2F Oil Loss (1 Viewer)

[love2fly]

Been hunting down what maybe causing some oil loss in my 1982 2F engine.
Engine was rebuilt almost 4,500 miles ago.
Engine will loose close too one quart of oil every 500-600 miles.
Compression is were it should be. No seal leaks from around the oil pan or front area of crank shaft. Valve cover is without seeps.
Some blue (not light) form exhaust if revved several times hard in a row. Head gasket seems to be good, oil is not contaminated with water.
Engine leak down check shows no problems anywhere on the top or bottom of the engine.
I am now focused on the PVC system thinking that the loss may be contributed to the system it shelf.
The hose / tube runs as it should from the side crack case / PVC valve across to the intake manifold nipple under the carb base area as seen.
PVC valve is fully functional and clean and have three that have been rotated in to see if one maybe defected, all are good.
I starting to believe that maybe the vacuum from the intake manifold may be to much causing excessive oil pull into the intake but have no way to check. I have checked inside the tube on the .manifold side and it appears clean without any oil build up inside but has the stain around the carbs base.
Question is - would this be a possible place to focus more attention on and what should now be checked ?

Thanks in advance

 

[1911]

... I starting to believe that maybe the vacuum from the intake manifold may be to much causing excessive oil pull into the intake but have no way to check. I have checked inside the tube on the .manifold side and it appears clean without any oil build up inside but has the stain around the carbs base.
Question is - would this be a possible place to focus more attention on and what should now be checked ?

In my experience, it is more likely to be the oil control rings on the pistons. Who did the rebuild? Did they carefully set the ring end gaps? The end gap spec is different, for different brands of rings. Some oil control rings have separate pieces that must be assembled in the correct order. There is also a spec for the ring groove clearances. All of these small details matter in a bottom-end rebuild.

 

[love2fly]

All was done buy a pro engine shop with my rebuild manual to support the special attention to the 2F builds.
Cheers

 

[charliemeyer007]

Did you use break in oil (non detergent) for the first oil on the re-build? Get a bore scope and look in all the spark plug holes - glazed bore - the rings didn't seat correctly.

 

[igotta40]

My oil seemed to be disappearing from my 2F for a while after it was freshly rebuilt, then the problem went away. It has about 29,000 on the rebuild now.

 

[love2fly]

I used a straight 30W oil for brake in non detergent and I bore scoped a few months back and it looks good in all cylinders. but the plugs were in need of cleaning.

 

[charliemeyer007]

Pull the plugs, squirt in a few cc's of Marvels in each cylinder, use the starter for like 20 seconds to distribute the oil. Clean and gap all the plugs - make sure the center electrode is square edged. Let the Marvels work on the rings for a few days. Start it up and let it idle for a few minutes to burn off the oil. Then block off most of the radiator; the goal is to get the engine hotter than normal but not over heated - if your gauge normally is 1/2 way, then wait until its 3/4. Pull the cardboard and go for a long mixed speed cruise - freeway & back roads, use the gears to vary engine speed/load. Do a 100 miles / couple of hours before shutting it off.

 

[fjc-man]

Do you know what style valve stem seals were installed? Umbrella style or the later viton style?

 

[pb4ugo]

Looking at the plug, it appears your burning the oil.

 

[love2fly]

Yes thats why I posted the picture of one, oil maybe being pulled into the intake as I said by way of PVC system.

Cheers

 

[pb4ugo]

With the engine off, can you look down the carb with the throttle blades open and see if the intake has oil in it? You might have to pull the carb to see. With the engine running remove the oil fill and see if there's any blow by/smoke coming out.

 

[SteveH]

I presume you don't see any blue smoke on shifts? I vote valve stem seals, but I presume they were replaced with quality parts during the rebuild, so maybe that's not it.

Can you make a temporary PCV 'catch can' and see if it quickly fills with oil?

 

[love2fly]

You guy have some good points, as for the valve guilds they were new but you mention valve stem seals, that one I am not to sure if they were even installed. I would think they were but I will need to check,
Hard to see if I am blowing blue smoke while shifting but as I said if I rev the engine about 6 - 7 times then let it idle for about 30 seconds and then rev it I can get a faint puff of blue smoke but not every time.
I will use my bore scope and look into the T-body (intake) as noted and see what shows.
Also will check while running with oil filer cap off to see if it shows smoke.
The temporary PCV 'catch can my be a challenge but will see if we can get it to do anything in the way of oil drops.
I have some time off today so I will dive into it.

Thanks guys

 

[middlecalf]

Some $’s and more of a permanent addition. I used the Chevy one.

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[love2fly]

Yeah I can see they are not cheap in price.
Well I started the oil change a bit ago, and while letting the 2F get hot, I let it idle a bit then gave it a rev, this showed a puff of blue smoke, not heavy but one were it was noticeable. So it's loading up on the idle so its now making me believe that it maybe in the valve train, guilds, or stems or? I gave it a valve adjustment last year so that had been checked.
I also did a prob with a bore scope into each cylinder and took a few pictures. One can see the hone pattern and it shows no deep scratches or loading of oil in the bottom around the piston top. Unfortunately my scope does not do a 180 view where I possibly could get a picture of the valves but as far as the rings go they are fine.
There is a trace of oil in the intake below the carbs base area, I could not get the scope into the small cavity of the carb but it shows signs oil.
I am going to do a leak down check along with a compression check next just to be sure.
If all goes well I will divert my attention to the valves.
The plugs look a bit crappy after only 100-200 miles
Cheers

 

[love2fly]

more pic

 

[love2fly]

plugs

 

[1911]

Cross hatch doesn't look too bad; a bit coarse but they did hone them. That last cyl has some scoring though.

 

[Skreddy]

Why not just unhook the PCV and drive it a few days and see if the problem goes away? I don’t think it will because if you were getting that much oil through it, the PCV and the inside of the hose should be soaked in oil and readily noticeable.

 

[love2fly]

Just warped up the oil change and compression and leak down check and all is good???
While doing al that I removed the PVC valve and wrapped a white cloth around the end of the hose to see how gravity would help on any drips from the hose and it actuly had enough to now buy another PVC valve and give it a try again.
In the mean time yes the cylinders walls do have a few vertical line but not enough to be overly concerned right now.
I am thinking that the oil has to be being pulled into the intake and diluted with the fuel just enough to lightly coat the spark plugs.
When cleaning the plugs it was actuly very soft and cleaned easy with just a tooth brush.
I might give the disconnecting the PVC system a try and see were that goes later, but after I get that new PVC valve and see what that does.
I am with a fine collection of PVC valves.

Thanks guys