200 Series Portal Axles (4 Viewers)

[XFACTR]

How do you believe portals are going to “compromise” the 200 (other than the typical cons with portals - cost, maintenance, minor dip in HP)? I guess everyone’s use case is different, so the cons may not be worth it to some? But keeping suspension geometry (and factory AHC) while obtaining a 35% reduction in gearing and 5” of true clearance, the ability to run 40’s, and 8” of track width (although I know that can be a con as much as a pro in some cases) are incredible benefits. I work from home so I don’t need to drive every day.
I don’t know - using the word “compromise” has me curious? Are you just referring to the typical cons?
How do you believe it will be “worse overall”?

 

[Artie]

How do you believe portals are going to “compromise” the 200 (other than the typical cons with portals - cost, maintenance, minor dip in HP)? I guess everyone’s use case is different, so the cons may not be worth it to some? But keeping suspension geometry (and factory AHC) while obtaining a 35% reduction in gearing and 5” of true clearance, the ability to run 40’s, and 8” of track width (although I know that can be a con as much as a pro in some cases) are incredible benefits. I work from home so I don’t need to drive every day.
I don’t know - using the word “compromise” has me curious? Are you just referring to the typical cons?
How do you believe it will be “worse overall”?

This is going to sound really lame but the added attention these would draw would be a con for me. I may be mistaken but all the videos I’ve seen with portals take an already well built vehicle up like 3 notches in the cool and impressive department. That’s cool for cars and coffee or out on the trail but a drag when your just trying to get gas on a long day of road trip.

I am curious as to the day to day use with this mod. Can you tow an 4K pound camper and do a 700 mile day in comfort on these? I’m fully ignorant to them outside of the marketing videos I’ve seen.

 

[XFACTR]

This is going to sound really lame but the added attention these would draw would be a con for me. I may be mistaken but all the videos I’ve seen with portals take an already well built vehicle up like 3 notches in the cool and impressive department. That’s cool for cars and coffee or out on the trail but a drag when your just trying to get gas on a long day of road trip.

I am curious as to the day to day use with this mod. Can you tow an 4K pound camper and do a 700 mile day in comfort on these? I’m fully ignorant to them outside of the marketing videos I’ve seen.

From everything I’ve heard, yes you can tow and do long road trips with at least Werewolf Portals and 74 Weld. I’m not as well versed on the others.

 

[kong24680]

I’m planning to order the 74Weld portals for my 2021 LX once they’re released. Like @XFACTR, I want to retain the stock AHC system. I did consider the Werewolf setup, but after factoring in taxes and import costs, it ended up being significantly more expensive than the 74Weld option.

I spoke with James (cap10berry), who’s likely the first—and possibly the only—LX owner running the Werewolf portals. He’s had nothing but positive feedback. He installed the setup himself and said it was easy LOL. So far, he’s put about 3,000 miles on it with zero issues.

 

[linuxgod]

I’m planning to order the 74Weld portals for my 2021 LX once they’re released. Like @XFACTR, I want to retain the stock AHC system. I did consider the Werewolf setup, but after factoring in taxes and import costs, it ended up being significantly more expensive than the 74Weld option.

I spoke with James (cap10berry), who’s likely the first—and possibly the only—LX owner running the Werewolf portals. He’s had nothing but positive feedback. He installed the setup himself and said it was easy LOL. So far, he’s put about 3,000 miles on it with zero issues.

If this is the same James who was at Windrock in Oct I’ve seen his LX on 40s. Portals do add gobs of clearance, but due to the added track width I heard he also didn’t fit into the ruts like all the other trucks did. I think track width is both a pro (for highway handling) and a con (on trails). It would definitely prevent him from doing a tight trail like Elephant Hill.

He thought it rode well. I imagine towing anything heavy and big like a full travel trailer suck (similar to a F150 with an 8” lift) but maybe I’m wrong on that. He was still talking about regearing even though the portals have their own gear reduction.

Height wise he’s never fitting in another garage . It does look cool, though for $20k plus the effort to install (which is NOT a simple swap) I imagine I’d also look cool rolling up in a trail-ready Fj40

Pic of the truck next to an LC on measly 35s.

 

[XFACTR]

If this is the same James who was at Windrock in Oct I’ve seen his LX on 40s. Portals do add gobs of clearance, but due to the added track width I heard he also didn’t fit into the ruts like all the other trucks did. I think track width is both a pro (for highway handling) and a con (on trails). It would definitely prevent him from doing a tight trail like Elephant Hill.

