200 Series Engine Seized at 58,000 miles ?? What to do? (1 Viewer)

[gaijin]

OP is MIA - has answered no questions and hasn't posted at all since starting this thread.

Hey, @JS Van Slyke , are you still with us?

If so, are you the original owner of your 200 series with the blown engine?

 

[bloc]

Tangent, and not intended to derail the thread, but I assume folks have fit 4BTs into these guys?

Yeah, that’s a tangent.

Why do people keep asking about this engine going into all manner of vehicle? The 1VD is arguably underpowered for 200-series use on American roads, and the most potent version makes 268hp. A 4bt makes 105. 27% of stock 3UR output.

And it’ll rattle the whole vehicle so much bolts will loosen up by themselves.

There are a ton more reasons this isn’t done.. I’m genuinely curious why it keeps coming up...

 

[GOLIGHTLY]

Yeah, that’s a tangent.

Why do people keep asking about this engine going into all manner of vehicle? The 1VD is arguably underpowered for 200-series use on American roads, and the most potent version makes 268hp. A 4bt makes 105. 27% of stock 3UR output.

And it’ll rattle the whole vehicle so much bolts will loosen up by themselves.

There are a ton more reasons this isn’t done.. I’m genuinely curious why it keeps coming up...

Because I have prior conversion experience with the platform and enjoyed it. Bolts even stayed in place.

Easy to work on, been dropped into a lot of offroad platforms, better mileage with a tune... I'll bow out I suppose. Just thought it was worth asking.

 

[afgman786]

Because I have prior conversion experience with the platform and enjoyed it. Bolts even stayed in place.

Easy to work on, been dropped into a lot of offroad platforms, better mileage with a tune... I'll bow out I suppose. Just thought it was worth asking.

I don't know if that will ever work with a 200, unless you replace almost everything else. The transfer case, trans, ecu, and whatever other wizardry there is in the wiring would need to get the signals/responses it wants for everything to work as it should. Older cars don't have that so it's easier to do a swap, but I feel like the 200s would require everything else to be changed.

 

[GOLIGHTLY]

I don't know if that will ever work with a 200, unless you replace almost everything else. The transfer case, trans, ecu, and whatever other wizardry there is in the wiring would need to get the signals/responses it wants for everything to work as it should. Older cars don't have that so it's easier to do a swap, but I feel like the 200s would require everything else to be changed.

Gotcha, that answers the question I ought to have been asking.

 

[Moby]

Back on the original topic, I reread the original post. A "spring" isn't "inside". At least I hope there is nothing in my cylinders but rods, pistons and rings. I sounds like you broke a valve spring (top of the head, between the head and top of valve under the cam) and dropped a valve, which the piston smacked on its way up. Maybe it isn't really seized but has a bent valve stuck half open preventing full revolution of the crank. Or the valve dropped completely and is wedged between cylinder and piston.

Or broke a ring. But its harder to see that seizing the engine.

I really want to see this torn down.

I'm not sure why the concern about rebuilding a seized engine. If the block isn't cracked (unlikely), the cylinder walls have enough meat to be bored to take out any gouges from the broken stuff knocking around in the cylinders, the caps can be align honed, and the heads are OK have at it. Worst case source a used short block, crank, rods or heads depending on what can't be rebuilt. And if you have ever considered a supercharger, lower compression a bit and consider upgraded rod bolts and forged pistons.

The real trick is finding the right engine builder.

 

[CharlieS]

I think I still have a piston in my garage from a BMW motorcycle that I bought that had a crashed valve. It wasn't pretty - piston destroyed (valve embedded in the deck), cylinder walls beat all to hell. At least there I could pop one jug out and replace it. In this case you're dealing with an entire bank to address a single dropped valve, right?

Might be rebuildable, would have to tear it down to see.

For the cost of a Tundra 5.7, and relative ease of dropping it in, I'd probably just go with a used engine over a rebuild, personally.

 

[afgman786]

Seems like the perfect time for this....

