80 shock thread - familiar territory could use update (2 Viewers)

[DylanICON]

Be interesting to see how they go price wise vs the Aus version with the 1/3 price reduction of the Aus $.

Hopefully they will work with a full 12" stroke shock, rather than just the 670mm long ones ?

They are not quite as long free ht as yours. they have been optimized for our 0-3" shocks. ride height is just about in the middle of travel (6" up and 6" down)
your coil would be more appropriate for really heavy vehicles.

on a side note: people tend to go to the heavy OME springs prematurely in my opinion. some of those rates are in the range of superduty rear spring rates.

 

[Tapage]

@DylanICON will the bump kits for the FJC or 4runner fit the 80?

X2 sweet setup .. !

 

[biker1007]

I'm running the common j front and heavy rear only because of length to keep the spring contained with the 10" shocks. I agree they are much stiffer than what I would like, but all the dimensions on softer springs seem too short. I've even considered putting the stock springs back in with spacers, but haven't gotten around to measuring if I would over compress.

I plan to buy a set of progressive coils as soon as they're Availible.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

on a side note: people tend to go to the heavy OME springs prematurely in my opinion. some of those rates are in the range of superduty rear spring rates.

I agree, back in the day, the rates for coil sprung vehicles were a little of an unknown for design.

Some of those designs havent changed since the 80 came out from some suppliers.

Most of our coils even in normal lift, we have gone softer rate, and taller free height, so the ride unloaded isnt compromised, but the coil comes back to its set ride height for the load its rated at.

Especially rear coils.

We also use air bags in the coils for loaded vs unloaded top up if touring only once or twice a year, and by using a bag that doesnt touch the spring seat when the vehicle is unloaded, it doest ramp up spring rate straight away when at minimum pressure, and not touching both ends.

These done need max pressure to be of us, most times 8-12 psi [max 30] is enough to be part of the compression cycle for more spring rate.

I have also run them in the front of my 80s in the past, to up the spring rate for fast outback heavy loaded driving, to give the bump stops a rest


The FJ bumps we are working on front and rear kits for 80 100 and 200 here, the bumps will work, just need fabbed bracket etc to fit.

 

[LFD2037]

They are not quite as long free ht as yours. they have been optimized for our 0-3" shocks. ride height is just about in the middle of travel (6" up and 6" down)
your coil would be more appropriate for really heavy vehicles.

on a side note: people tend to go to the heavy OME springs prematurely in my opinion. some of those rates are in the range of superduty rear spring rates.

So you're saying the new 3" springs you'll be coming out with will be using the current 0-3" lift shocks? I hope not. That's the same boat were already in with all the current available lifts. Building a spring around a shock seems backwards (but then again, I'm no expert!).

 

[DylanICON]

@DylanICON will the bump kits for the FJC or 4runner fit the 80?

the FJ one will not fit.
the 80 has a metal center in the middle of the spring that is part of the frame above the rubber cone.
it would require hole sawing the center out to sink the bump up inside.
a front air bump is on the list of possible product development but isn't at the top yet.

 

[DylanICON]

So you're saying the new 3" springs you'll be coming out with will be using the current 0-3" lift shocks? I hope not. That's the same boat were already in with all the current available lifts. Building a spring around a shock seems backwards (but then again, I'm no expert!).

Except the current 0-3" shock will out droop all currently available springs except slinky.
the spring was necessary to realize the full potential of the existing shock.

I could have called the same shock a 0-4" or 0-5" because it goes to full factory bump (0") and would still have decent droop at 5" of lift.

Because 4" of lift is when, typically, bump stop spacers are added this allows us to split the application and make a longer "compressed length" shock with even more droop. It is also important to have a longer "compressed length" shock when bump stop spacers are added to fully utilize the bump zone.

 

[DylanICON]

I'm running the common j front and heavy rear only because of length to keep the spring contained with the 10" shocks. I agree they are much stiffer than what I would like, but all the dimensions on softer springs seem too short. I've even considered putting the stock springs back in with spacers, but haven't gotten around to measuring if I would over compress.

I plan to buy a set of progressive coils as soon as they're Availible.

That's exactly the situation that led to making this spring.

the 0-3" shocks are 11.3" travel front and 10.3" rear. Front will out travel a J spring. if your not running a lot of weight this puts you in a less the desirable height and ride.

 

[97 greenmonster]

I can't wait to see what you come up with in January, I've wanted to run icon shocks sense I first read about them but couldn't decide on a spring that would work best for the shocks. Well now it's all coming together. Thanks

 

[LFD2037]

Except the current 0-3" shock will out droop all currently available springs except slinky.
the spring was necessary to realize the full potential of the existing shock.

I could have called the same shock a 0-4" or 0-5" because it goes to full factory bump (0") and would still have decent droop at 5" of lift.

Because 4" of lift is when, typically, bump stop spacers are added this allows us to split the application and make a longer "compressed length" shock with even more droop. It is also important to have a longer "compressed length" shock when bump stop spacers are added to fully utilize the bump zone.