He thought it rode well. I imagine towing anything heavy and big like a full travel trailer suck (similar to a F150 with an 8” lift) but maybe I’m wrong on that. He was still talking about regearing even though the portals have their own gear reduction.

Height wise he’s never fitting in another garage . It does look cool, though for $20k plus the effort to install (which is NOT a simple swap) I imagine I’d also look cool rolling up in a trail-ready Fj40

Pic of the truck next to an LC on measly 35s.
View attachment 3814727

Yes that’s who he is referring to. James had already done a tundra front end swap and is running 0 offset wheels. So he is yet another 8” wider than I’ll be after portal install. That scrub radius is crazy!
I’ve watched a lot of videos from 74 Weld and Werewolf. Maybe they’re biased of course, but everyone in the comments says you can tow with no issue.

 

[ikarus]

I haven’t read the whole thread but how much unsprung weight do these add?

 

[XFACTR]

Yes that’s who he is referring to. James had already done a tundra front end swap and is running 0 offset wheels. So he is yet another 8” wider than I’ll be after portal install. That scrub radius is crazy!
I’ve watched a lot of videos from 74 Weld and Werewolf. Maybe they’re biased of course, but everyone in the comments says you can tow with no issue.

Also there may be a misunderstanding regarding gearing. He had already regeared to 4.88’s before the portals. I don’t think he is regearing again. He’s already at like 6.5 gears.

 

[XFACTR]

I haven’t read the whole thread but how much unsprung weight do these add?

Werewolf (steel) is about 80lbs. 74 Weld might be a little less as they are aluminum. Helps with COG tho.

 

[XFACTR]

I agree so don't get me wrong. I'm curious about portals and like you, I suspect there are going to be some real trades. I'm friends with the owner of 74weld and even as he sings all the great things about them, there's certainly things like maintenance, additional wear/tear, MPG loss (less gearing but aero impacts with the tires beyond the body envelop, etc. that I think would take it too far for my use. Lots of the same drawbacks you could say about most mods and I use to think the same about 37s. Portals are going to be a solution to those with specific goals I can't fault that we have another option in the tool chest.

I do think there are some misconceptions based on old portal tech. Modern portals like Werewolf and 74 Weld don’t have temperature issues, can be daily driven, and you can even tow with them.

 

[hoser]

Werewolf (steel) is about 80lbs. 74 Weld might be a little less as they are aluminum. Helps with COG tho.

The Werewolf rears for the 4runner/Tacoma are 78lbs and the fronts were 106lbs. (total 368lbs)
The 74Welds rear 47lbs, front 56 lbs (total 206lbs)

Also there may be a misunderstanding regarding gearing. He had already regeared to 4.88’s before the portals. I don’t think he is regearing again. He’s already at like 6.5 gears.

I would guess he is re-gearing again, back to or closer to stock on the diffs.

 

[ikarus]

Don't get me wrong I'm all for spending money on mods and customizing vehicles.. but the main cons I'm seeing here are weight and track width.

I answered my own question and according to a Trail4Runner 74Weld vs Werewolf write up, 74Weld is the "lightweight" option, coming in at 56lbs per corner front, 47 lbs per corner rear (for the Tacoma portals). Werewolf meanwhile weighs 106 lbs front / 78 lbs rear. That's all unsprung weight

So take your nicely driving stock 200 that's relatively zippy, and say you're building a monster truck on 40s:
- For each corner add 56 lbs for the portal
- Add at least 10-30 lbs per corner for wheels because I assume you're going beadlocks on a truck like that, right? would be silly not to. I have forged beadlocks on my 80 but those still weigh about 30 lbs each
- And then 40s usually weigh 80-90 lbs per corner (can't remember how much a stock tire weighs, let's say 30 lbs

So you're looking at 150+ lbs of unsprung mass at each corner compared to 40-50 lbs stock. For a total additional unsprung weight of 400 lbs on the vehicle. I can hear the brakes, CVs and steering rack screaming in pain. haha. And the 3UR is gonna feel anemic. Maybe the reduction will help but gears can only go so far before you want a supercharger. Most Jeep guys I know upgrade their axles when adding 40s. I just don't know how much longevity you sacrifice.

And then they're saying 8" addition to the track width?

200 Series stock width = 78"
Add 8" for portals plus 1.5" for the recommended +25 offset and now your 200 is at 87.5" wide.

A HMMWV, since it was referenced earlier, is 84" wide. And a lot of guys already think the 200 is too wide for some technical trails.

