2f vs LS - A Character Discussion (1 Viewer)

[Carp]

I know that the virtues of both powertrains have been discussed ad nauseum and I understand the pros and cons to both. What I was hoping to hear from people is how they feel that the character of the truck changed after going from the 2f to the LS? In particular, part of the fun of driving one of these 60 series is the rugged fast tractor feeling that you get from the 2f.

For those of you who have either done the swap or driven both styles of trucks, do you ever find yourself feeling like you should have stayed with the 2f? If so, why? If not, is there anything that you do miss from the 2f days?

My truck has 241k and is going to need a head gasket and potentially bearings in the near future. I'm really torn on rebuilding the 2f for a bit more power and keeping the truck's nature intact or modernizing to the venerable LS.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cruisermatt]

 

[Tennessee80]

Great thread question, since there is something very visceral about the old iron. I would imagine most cruiser owners are torn between the old school and modern...!

 

[zprovo]

I was (am) definitely torn. I have pulled out the 2F to make room for the LS, but I am documenting the hell out of it just in case someone might / maybe want to put the 2F back?

 

[Tennessee80]

I was (am) definitely torn. I have pulled out the 2F to make room for the LS, but I am documenting the hell out of it just in case someone might / maybe want to put the 2F back?

Hey man, I’m in Nashville area, would love to check out what you’re doing. PM me if you want to talk cruisers

Joel

 

[tclark]

Great thread question, since there is something very visceral about the old iron. I would imagine most cruiser owners are torn between the old school and modern...!

I have been there for a while as I knew the day would come when I needed to make that decision, and that day is near. I want more power for sure but I've driven tons of vehicles with LS engines, both oem and swapped in, and they just don't have that same "feel" to them. There's just something about that way the ole 2F feels that I love, so at this point I'm leaning heavy towards a 2FE. If I go V8 it'll likely be a TBI 350, or a Vortec with TBI on it. Their torque curve is similar to the 2F in that they make strong torque, and most of their power, in the low to mid rpms.

 

[Dynosoar]

Consider a TPI Gen I engine. Tons of low end torque (like a 2F only better) and decent (15-18 HWY - 12-15 City) MPG. However, the best measure for me is SPM (Smiles per Mile), I love driving my 60, and don't have to worry about blocking traffic on every mountain pass. I would never reverse the swap on my 60. That said, I did repower my 40 from a V8 to a 3FE/H55F/Spit Case combo.

Dyno

 

[erse]

The only thing to miss is how easy the 2f is to work on.

It depends how you use your vehicle but for most the vortec will be a winner especially for those of us in the west. Try to find and buy some parts for a vortec vs. a 2f and things really start to make sense.


Does it change the character of the vehicle? Well that's a mighty philosophical question.

Where does character reside? Is it solely or predominantly contained in the engine or heart? Did my friend who had a heart transplant lose character? or gain some from the donor? the donor was female does he now like lifetime television and coasters? I have yet to pin down the answers to these questions.

I recently hopped straight from my rig into a 2f powered rig for a test drive and I loved it. Would I love it on a lonely mountain pass loaded up with camping gear and people and dogs well maybe or maybe not.

There are rigs out there that should stay stock and there are those that are dying for a re-power. There is no one right answer. It just depends on where you and the rig are in time. I will say this though if you are considering it, try to get a drive in one with a swap. Thats not easy to find but it may help you answer the question for yourself.

 

[Tennessee80]

The only thing to miss is how easy the 2f is to work on.

It depends how you use your vehicle but for most the vortec will be a winner especially for those of us in the west. Try to find and buy some parts for a vortec vs. a 2f and things really start to make sense.


Does it change the character of the vehicle? Well that's a mighty philosophical question.

Where does character reside? Is it solely or predominantly contained in the engine or heart? Did my friend who had a heart transplant lose character? or gain some from the donor? the donor was female does he now like lifetime television and coasters? I have yet to pin down the answers to these questions.

I recently hopped straight from my rig into a 2f powered rig for a test drive and I loved it. Would I love it on a lonely mountain pass loaded up with camping gear and people and dogs well maybe or maybe not.

There are rigs out there that should stay stock and there are those that are dying for a re-power. There is no one right answer. It just depends on where you and the rig are in time. I will say this though if you are considering it, try to get a drive in one with a swap. Thats not easy to find but it may help you answer the question for yourself.

Well said!!

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

The LS is pretty darn easy to work on. In fact many basic jobs are a lot easier on the LS. I wouldn’t use that as a deciding factor.

I have a great running 2f with 4 speed in my 87 and a 5.3l in my 84 with 4l60e automatic. The 2f is very satisfying to drive and shift. My decision to convert the one truck was based on my decision to make a 60 my primary driver. Freeway on ramps, Interatate traffic, trailer towing all reveal the limitations of the 2f in modern life. The LS conversion solves those issues and keeps the truck relevant and practical. The driving experience is certainly different but who could complain about the acceleration and power of the LS?

Ed

 

[OSS]

I willing to take the wrath:

In my opinion, an FJ60 without a 2F isn't a land cruiser anymore. No exceptions. It may look like one- but it's not.

 

[Hojack]

I willing to take the wrath:

In my opinion, an FJ60 without a 2F isn't a land cruiser anymore. No exceptions. It may look like one- but it's not.

But what about one with a diesel motor? Still has that tractor feeling.

 

[gt7058a]

@Hojack - The diesel’s like the half special needs brother to the 2F. Always slower but way stronger! Just kidding, I still want one and like your build thread.