Are you referring to your stage 1 shocks or the stage 2/3 shocks? Im not sure what the compressed/extended lengths of your shocks are and didn't see it listed on you website. I'm referring to non-resi shocks. If you are referring to your non-resi shocks, that will out droop all current available non slinky springs, can you tell me comp./ext. measurements? I haven't found a non-resi 80 specific shock designed for 0-3" lift that will out droop ANY 2.5" springs. maybe yours are just what I've been looking for! Thanks.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

All the stages are same length front and rear in 2.0 and 2.5 from Icon with 670mm [26.4"] drooped as I have referred in earlier posts in this thread, and they just fit with the standard bump stops, so you get maximum travel from this due to the comp and extended lengths.

On an 80 you also need a 40mm front sway bar spacer to stop the driveshaft touching the sway bar at droop with that length shock.

We have been asking Icon about making alot of these type of things in the past for us, and hopefully as they will need them to go with the shocks and coils themselves, we will be able to look at doing more.

We currently use a factory looking rear bump stop for our slinky long travels at 725mm [28.5] and 12" stroke, as we have some states that specifiy maximum change in bump stop distance for ride ehight, or total travel.

If the bump stop looks factory, it works

We have to holesaw the rear spring mount to fit air bags, so to fit the bumps is going to be as simple as air bags in the long run, we hope,

 

[DylanICON]

Are you referring to your stage 1 shocks or the stage 2/3 shocks? Im not sure what the compressed/extended lengths of your shocks are and didn't see it listed on you website. I'm referring to non-resi shocks. If you are referring to your non-resi shocks, that will out droop all current available non slinky springs, can you tell me comp./ext. measurements? I haven't found a non-resi 80 specific shock designed for 0-3" lift that will out droop ANY 2.5" springs. maybe yours are just what I've been looking for! Thanks.

the stage 1 2.0" and the stage 2/3 2.5" shocks are very close on length

2.0 IFP front 15.35 / 26.17
2.0 IFP rear 15.60 / 25.67

2.5 resi front 15.35 / 26.68
2.5 resi rear 15.97 / 26.30

So the 863J REAR spring would be just barly snug with the 2.0IFP.

 

[LFD2037]

the stage 1 2.0" and the stage 2/3 2.5" shocks are very close on length

2.0 IFP front 15.35 / 26.17
2.0 IFP rear 15.60 / 25.67

2.5 resi front 15.35 / 26.68
2.5 resi rear 15.97 / 26.30

So the 863J REAR spring would be just barly snug with the 2.0IFP.

So your 2.0's are longer than OME regulars but shorter than OME L's. Hmmmmmm. I was under the impression L's were too short to lose a J spring/863 rear (w/full armor), and have seen people successfully run L's with non-J springs (no armor). Having said that, what am I missing here that makes your 2.0's the dialed-in length for 3" springs? Thanks for all your input and patience with my OCD!

 

[S.CarolinaFZJ80]

Dylan,
What vehicle weight is your spring going to be optimized for?

 

[DylanICON]

Dylan,
What vehicle weight is your spring going to be optimized for?

5500-6500 ish
mine is about 5700 with the winch and bumper. The front wont vary as much as the back because that is where peoples set ups vary the most. mine is a bit light in the back with not much stuff as a DD.

The rear dual rate will help compensate for extra load. The front dual rate is set up ride well but be able to be driven harder as it engages later

preliminary rates are
190/300 front
200/280 rear
I may tweak them a bit after further testing

for comparison the 850/860 are 220 front and rear. stock is 160 front, 170 rear. LX is softer yet

 

[hamishpotter]

these sound great. put me down for a set when they are ready.

thank you for providing great products (for 80s), and keep it up!

 

[DylanICON]

So your 2.0's are longer than OME regulars but shorter than OME L's. Hmmmmmm. I was under the impression L's were too short to lose a J spring/863 rear (w/full armor), and have seen people successfully run L's with non-J springs (no armor). Having said that, what am I missing here that makes your 2.0's the dialed-in length for 3" springs? Thanks for all your input and patience any OCD!

do you have those #'s handy?

I tried a few different springs. most were just slightly loose in the rear. but significantly loose in front


This set up may not be "dialed in" for everyone but my design philosophy is this:

Start at full compression, don't limit up travel if at all possible
Find the limits of extension travel. solve the limits that are reasonable to address. (in this case it was shock mounting points and internal shock packaging.) limits removed are sway bar drops, break lines, and caster correction.
Set ride heights and distance to bump.
Back calculate spring rate to realize full travel and adjust from there for ride and dynamics goals
Test
Adjust
Test

Its not that its the "dialed in length for 3" springs", its as much functionality as I could package in under the parameters and the components all work together.

3" lift is NOT the most important quality of the spring in this case. The free length is. 3" lift is just what I picked for a number of reasons, then designed the rest of the spring and rates so that it ended up there.

 

[LFD2037]

do you have those #'s handy?

Yes, they are in my first post in this thread.
OME shock length just doesn't make sense!

OME shock lengths. Part #, compressed, extended & travel length

60018--14.1--24.3--10.2"

60020--14.9--24.6--9.7"

60070L--15--26.3--11.3"

60071L--15.2--26.9--11.3"

Factory front--13.9--23.7--9.8"

Factory rear--14.2--23.8--9.6"

Thanks.

 

[LFD2037]

Some interesting lift numbers here as well for your reading pleasure.

Cruiser Outfitters

 

[GW Nugget]

Maybe we should define how to measure a shock. If measured differently it can add to the confusion.
How does Icon measure compaired to OME?
Bolt center to bushing washer? etc...