of HD 400-450kg [900lb] rear coils, with no rear wheel carrier hanging out back. We wanted real time feedback from someone who lives the USA wheeling life, compared to us visiting, and knowing what we need here.
Monotube high pressure gas, and CDC style adjustment [In cab the ideal CDC set up please DylanICON] are shocks evolving, and in the next 5 years twin tube style shocks will be seen as the old oil filled paddle box damper, [10 years will be seen as fibre disc and wing nut friction devices!] because especially on heavy trucks, you will never get a twin tube low pressure shock to do what a high pressure monotube does.
A knock on effect of this is because corner speeds are automatically higher, as it feels safer, and the bumps are smoother, on a big heavy truck, with big wheels, the brakes then start to feel like they arent working as well any more, compared to when dancing around on bumps, double dip steering input for corners because of roll steer etc, had you going slower, instead.
If you want to buy shocks purely on price, and be happy, do yourself a favor and dont ride in a vehicle fitted with Slee or ICON .
or sorry, USA version of driver - passenger Just sharing my experience as a person with a passion for it, not a business.
Without wanting to sound like an infomercial, I have to say we have ended up doing what we are now, because it was the best we were using, in our experience, having built, had built, and used pretty much every well known brand over the years.
Sonny at Down South Motorsports, who was building some stuff for us back then, introduced us to ICON as he could see what we wanted, and what ICON were doing would fit well with what we wanted. Like Slee Offroad, his customer focus put what we were looking for above what he could just keep selling us, and for that I will always be grateful. Slee is another product we use, purely because its the best we can get in that particular market, with great service, no other reason.
I thought it important to put some back story in, as we have always been on a search for the best product we can use, not what we can access, is in stock, or has the best margin or marketing.
I have to say I am a big CDC fan.
Along with the manifold on the shock body, for built in bump zone as well.
Once we started using the ICON shocks, and CDC resi 2.5s, we stopped using any other brand, regardless of how well marketed they were, or sticker value added, because they just werent the same, even the custom ones we were having made from them.
Dylan has also been very good to help us with what we need, and make an ICON shock what it is, as someone who has a fantastic engineering head, but can get information across in a very easy to understand sentence, as his posts above show. All solids, no "fluff" .
[Having been a Bilstein dealer for over 10 years, I have to say the 2.0 Icons are also very good in this market for us on toyota trucks too, as a side note, with the German versions being a 2.0 benchmark here in Aus for heavy trucks when made to Aus spec requirement.]
Having said all that, why arent we having Slee Shocks on the shelf too? If we could of easily got the Slee shocks availability, and lengths we needed for our market, while Slee was selling as many as could be made, its the only other one we would sell for Cruiser fitment, having driven on them as well.
One of the reasons for good custom shocks is when you go to a resi, you can move the piston and gas space into the resi, so you can shorten the body by this distance, to give better travel for shorter compressed length, compared to just talking shock stroke for sizing, which means a compromise in comp with spacers, or not enough travel to get ideal max down travel.
On my USA based SNOWY truck, with our tapered wire progressive rate coils, when I head from Slee Offroad to Cruise Moab, I run CDC setting 8 all round to help with roll steer, and soak up the highway bumps loaded, and when airing down to run trails, I reach in same time and go to 5 front and 4 rear as my off road set up, with our custom ICON slinky long travel set up. Turning them up on road, especially on the fast windy highways, has a similar effect to adding another sway bar, and eliminating roll steer in the rear, because its not leaning.
On setting 8 on the hwy, cracks, joins, cats eyes you can hear but not feel, as you go over them.
Woody has the same set up as Snowy, but with intermediate 200-250kg [ 450lb] instead of HD 400-450kg [900lb] rear coils, with no rear wheel carrier hanging out back. We wanted real time feedback from someone who lives the USA wheeling life, compared to us visiting, and knowing what we need here.
Monotube high pressure gas, and CDC style adjustment [In cab the ideal CDC set up please DylanICON] are shocks evolving, and in the next 5 years twin tube style shocks will be seen as the old oil filled paddle box damper, [10 years will be seen as fibre disc and wing nut friction devices!] because especially on heavy trucks, you will never get a twin tube low pressure shock to do what a high pressure monotube does.
A knock on effect of this is because corner speeds are automatically higher, as it feels safer, and the bumps are smoother, on a big heavy truck, with big wheels, the brakes then start to feel like they arent working as well any more, compared to when dancing around on bumps, double dip steering input for corners because of roll steer etc, had you going slower, instead.
If you want to buy shocks purely on price, and be happy, do yourself a favor and dont ride in a vehicle fitted with Slee or ICON .
Just sharing my experience as a person with a passion for it, not a business.
How do i get a hold of your slinky coils? I'm about to pull the trigger on springs and need some bad.
hamishpotter
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #89
Yes can you give more info on the slinky's
It looks like the "slinky" coils are coilover shocks if you look at the pics he posted. Cutting and welding is required, not a bolt on solution. I am also interested in better replacement springs. I don't know what brand mine are, but it sits stinkbug even when loaded down and I would like to level it out some.
Last edited:
AutoCraft Aus
Araco Master
- Joined
- May 20, 2008
- Threads
- 15
- Messages
- 918
- Location
- Central Victoria, desert region.
