2018 200 series vs GX550 (1 Viewer)

[xeuxaz]

If it is manufacturing debris that caused all the problems, that's a really good thing because it can (was?) easily fixed and there will be an end date to the production period.

How did it happen in the USA and JP?

 

[OregonLC]

How did it happen in the USA and JP?

I had assumed that with the (relatively) limited production volume that there was a single V35A factory? No?

The other question from the recall is does the date range apply to the VIN or to the date the engine was manufactured? Or more specifically when was the engine machined. Could it be that engines installed in early 2024 were actually machined as early as Feb 2023? Toyota is known for lean manufacturing so that much inventory on hand doesn't seem to align with their cost controls but in the world of supply chain issues who knows.

 

[skrypj]

If it is manufacturing debris that caused all the problems, that's a really good thing because it can (was?) easily fixed and there will be an end date to the production period.

Yes, but it seems suspicious because we have seen later 2023's and 2024's fail too.

Also, the fact that the recall is not covering hybrids and Sequoias is also weird because the engine is physically the same, just with an electric motor bolted between the motor and transmission.

How did it happen in the USA and JP?

Because, like I have been saying all along, Toyota either screwed up the manufacturing process or there was a design issue with the engine.

This wasn't just because Billy Bob at the Alabama assembly plant didnt do his job right for an entire year without noticing.

And its not because the engine was overstressed.

I had assumed that with the (relatively) limited production volume that there was a single V35A factory? No?

The other question from the recall is does the date range apply to the VIN or to the date the engine was manufactured? Or more specifically when was the engine machined. Could it be that engines installed in early 2024 were actually machined as early as Feb 2023? Toyota is known for lean manufacturing so that much inventory on hand doesn't seem to align with their cost controls but in the world of supply chain issues who knows.

There are two factories. Japan built trucks(everything besides the Tundra/Sequoia) get Japan built motors and US built trucks(Tundra and Sequoia) get the US built motors.

 

[skrypj]

Whats astonishing to me is that they say in the press release and recall letter

"In the involved vehicles, this can lead to potential engine knocking, engine rough running, engine no start and/or a loss of motive power. A loss of motive power while driving at higher speeds can increase the risk of a crash."

So basically they are saying the the engine could die while going 80 down the highway and you might crash.

What that says to me is that they cannot just slap an extended warranty on the affected trucks. A 150k mile warranty is not going to help you when the motor seizes while flying down the highway with a 10000 lb trailer behind you. They actually have to do something about this and "fix" nearly 100,000 vehicles. I wonder what that will consist of? Short of replacing the motor, or pulling the oil pan and inspecting the bearings, how do you know for sure an engine isnt going to fail?

 

[BadReligion]

And its not because the engine was overstressed.

Agreed. This is all BS about the V35A being "overstressed." 100hp/L for a forced induction engine is nothing. BMW put out NA motors that were over 110hp/L over 2 decades ago, and those motors can easily do 200k mi (S54 found in the E46 M3).

What that says to me is that they cannot just slap an extended warranty on the affected trucks. A 150k mile warranty is not going to help you when the motor seizes while flying down the highway with a 10000 lb trailer behind you. They actually have to do something about this and "fix" nearly 100,000 vehicles. I wonder what that will consist of? Short of replacing the motor, or pulling the oil pan and inspecting the bearings, how do you know for sure an engine isnt going to fail?

If I were Toyota, I would be paying for oil changes every 5k mi for the next few years, and doing a Blackstone analysis every time. A lot cheaper than pulling oil pans on a preventative basis.

With that said, I have no worries at all buying a GX550.

0.5% failure rate on the "problem" motors from mostly 22-23, and now recognized and reportedly fixed by Toyota.

 

[2021 LC200]

Mumbus , you got to love the way the Aussies put it...

 

[bloc]

BMW put out NA motors that were over 110hp/L over 2 decades ago, and those motors can easily do 200k mi (S54 found in the E46 M3).

I see your point but a sports car engine is stressed in a very different way than an engine towing a large trailer on the highway for thousands of miles at a time. I'm not saying it's over-stressed, just that that's an apples/oranges comparison.

 

[M1911]

How did it happen in the USA and JP?

Two possibilities. First, I suspect the short block is only made in Japan and shipped to the US for assembly, so the problem could be there. Second, the two assembly lines follow the same process, so the flaw could be in that process.

 

[skrypj]

Two possibilities. First, I suspect the short block is only made in Japan and shipped to the US for assembly, so the problem could be there. Second, the two assembly lines follow the same process, so the flaw could be in that process.

I believe the block is machined in their Tennesse plant and sent to Alabama for assembly.

 

[M1911]

I believe the block is machined in their Tennesse plant and sent to Alabama for assembly.