Home - PPM Racing

Get top-quality crankshafts, connecting rods, and forged pistons at PPM Racing. Our cutting-edge technology, including CNC machining and computer-aided solid modelling, ensures maximum strength and weight savings. Choose from 2618 or 4032 grade aluminium alloy, with hand de-burred pistons and...

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[mcgaskins]

Seems like the perfect time for this....

Home - PPM Racing

Get top-quality crankshafts, connecting rods, and forged pistons at PPM Racing. Our cutting-edge technology, including CNC machining and computer-aided solid modelling, ensures maximum strength and weight savings. Choose from 2618 or 4032 grade aluminium alloy, with hand de-burred pistons and...

www.pureperformancemotorsport.com

I'm curious what the power gains are like with this kit. Seems cool but very expensive especially when adding labor and tuning.

 

[JS Van Slyke]

I'm wondering what happened here. A valve spring broke and the valve dropped into the cylinder?

from what they told me.... the cylinder spring on #5 broke off and got into the combustion chamber, which caused the damage.

I was in the car with my 2 kids and it lurched a little coming to a stop light (no prior symptoms, no prior warning signs, everything running perfect up until that moment) , then lights on dash started flashing, check engine went on and I immediately pulled over. Thank god I wasn't on the HWY and going slow because the whole vehicle just shut down.

 

[JS Van Slyke]

Many reports of Diesel Toys doing shifty operations.

Also, second dibs if you sell it.

Thanks! Stay in touch, please. I may consider selling it .... depending on if Corporate steps up to the plate to help cover the majority of the costs.

 

[afgman786]

I'm curious what the power gains are like with this kit. Seems cool but very expensive especially when adding labor and tuning.

Whether they decide to do a rebuild or swap there's already going to be labor associated with that...
I'm curious too, along with how much it kills reliability

 

[JS Van Slyke]

Some years back I bought a certified used MR2 Spyder. The transaxle gave up only a month or two after the warranty expired. Toyota corporate paid for all parts (to include stuff like new motors mounts, new clutch, etc. They even upgraded the transaxle to include limited slip when original box was not. I had to pay the dealer labor bill. It helped that I was at the selling dealer and their service manager followed up my contact with his own. Long story, but point is ask the service manager if he will throw in his two cents to corporate - they all know a 5.7 Toyota motor shouldn't go at that mileage. Oh, and BTW, they told me they would have picked up labor too if I had been using the dealer for maintenance service (I like to change my own oil, etc.).

Thank you! This is helpful to know. The service team has been really helpful going to bat for me- so they are vouching that the engine was clean and serviced properly, etc. My 1994 LC was actually purchased there and all our services at this same Dealership for over 20 years. They had even just done the oil change on my 2014.

 

[JS Van Slyke]

Retroactive Toyota Platinum VSA?

FYI I think the used low mileage motor that @indycole ended up with was something like $15k installed by the dealer. Not new, but I think a ~even swap (in terms of wear/life) and about half the cost of a new motor (plus labor). Obviously $15k is still a huge number.

$85k vehicles shouldn't have a motor implode after 58k miles. Valve springs don't typically break. I do wonder a bit if the PO abused the engine, pushing it up against the redline a bunch or something? I would definitely push Toyota corporate for this, especially if you have the maintenance history available through Carfax and/or the Toyota Owner's site. It's worth arguing as well that while the amount of time in the 5/60 powertrain is >5 years, the mileage isn't.

I'd personally settle for a low mileage used motor from a wrecked Tundra/Sequoia out of it if Toyota will swap it and warranty the result.

Thank you! I agree. No engine (let alone Toyota LC should seize up under 100k miles, in my opinion). I do have all service records, including good CarFax from PO and it's a super clean vehicle.... so honestly don't think it was ever abused. Just a crazy freak thing (per my husband!)

I will bring up the Tundra/Sequoia engines, not sure why they aren't checking that route as an option. Thank you!! Although used engines do make me nervous....

