200 Series Engine Seized at 58,000 miles ?? What to do? (1 Viewer)

[LazyL]

Beware of these guys, they royally screwed my buddy and didn't stand behind their work, or lack thereof, at all.

Like John hinnesy

 

[linuxgod]

Go used. car-part.com shows engines with similar or less miles for $5-6k for my 2013. These are LC/LX... didn't even try to search for Tundra but I'm sure there are plenty out there, possibly cheaper They will warranty the engine, though you obviously risk paying labor twice if something is wrong. Fix it, then either keep it or sell to Carmax/Carvana/Vroom.

 

[NewLCGuy]

This is just unfortunate. It seems I was oversold on reliability, dependability and quality of LC 200. I think there could be some undocumented history to this engine. What could be the odds of this hitting to someone else engine? Or is it just a freak case? Seems need to be on top regular maintenance.

 

[bloc]

This is just unfortunate. It seems I was oversold on reliability, dependability and quality of LC 200.

Did someone tell you no landcruisers would ever have problems?

 

[NewLCGuy]

Did someone tell you no landcruisers would ever have problems?

Of that magnitude, yes.

 

[bloc]

Of that magnitude, yes.

Don’t listen to anything else that person says.

Even in the context of a thread dedicated to a catastrophic engine failure, these are among the very best engineered and most reliable vehicles on the planet. But they are complex mechanical systems and therefore some statistical failure rate is inevitable. This is very, very rare.. but it can happen.

 

[JS Van Slyke]

For Friday fun, here is a photo of the broken spring.

 

[TeCKis300]

Sorry it had to happen to you.

Looking at that, there's no way this could in any way be a maintenance or abuse type issue. Things like that, for a relatively low mileage engine, just don't fail in a factory built motor. I know you're out of warranty and you've already tried reaching out to Toyota, but it may be worthwhile to try again. On the basis that again, this is a manufacturing defect that caused the failure. And Toyota should want to know in case this effects certain manufacturing lots. Particularly as it affects their resolute Land Cruiser nameplate.

I'm not one to usually resort to these things, but with a picture like that, could also put Toyota on blast in their social media accounts?

 

[Moby]

If anyone wants to feel better (or worse) about factory failures, check out this channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/IDoCarsalldaylong/videos

>> From the channel's About page: I own and run an auto salvage operation and part of our model is tearing down bad or core engines and selling the parts. Taking these engines apart is just another day in the office, so I'm happy to bring you along!


Also, I have ~5K miles on my 2020. Is it too early to tear it down and upgrade everything to prep it for big boost as "preventative maintenance"?

 

[bjowett]

Toyota has also safety recalled 4 cylinder Tacomas and the FRS/GT 86 for valve springs. The LS460 and various other Lexus vehicles included under the old recall had inclusions in the material that were causing early failure. This is likely the same issue... is the spring wire material clean enough?

Quick read....

High Performance Spring Failure: A Case Study of a Valve Spring - Institute of Spring Technology

Within all industries, certain components are known for their precise manufacture and exceptional performance. Within the spring industry, valve springs are considered some of the top performers. These springs are typically manufactured from material with the tightest tolerances, highest...

www.ist.org.uk

 

[electro992]

A while back Lexus had a recall for defective valve springs. At the time our LS (also a UR engine) was included but our LX was not. Not sure if this maybe affected 200's at some point?

Good to know- I think I read something about that too. Thank you!

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2010/RCMN-10V309-1264.pdf

Here is the recall I was thinking of. Almost 140,000 vehicles were recalled for the exact failure you had here. The LS460, LS600, and GS460 that were recalled use the same UR-series V8 as the landcruiser. As far as I can tell the landcruiser was never included, but 140k cars seems like plenty of precedent for Toyota to be well aware of this issue.

 

[Moby]

Other than the fact that they might not be owning up to what may or may not be a systemic issue, this is a supplier problem. It is unlikely Toyota is making their own valve springs. My Dad was involved in QA for Boeing and would talk about sending entire batches of things like rivets back.

My joke above about a full teardown at 5k miles aside it shouldn't be a big deal to be preventative here, if one were so inclined. Use compressed air through the spark plug inlet to pressurize the cylinder to keep the valves in place. Spring compressor on, retainers and spring out, new spring in. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

 

[Moby]

It would be interesting to see if the part number for the springs changed over the model years...

 

[04UZJ100]

Toyota has also safety recalled 4 cylinder Tacomas and the FRS/GT 86 for valve springs. The LS460 and various other Lexus vehicles included under the old recall had inclusions in the material that were causing early failure. This is likely the same issue... is the spring wire material clean enough?

Quick read....

High Performance Spring Failure: A Case Study of a Valve Spring - Institute of Spring Technology

Within all industries, certain components are known for their precise manufacture and exceptional performance. Within the spring industry, valve springs are considered some of the top performers. These springs are typically manufactured from material with the tightest tolerances, highest...

www.ist.org.uk

Would a QC X-ray have not seen the inclusion?

 

[bjowett]

Would a QC X-ray have not seen the inclusion?

Well, on the old Lexus recall, which was showing failures due to inclusions, they either missed it, or did not/only check so many per batch... right? So it's relevant for these, too.

 

[Toyoland66]

The spring is a $3 part, there is no way all are x-rayed or QC’d at all, it would be on a 1/x sampled basis at best.

 

[bronc076]

For Friday fun, here is a photo of the broken spring.

View attachment 2640479

Have you spoken to anyone above the service manager? I think some calm conversations with people higher up in the chain of command could be fruitful. There is nothing a user can do to an unmodified land cruiser that would cause that. And if you had a Kia or Hyundai this would be covered under warranty.

 

[hickuptruck]

Would a QC X-ray have not seen the inclusion?

Nah, the Toyota QC x-ray you hear about is only on the bare block after it gets cast.

I think when people hear of this about their Lexus or Land Cruiser engine getting Xrayed at the factory, they get super wow-ed. But frankly, its a pretty common process in the metal casting world. There's also limits using radiography as a non destuctive testing method, there limits on how far the photon penetrates the casting, and the flaw resolution limit on a QC Xray is 0.05mm, which isn't that small, but still better than magnets and dye methods.

Springs would definitely be coming from a tier 1 supplier for Toyota and not Toyota themselves, block however is. I really wonder if its a US supplier, since the 3UR-fe is cast in TN and then assembled over in Bama. I'd put $5 on the table its an American supplier but that information is classified confidential deep within Toyota.

 

[CharlieS]

@hickuptruck I could be mistaken, but I think the Land Cruiser engines are sourced in Japan, unlike the Tundras built in the US.

 

[JS Van Slyke]

Have you spoken to anyone above the service manager? I think some calm conversations with people higher up in the chain of command could be fruitful. There is nothing a user can do to an unmodified land cruiser that would cause that. And if you had a Kia or Hyundai this would be covered under warranty.

I’ll try to speak to someone higher up again..... but when I asked they wouldn’t transfer or give me anyone’s info. I found a way to dispute a claim , so am going to try that too with Corporate. Thanks!