Then the issue is more likely a process which both plants follow.

 

[skrypj]

Then the issue is more likely a process which both plants follow.

Agree'd. They either screwed something up with the process or screwed something up with the fundamental design.

 

[BadReligion]

I see your point but a sports car engine is stressed in a very different way than an engine towing a large trailer on the highway for thousands of miles at a time. I'm not saying it's over-stressed, just that that's an apples/oranges comparison.

The biggest problem with any type of forced induction is more heat and complexity, which results in decreased overall engine life and reliability.

I would have been more than fine with an updated 3UR going into the GX and 300 series, but completely see why Toyota (and most other manufacturers) are going smaller displacement with forced induction.

 

[OregonLC]

The biggest problem with any type of forced induction is more heat and complexity, which results in decreased overall engine life and reliability.

I would have been more than fine with an updated 3UR going into the GX and 300 series, but completely see why Toyota (and most other manufacturers) are going smaller displacement with forced induction.

Turbo diesels were long known for exceptional life spans. This mindset that it's not going to last as long implies ceteris paribus, that nothing else has been changed. Boosting a 3UR to 20 PSI would surely shorten its life, but a properly engineered machine should be able to last just as long.

 

[bloc]

The biggest problem with any type of forced induction is more heat and complexity, which results in decreased overall engine life and reliability.

I would have been more than fine with an updated 3UR going into the GX and 300 series, but completely see why Toyota (and most other manufacturers) are going smaller displacement with forced induction.

Ultimately my take on it is for the type of hard work (specifically) asked of truck platforms, turbo gas engines just aren't a good fit. Direct injection made them much much more appropriate than port, but they still don't handle the load as well as a turbodiesel or NA gas engine, in large part because of the point you make about heat.

The fact that most of these engines will spend most of their miles cruising around with virtually no load is what makes them possible on a fleet-wide scale, when I consider economics, fuel efficiency, durability, emissions, etc.
IMO, of course.

 

[tacoduck]

Ultimately my take on it is for the type of hard work (specifically) asked of truck platforms, turbo gas engines just aren't a good fit. Direct injection made them much much more appropriate than port, but they still don't handle the load as well as a turbodiesel or NA gas engine, in large part because of the point you make about heat.

The fact that most of these engines will spend most of their miles cruising around with virtually no load is what makes them possible on a fleet-wide scale, when I consider economics, fuel efficiency, durability, emissions, etc.
IMO, of course.

I had a ford ecoboost in my expedition and loved it. There has to be 5 million of those motors on the road doing truck things in the USA. I’ve heard of way more Toyota turbo engine failures vs the ecoboost.

Ford has loads of problems, and problem areas in the 3.5 ecoboost, but you never hear of them grenading at 1 year and or 30k miles.

 

[bloc]

I had a ford ecoboost in my expedition and loved it. There has to be 5 million of those motors on the road doing truck things in the USA. I’ve heard of way more Toyota turbo engine failures vs the ecoboost.

Ford has loads of problems, and problem areas in the 3.5 ecoboost, but you never hear of them grenading at 1 year and or 30k miles.

And how many Toyota 5.7 failures?

 

[skrypj]

Ultimately my take on it is for the type of hard work (specifically) asked of truck platforms, turbo gas engines just aren't a good fit. Direct injection made them much much more appropriate than port, but they still don't handle the load as well as a turbodiesel or NA gas engine, in large part because of the point you make about heat.

The fact that most of these engines will spend most of their miles cruising around with virtually no load is what makes them possible on a fleet-wide scale, when I consider economics, fuel efficiency, durability, emissions, etc.
IMO, of course.

If your only concern is reliability over everything else then you could argue that but there are plenty of benefits to GTDI's in truck applications, especially over a V8, and I would argue even small diesels. The 3.0 Duramax is the first half ton diesel I would consider.

I had a ford ecoboost in my expedition and loved it. There has to be 5 million of those motors on the road doing truck things in the USA. I’ve heard of way more Toyota turbo engine failures vs the ecoboost.

Ford has loads of problems, and problem areas in the 3.5 ecoboost, but you never hear of them grenading at 1 year and or 30k miles.

I agree. Loved mine. It’s so relaxed towing and just hums along like a sewing machine.

And how many Toyota 5.7 failures?

IDK, how many? I’ve certainly heard in a number. Broken valve springs and valves were definitely an issue at one point.

 

[bloc]

IDK, how many?

Less.

 

[skrypj]

Less.

Because they make less.

 

[M1911]

And how many Toyota 5.7 failures?

The 5.7 is reliable and durable, but it isn't perfect -- the first gen radiator crack, the difficulty of replacing the alternator, the valley plate leak, the secondary air injection issues, etc.