 

[JS Van Slyke]

Similar situation, but different...

I bought a commuter brand new - 2013.5 VW GLI. About a year outside of warranty and about 5k miles outside, my timing chain tensioner (oil pressure driven) failed causing the cams to jump and effectively grenade the motor by valves dropping into the cylinders. Started it up to go to work with heavy, what I thought, misfires, and shut it down.

Now VW was a royal pain to deal with, but they kept throwing the "we met our obligation" because it met the warranty expectation - it just failed immediately thereafter

After proving it was rigorously maintained with an accelerated plan, I eventually agreed to pay about 25% of the parts cost for a new one and they covered the remaining 75% and all labor. I HAVE to imagine that Toyota would step up for what is perceived as the most reliable brand. Could make for some bad PR...

Thank you for sharing! This gives me hope that Toyota steps up and does what is right too!!

 

[JS Van Slyke]

I would do a documented yard motor , going new Toyota if you look up a long block was 28k .... whats the price on the cheapest 2wd stripped tundra with a 5.7 ... mid 30’s

Truly sorry to hear about this. I’m sure it’s very disruptive to you and your family. The Cruiser engine should never fail unless it was horribly abused (not saying you did).

I’d go new and wouldn’t consider a used engine. To have it rebuilt is tricky cuz there could be damage elsewhere due to the seizure.

Sounds crazy but if I had the funds I’d consider going the experiment route and dropping in a diesel.

Thank you! I miss my 80 Series- never failed! I honestly don't think it was abused and just a super freak occurrence ... and I guess my bad luck.

 

[JS Van Slyke]

^^This

It sounds like you are already down this path with the request to Coporate but if you are the original owner and you have service records Toyota might work with you on this. When an emissions component went out on my wife's RX450h a few years ago, which was a 2010 and <60k miles, Lexus just up and replaced it no charge when I complained that there is no way it should have failed at that mileage regardless of time. I can't remember if it was the evap canister or something else, been a few years, but it was expensive enough that I would have sold the car rather than replace it.

They had to clear it through Lexus US, they couldn't make the call to replace it free of charge locally, but they got an answer in just a day. Of course Lexus might have known that there was a systemic problem or something and thus had a default answer of just replace it, but still it was very good of them. They certainly weren't under any obligation to replace it.

I'm not saying that Toyota might give you a new engine and free labor, but they might work with you on price if you are the original owner and have service records. This is one reason that I use the dealer for scheduled maintenance through warranty period and then do my own oil changes in between (I don't care what any manufacturer says about 10k service changes - 5k miles or twice/year for me).

Let us know how it goes. If they don't help out perfect excuse build a stroker or Darton sleeves, upgraded rods and pistons and the big Harrop blower.

Thank you! I am going to keep after Corporate and hope they make it right.
I am the 2nd owner but have all the service records for every 5k miles (all services, but maybe 1-2 at Toyota dealerships) If they don't help out, I think I will have to sell.

 

[JS Van Slyke]

A while back Lexus had a recall for defective valve springs. At the time our LS (also a UR engine) was included but our LX was not. Not sure if this maybe affected 200's at some point?

Good to know- I think I read something about that too. Thank you!

 

[JS Van Slyke]

OP is MIA - has answered no questions and hasn't posted at all since starting this thread.

Hey, @JS Van Slyke , are you still with us?

If so, are you the original owner of your 200 series with the blown engine?

Hi, I am the 2nd Owner of the vehicle. I have all the service records from Original owner and clean carfax

 

[JS Van Slyke]

Thank you everyone for your ideas, experiences and advice! I really appreciate it.

I am still crossing my fingers Corporate will step up to the bat and help make this right, cover the costs. Trying to stay positive on it all (while out of a car indefinitely for now!).
I hope they cover a new engine (which is what the dealership is proposing at $17,500) but will look at the Tundra/Sequoia option next.

Wish me luck while they review my case!

If they don't cover 75% + of the costs, I will probably have to sell it. Stay in touch if anyone is in the market.