- Website
- 4xoaus.com.au
Actually, no,
I have fitted coil overs and bypasses to my 80 for a different project, using the same shock and coil over to fit 80/105 and patrol front kits, with the 80/105s to hopefully be installed into Aus spec RHD FJ Utes, if we can get them engineered for registration here.
We have had the front coil over kits engineered for Patrols here already. [Our road rules are VERY tight on mods]
no welding required for this kit, but yes, a little cutting
Our slinky coils are a dual rate tapered wire coil set up we took alot of time to get right back in the mid 2000's as a direct replacement to use our 12" stroke shocks, and install kit.
This design gives us 4" extra free height over a normal length coil for the lift, and keeps a softer rate when articulated, for better suspension movement without being at the full coil rate, so the vehicle doesnt pitch around, but sits on its primary rate at ride height.
We have one front set up, and we have 3 rear set ups intermediate, HD and EHD.
We find this is the maximum height before roll steer and bump steer issues come up, and with 2 degree bushes and washer mod caster can be easily set correctly, and we use offset bearings to dial in some neg camber, and some more caster as well.
I have fitted coil overs and bypasses to my 80 for a different project, using the same shock and coil over to fit 80/105 and patrol front kits, with the 80/105s to hopefully be installed into Aus spec RHD FJ Utes, if we can get them engineered for registration here.
We have had the front coil over kits engineered for Patrols here already. [Our road rules are VERY tight on mods]
no welding required for this kit, but yes, a little cutting
Our slinky coils are a dual rate tapered wire coil set up we took alot of time to get right back in the mid 2000's as a direct replacement to use our 12" stroke shocks, and install kit.
This design gives us 4" extra free height over a normal length coil for the lift, and keeps a softer rate when articulated, for better suspension movement without being at the full coil rate, so the vehicle doesnt pitch around, but sits on its primary rate at ride height.
We have one front set up, and we have 3 rear set ups intermediate, HD and EHD.
We find this is the maximum height before roll steer and bump steer issues come up, and with 2 degree bushes and washer mod caster can be easily set correctly, and we use offset bearings to dial in some neg camber, and some more caster as well.
I'm really looking forward to these being available here. I'm not a rock crawler, I think what we do here on the east coast is more like the wheeling/overlanding done in Australia.
hamishpotter
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #93
Those look excellent, and I'm same as above
Actually, no,
I have fitted coil overs and bypasses to my 80 for a different project, using the same shock and coil over to fit 80/105 and patrol front kits, with the 80/105s to hopefully be installed into Aus spec RHD FJ Utes, if we can get them engineered for registration here.
We have had the front coil over kits engineered for Patrols here already. [Our road rules are VERY tight on mods]
no welding required for this kit, but yes, a little cutting
Our slinky coils are a dual rate tapered wire coil set up we took alot of time to get right back in the mid 2000's as a direct replacement to use our 12" stroke shocks, and install kit.
This design gives us 4" extra free height over a normal length coil for the lift, and keeps a softer rate when articulated, for better suspension movement without being at the full coil rate, so the vehicle doesnt pitch around, but sits on its primary rate at ride height.
We have one front set up, and we have 3 rear set ups intermediate, HD and EHD.
We find this is the maximum height before roll steer and bump steer issues come up, and with 2 degree bushes and washer mod caster can be easily set correctly, and we use offset bearings to dial in some neg camber, and some more caster as well.
So can we get these springs through Icon here in the states? They are just down the road from Eibach, who could certainly replicate these springs for the US market if not.
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Araco Master
- Joined
- May 20, 2008
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- 15
- Messages
- 918
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- Central Victoria, desert region.
- Website
- 4xoaus.com.au
There has been some discussion around this in the past, but the 200 sets per part No per order has been the issue, to replicate the spring design.
With the Aus $ being 1/3 down on the U.S $ this also improves the price in the market in U.S $.
We have our shocks built by ICON, the only coil we use form them is the 52800 3" HD dual rate for the FJ Cruiser, everything else we have made here in Aus.
You better open your wallet really wide, as I think he said he needs 200 sets ordered. lol.
Per part number. $80,000 or so total. I bet a box of beer that eibach makes a spring those dimensions and spring rate already for some application or another. Jeep XJ maybe?
Darren and I talked about this when we first started working together a couple years ago
Eibach unfortunately is not interested in doing the tapered wire design. I’ve talked to some manufacturers state side that can but it takes some arm twisting. You see it more in the OE because it is a very space and weight efficient way of doing a variable but not low volume friendly or cost effective. Luckily Darren has gotten someone to do it.
To further add to what Darren was explaining: Even the 850J spring will be quite loose at droop with our 0-3” shock because the lift is gained more buy increasing rate than adding to the free length. Here are some pics of the vehicle with the springs removed but shocks connected sitting full weight on the factory bump stops then with the front and rear jacked up to the end of the shocks. It cycles over 12” of (strait up and down) travel front and rear.
To get the spring to not only stay seated but also make the travel you have perform fully you have to either: increase lift height or reduce spring rate. When we go dual rate you can make it so it droops soft to stay seated like the slinky coils or start softer and stiffens later like these coils
These should be available in January