For me that kills most of my interest in portals, that would be such a boat and as referenced earlier would make it difficult if not impossible to do some narrow trails like Elephant Hill and would make me nervous on narrow mountain roads with dropoffs. I don't know what that would do to the turning radius either when you're looking at trails with switchbacks like the Morrison Jeep trail.

If you live close to good wide trails where a few inches of ground clearance make the difference between making it up a trail? Sounds good.

If you're like me and you have to drive a few hours on the highway and/or a couple hours on dirt to get to a good trail? I'd rather stick with a more agile, lightweight setup on 34" tires.

I know @MTKID wheels hard with with his setup and he needs portals ASAP! haha but maybe I'm just not wheeling hard enough. I have yet to run into a trail that I would drag a 200 up but I can't because I need an additional 5" of ground clearance and 40s. I feel like a lot of trails are either 35" tires and lockers required, or it's buggy territory, and there's few in between.

But like I said, I'm all for modifying vehicles. I think portals and the tech are cool. I just wouldn't do it on my own 200.

 

[XFACTR]

Don't get me wrong I'm all for spending money on mods and customizing vehicles.. but the main cons I'm seeing here are weight and track width.

I answered my own question and according to a Trail4Runner 74Weld vs Werewolf write up, 74Weld is the "lightweight" option, coming in at 56lbs per corner front, 47 lbs per corner rear (for the Tacoma portals). Werewolf meanwhile weighs 106 lbs front / 78 lbs rear. That's all unsprung weight

So take your nicely driving stock 200 that's relatively zippy, and say you're building a monster truck on 40s:
- For each corner add 56 lbs for the portal
- Add at least 10-30 lbs per corner for wheels because I assume you're going beadlocks on a truck like that, right? would be silly not to. I have forged beadlocks on my 80 but those still weigh about 30 lbs each
- And then 40s usually weigh 80-90 lbs per corner (can't remember how much a stock tire weighs, let's say 30 lbs

So you're looking at 150+ lbs of unsprung mass at each corner compared to 40-50 lbs stock. For a total additional unsprung weight of 400 lbs on the vehicle. I can hear the brakes, CVs and steering rack screaming in pain. haha. And the 3UR is gonna feel anemic. Maybe the reduction will help but gears can only go so far before you want a supercharger. Most Jeep guys I know upgrade their axles when adding 40s. I just don't know how much longevity you sacrifice.

And then they're saying 8" addition to the track width?

200 Series stock width = 78"
Add 8" for portals plus 1.5" for the recommended +25 offset and now your 200 is at 87.5" wide.

A HMMWV, since it was referenced earlier, is 84" wide. And a lot of guys already think the 200 is too wide for some technical trails.

For me that kills most of my interest in portals, that would be such a boat and as referenced earlier would make it difficult if not impossible to do some narrow trails like Elephant Hill and would make me nervous on narrow mountain roads with dropoffs. I don't know what that would do to the turning radius either when you're looking at trails with switchbacks like the Morrison Jeep trail.

If you live close to good wide trails where a few inches of ground clearance make the difference between making it up a trail? Sounds good.

If you're like me and you have to drive a few hours on the highway and/or a couple hours on dirt to get to a good trail? I'd rather stick with a more agile, lightweight setup on 34" tires.

I know @MTKID wheels hard with with his setup and he needs portals ASAP! haha but maybe I'm just not wheeling hard enough. I have yet to run into a trail that I would drag a 200 up but I can't because I need an additional 5" of ground clearance and 40s. I feel like a lot of trails are either 35" tires and lockers required, or it's buggy territory, and there's few in between.

But like I said, I'm all for modifying vehicles. I think portals and the tech are cool. I just wouldn't do it on my own 200.

There have been several trails I’ve done, and several I want to do, where the 5” of clearance will be crucial. Plus it just makes the moderate trails that much easier. I wheel pretty hard, so this will be a huge benefit to me. I have Jeep buddies about 90” wide at the wheels and they’ve done elephant hill. Being that wide at the wheels is different than the entire body being that wide like a Hummer. I already have aftermarket brakes. CV’s do concern me, but running 5.26 gears will help with that, as well as the new spindles. The steering isn’t too much of a concern as the 200 series steering rack and components are the ones everyone upgrades to. With 5.26 gears I think the 200 will move just fine - I’m not looking for a race car! But we will see!