 

[SNLC]

I know that the virtues of both powertrains have been discussed ad nauseum and I understand the pros and cons to both. What I was hoping to hear from people is how they feel that the character of the truck changed after going from the 2f to the LS? In particular, part of the fun of driving one of these 60 series is the rugged fast tractor feeling that you get from the 2f.

For those of you who have either done the swap or driven both styles of trucks, do you ever find yourself feeling like you should have stayed with the 2f? If so, why? If not, is there anything that you do miss from the 2f days?

My truck has 241k and is going to need a head gasket and potentially bearings in the near future. I'm really torn on rebuilding the 2f for a bit more power and keeping the truck's nature intact or modernizing to the venerable LS.

Thanks in advance.

Nope never!

The 2/3F in the 1980's and even into the 90's was adequate. You do realize for much of this era the speed limit across America was 55mph!? That is why 55mph is highlighted in the FJ60 speedo.

Now take that old truck and move it into the 2000-teens where speed limits are 70-80mph across the country. The old 2/3F isn't cutting it so good anymore is it!?

This is when a v8 swap comes into play. Sure you don't need it if you have all the time in the world. Sure you don't need it if you don't mind doing 55-65mph in the slow lane. It is a bomber engine after all right!


Me!? I had an 87 FJ60 back in 1990-93. I loved it! It took me as a young man all up and down the west coast of this country. I learned to off-road in it, I went camping in it all the time, I got laid in the back and me and my friends all partied like rock starts in-out of the truck. Back then it worked great and I sure have great memories of it!

Fast forward to 2012, I got a FJ60 with a ramjet v8 swapped in, 400hp! Not only that it had a Ranger OD box giving it 8 speeds. I will never go back to the old 2/3F again!

But hey, that is just me, some folks like doing 55-65mph in the slow lane and have all the time in the world.

Cheers

 

[NCFJ]

'sThe Character in any vehicle is far more than just the engine.

That said I will just say this..............

I hear all the time from people against a V8 swap for one reason or another " It's nice to just cruise along slow and enjoy the ride"

My response " I can drive just as slow in a swapped 60 as you do with the 2F, you on the other hand can not keep up if I choose to go fast"

There is far more to it than just speed.

 

[FJ60Cam]

No regerts here! It got a similar change of character as when I put on a lift, or bigger tires, lockers, sliders, etc...

...for me, the LS has only enhanced the character of the truck. It has actually enabled me to do more of what I wanted to do with my truck in the first place (epic camping trips to far off places). The group(s) I travel with are more likely to be mostly comprised of 80s, 100s, and even Four Runners than stock FJ60s, so they travel at normal modern speeds (not 55).

There is absolutely zero loss of low end torque jumping to an LS, that is a myth. It just happens to make more than double the power as you mash the pedal further, which makes climbing steep grades loaded down with gear an effortless task.

The REAL solution to the is to own multiple trucks

 

[bridges]

Another for no regrets when driving a V8, that said I can't bring myself to actually swap one and instead I will buy one that has already been converted and then clean up the mess. I'm one that enjoys a good mystery which is generally the case for someone else's home swap (case in point is Granny's Tupperware fuse box under the hood of my new one).

Seems it would be even harder for me to justify now that the 60 has moved into the microscope of the collector crowd. Taking one from original is a tough decision when there are others out there that have already 'de-valued' the cruiser (with a V8 but all other conditions being equal) in the market place. No offense to swappers, I also see them as higher in daily use value, but the market doesn't always agree with us on that.

I've had a carb'd V8 '82, a bone stock '84, a de-smogged '85 and as of last week after a 5 year hiatus I'm back in the 60 saddle with a TBI V8. I enjoy the low rpm torque as mentioned above on the TBI but I can't compare to an LS conversion as I haven't driven one of those.

As some have stated, this will be my daily driver so mixed in with a plethora of 400 hp 8000lb trucks on winding roads, I like the get out of the way factor with the V8.

EDIT: to make sure I address the original question, I still love the character of this truck, it still rides around like she is 30 years old, still smells 30 years old, just goes better when you hit the skinny pedal.

 

[White Stripe]

A 2f is slightly inadequate in a 40 series. In a 60 series it is terribly inadequate. Unless you only use your 60 series to go to the local ice cream stand, a motor swap is the way to go. And 60 series even bone stock restored aren't worth that much compared to other classic vehicle like a old bronco or something so its not like your losing 40k in value by installing a v8. But then the question is-diesel or v8?

 

[jakerudy]

I know that the virtues of both powertrains have been discussed ad nauseum and I understand the pros and cons to both. What I was hoping to hear from people is how they feel that the character of the truck changed after going from the 2f to the LS? In particular, part of the fun of driving one of these 60 series is the rugged fast tractor feeling that you get from the 2f.

For those of you who have either done the swap or driven both styles of trucks, do you ever find yourself feeling like you should have stayed with the 2f? If so, why? If not, is there anything that you do miss from the 2f days?

My truck has 241k and is going to need a head gasket and potentially bearings in the near future. I'm really torn on rebuilding the 2f for a bit more power and keeping the truck's nature intact or modernizing to the venerable LS.

Thanks in advance.

I don't have experience with the LS swap but can assure you that you wouldn't lose the tractor feeling with a diesel. Mine sounds and smokes like a tractor that can go faster than you should in a FJ60 and accelerate up any hill I've found. In 4 low I'm not sure what it would take to lug it down. I lived with the 2F for almost 20 years and don't regret my conversion at all.

Have you ever driven a vehicle and thought "If only it had less power?".

 

[MoaByte]

But the cool factor of a manual choke and being EMP bomb resistant is worth way more than being able to pass minivans. And the confusion of folks when the carb fan is running and you are walking away. You will miss it. A little... I'm sure.