 

[ikarus]

There have been several trails I’ve done, and several I want to do, where the 5” of clearance will be crucial. Plus it just makes the moderate trails that much easier. I wheel pretty hard, so this will be a huge benefit to me. I have Jeep buddies about 90” wide at the wheels and they’ve done elephant hill. Being that wide at the wheels is different than the entire body being that wide like a Hummer. I already have aftermarket brakes. CV’s do concern me, but running 5.26 gears will help with that, as well as the new spindles. The steering isn’t too much of a concern as the 200 series steering rack and components are the ones everyone upgrades to. With 5.26 gears I think the 200 will move just fine - I’m not looking for a race car! But we will see!

Then I say send it, and start a build thread. Would be fun to watch

 

[hoser]

Don't get me wrong I'm all for spending money on mods and customizing vehicles.. but the main cons I'm seeing here are weight and track width.

I answered my own question and according to a Trail4Runner 74Weld vs Werewolf write up, 74Weld is the "lightweight" option, coming in at 56lbs per corner front, 47 lbs per corner rear (for the Tacoma portals). Werewolf meanwhile weighs 106 lbs front / 78 lbs rear. That's all unsprung weight

So take your nicely driving stock 200 that's relatively zippy, and say you're building a monster truck on 40s:
- For each corner add 56 lbs for the portal
- Add at least 10-30 lbs per corner for wheels because I assume you're going beadlocks on a truck like that, right? would be silly not to. I have forged beadlocks on my 80 but those still weigh about 30 lbs each
- And then 40s usually weigh 80-90 lbs per corner (can't remember how much a stock tire weighs, let's say 30 lbs

So you're looking at 150+ lbs of unsprung mass at each corner compared to 40-50 lbs stock. For a total additional unsprung weight of 400 lbs on the vehicle. I can hear the brakes, CVs and steering rack screaming in pain. haha. And the 3UR is gonna feel anemic. Maybe the reduction will help but gears can only go so far before you want a supercharger. Most Jeep guys I know upgrade their axles when adding 40s. I just don't know how much longevity you sacrifice.

And then they're saying 8" addition to the track width?

200 Series stock width = 78"
Add 8" for portals plus 1.5" for the recommended +25 offset and now your 200 is at 87.5" wide.

A HMMWV, since it was referenced earlier, is 84" wide. And a lot of guys already think the 200 is too wide for some technical trails.

For me that kills most of my interest in portals, that would be such a boat and as referenced earlier would make it difficult if not impossible to do some narrow trails like Elephant Hill and would make me nervous on narrow mountain roads with dropoffs. I don't know what that would do to the turning radius either when you're looking at trails with switchbacks like the Morrison Jeep trail.

If you live close to good wide trails where a few inches of ground clearance make the difference between making it up a trail? Sounds good.

If you're like me and you have to drive a few hours on the highway and/or a couple hours on dirt to get to a good trail? I'd rather stick with a more agile, lightweight setup on 34" tires.

I know @MTKID wheels hard with with his setup and he needs portals ASAP! haha but maybe I'm just not wheeling hard enough. I have yet to run into a trail that I would drag a 200 up but I can't because I need an additional 5" of ground clearance and 40s. I feel like a lot of trails are either 35" tires and lockers required, or it's buggy territory, and there's few in between.

But like I said, I'm all for modifying vehicles. I think portals and the tech are cool. I just wouldn't do it on my own 200.

I'm mostly looking at 74Weld's portals. They increase track width by 3.5" per side. Wheels can be 35mm offset and so that is about an inch per side over stock..... 4.5" increase per side (9" total).

Folks running Tundra arms (~3") increased track width.... and zero offset wheels (~5"wider total) makes for 8" increased width total.

Pic of Stellerbuilt's 200 with Tundra Arms/0 offset wheels... so picture just 1/2-1" wider per side for 74Weld. Wide, yes but not ridiculously wide.

On the '24 Tacoma, their portals only add 2.7" width to each side.... so we'll see what they do with the 200.

Also, the 56lb front portal weight also includes the integrated knuckle... and so you would subtract the cast iron knuckle weight from stock.

 

[MTKID]

Don't get me wrong I'm all for spending money on mods and customizing vehicles.. but the main cons I'm seeing here are weight and track width.

I answered my own question and according to a Trail4Runner 74Weld vs Werewolf write up, 74Weld is the "lightweight" option, coming in at 56lbs per corner front, 47 lbs per corner rear (for the Tacoma portals). Werewolf meanwhile weighs 106 lbs front / 78 lbs rear. That's all unsprung weight

So take your nicely driving stock 200 that's relatively zippy, and say you're building a monster truck on 40s:
- For each corner add 56 lbs for the portal
- Add at least 10-30 lbs per corner for wheels because I assume you're going beadlocks on a truck like that, right? would be silly not to. I have forged beadlocks on my 80 but those still weigh about 30 lbs each
- And then 40s usually weigh 80-90 lbs per corner (can't remember how much a stock tire weighs, let's say 30 lbs

So you're looking at 150+ lbs of unsprung mass at each corner compared to 40-50 lbs stock. For a total additional unsprung weight of 400 lbs on the vehicle. I can hear the brakes, CVs and steering rack screaming in pain. haha. And the 3UR is gonna feel anemic. Maybe the reduction will help but gears can only go so far before you want a supercharger. Most Jeep guys I know upgrade their axles when adding 40s. I just don't know how much longevity you sacrifice.

And then they're saying 8" addition to the track width?

200 Series stock width = 78"
Add 8" for portals plus 1.5" for the recommended +25 offset and now your 200 is at 87.5" wide.

A HMMWV, since it was referenced earlier, is 84" wide. And a lot of guys already think the 200 is too wide for some technical trails.

For me that kills most of my interest in portals, that would be such a boat and as referenced earlier would make it difficult if not impossible to do some narrow trails like Elephant Hill and would make me nervous on narrow mountain roads with dropoffs. I don't know what that would do to the turning radius either when you're looking at trails with switchbacks like the Morrison Jeep trail.

If you live close to good wide trails where a few inches of ground clearance make the difference between making it up a trail? Sounds good.

If you're like me and you have to drive a few hours on the highway and/or a couple hours on dirt to get to a good trail? I'd rather stick with a more agile, lightweight setup on 34" tires.

I know @MTKID wheels hard with with his setup and he needs portals ASAP! haha but maybe I'm just not wheeling hard enough. I have yet to run into a trail that I would drag a 200 up but I can't because I need an additional 5" of ground clearance and 40s. I feel like a lot of trails are either 35" tires and lockers required, or it's buggy territory, and there's few in between.

But like I said, I'm all for modifying vehicles. I think portals and the tech are cool. I just wouldn't do it on my own 200.

Thank you for thinking that I wheel hard. Not really. I may have been the first person on 40’s but it wasn’t necessary for my local trails. The heart wants what the heart wants though. And I see 37’s under an LX as the sweet spot personally. Maybe 35’s for the LC if you’re not willing to ditch the KDSS. Speaking of, Lee Sumner wheels hard

You mentioned Morrison Jeep Trail up here near me, and yeah, that would be much sketchier with a wider track! I slipped a tire on it a few years back as the edge of the trail gave way and my heart was beating pretty good as we hooked up my friends winch and very carefully got me safely back on the trail

Downside to the 74Weld is the requirement to change to six lug, and I’d rather run my existing beadlocks instead of buying another expensive set of wheels. This makes their solution significantly more expensive when you add the cost of new wheels, especially their own wheels they’re promoting.

I would love portals for the snow wheeling we do, not the summer mountain trails. For summer trails and my dream of eventually getting onto the Rubicon, I’d rather have a solid front axle, but neither are really in the cards for now.

I personally think Jason will have fun on his Werewolf portals, with minimal significant reduction in reliability, but there are always some unknowns. I love that people are still pushing this platform with Portals.

 

[XFACTR]

I'm mostly looking at 74Weld's portals. They increase track width by 3.5" per side. Wheels can be 35mm offset and so that is about an inch per side over stock..... 4.5" increase per side (9" total).

Folks running Tundra arms (~3") increased track width.... and zero offset wheels (~5"wider total) makes for 8" increased width total.

Pic of Stellerbuilt's 200 with Tundra Arms/0 offset wheels... so picture just 1/2-1" wider per side for 74Weld. Wide, yes but not ridiculously wide.

View attachment 3814876

Also, the 56lb front portal weight also includes the integrated knuckle... and so you would subtract the cast iron knuckle weight from stock.

Werewolf’s are another 3/4” wide I believe.

 

[XFACTR]

Werewolf’s are another 3/4” wide I believe. And another 1” of clearance.

 

[kong24680]

The weight difference is another major factor in my decision to go with 74Weld over Werewolf.

My LX will be running a custom-tuned Stage 2 Harrop supercharger setup (~500whp), 4.88 gears, and 37s. I’m hoping that this combination, along with the 8-speed transmission of the later-gen 200s, will ride well especially since I’m going to keep the stock AHC.

 

[linuxgod]

Also there may be a misunderstanding regarding gearing. He had already regeared to 4.88’s before the portals. I don’t think he is regearing again. He’s already at like 6.5 gears.

Ah it could be he wants to go closer to stock, and I misunderstood.