1FZ trans swaps 6R80 10R80 and more (2 Viewers)

[OutlawMike]

Transmission and Transfer Case Vent Routing

Stock, the transfer case and transmission vents hook into a bracket that is on the dipstick tube. They do not enter the dipstick, just vent to atmosphere behind the little bracket shown below. The only opening is on the bottom of the bracket, so, mostly keeps dust and water from getting into the vents. There is no dipstick on the 8HP75, you fill it according to a fill plug on the side of the transmission, much like a differential.

I replaced the vent lines on the transfer case, as they were old, dried out, and cracked. I then ran a vent up the drivers side of the transmission and used the M8 studs on my transfer case shifter plate to hold two of the stock vent clips. I reused one and bought a second. Part numbers for these can be one of two parts: 90949-01968 or 90949-01684. One is exactly like the stock part, longer, and the other is a bit shorter. Either would have worked in my install.

For the transmission I found a Dorman part at Oreilly that is a right angle rubber part that fit the vent pretty well. I adapted this with a male/male barb fitting to the stock size vent line and ran that together with the transfer case vent using the stock style clips up into the engine bay where I used two Toyota differential vents to vent the two independently. The Toyota differential vents that I used are P/N 90930-03097, two per. The clips that hold the vent lines together are P/N 90464-00535.

Dorman right angle rubber part is Dorman P/N 47038. I used the 7/32 vacuum tubing shown below. Found both at O'Reilly.
The incorrect barbed fitting is shown in the picture below, that is a reducer and the wrong part. Correct part shown above.

 

[OutlawMike]

Transmission and Transfer Case Vent Routing (Continued):

Combining all of the above, I ended up with the below. Dorman elbow on the transmission vent. Clamps on each interface. Plastic clips combining the two vent lines.

Vent Lines routing above the starter:

Vents on firewall:

 

[OutlawMike]

Transmission Cooler Thermostat and Line Routing

A big difference on the modern transmissions is that they have far less parasitic losses in the transmission. That means they can take a while to warm up and that affects shift performance. The transmission I purchased came with a heat exchanger on the side of it that has a thermostat in it, engine coolant routing through it, and cooler lines going out and back from a front mounted transmission cooler. When the transmission is cold, the fluid only goes through the heat exchanger to get warmed up by the engine coolant, which warms up far faster than the transmission. When the fluid reaches operating temperature, the thermostat modulates flow of fluid through the cooler to keep the fluid in a desired range.

This side mount heat exchanger does not fit in the J80 transmission tunnel. I looked at remote mounting it, but it does not have any type of fittings for the inlet/outlet from/to the transmission. They use slip fit O-ring jumper tubes between the two.

My solution is to utilize the stock transmission heat exchanger in the radiator along with the stock transmission cooler and an aftermarket thermostat which is between the transmission heat exchanger and the cooler. Much as the stock Dodge heat exchanger does, the thermostat will not route fluid through the cooler until the fluid comes up to temp. The heat exchanger in the radiator will warm up the fluid at startup, and, if under heavy load on hot days, will cool the fluid if it is above engine coolant temp at the bottom of the radiator.

The thermostat I am using is from Improved Racing. It is their high flow version and has an activation temp of 160 F (71 C), a stabilization temp of 165 F (74 C) and a full flow temp of 181 F (83 C). I had to order two sets of fittings from Improved Racing. One set of 3/8" barb and one set of 8-AN male. I set the thermostat up with some 180 degree 8-AN female on one side and screwed 8-AN male to 3/8" barb adapters into those, so that all of the fittings pointed to the same side. I then mounted the thermostat to the radiator cross member, right in front of the engine.

Improved Racing High Flow Thermostat

8-AN 180 degree female to female

8-AN male to 3/8" barb Adapter

In the picture below, the fluid comes out from the transmission on line #1. This is the stock hardline that is already installed in the J80. It enters the heat exchanger in the bottom of the transmission. It then exits the transmission heat exchanger on line #2 and enters the thermostat on the "From Source" input by going through the 180 degree bend. If the thermostat is closed, then it bypasses to line #5, going out the adjacent 180 degree bend to enter the bottom, stock hard line on the J80. If the thermostat is open, then the fluid passes through the thermostat and enters line #3, which is the input line to the stock transmission cooler. It returns from the cooler on line #4 and flows through the thermostat and into line #5, returning to the transmission.

On the transmission side, I used an oil cooler adapter made by HPR and sold by TurboLamik USA to adapt the stock output / input to 8-AN male fittings. This adapter has swivels on the fittings, so you can rotate it to the preferred location. I jumped these up to above the starter using 8-AN female/female lines that I custom made (Evil Energy kit from Amazon) and then ran them into a set of 8-AN male to 3/8" barb adapters (same adapters used on the thermostat). I cut the stock soft lines down a bit and reused them with the adapters.

Note: The Output on the transmission and oil cooler adapter is on the bottom, the Input on the top. The two stock hardlines and routing I used require the opposite. I routed the stock soft lines above the starter so that they did the switch, making things match.

For the 8-AN lines, I used the 45 degree fittings on the oil adapter side and the straight fittings to attach to the adapters on the stock soft lines above the starter.

In hindsight, might have been easier to put barb adapters on the HPR oil cooler adapter side, but I had a hard time finding female 8-AN to 3/8" barb adapters on short notice. Then I could have just run barb fittings from there.

HPR Oil Cooler Adapter for Dodge Trucks

8-AN Male to 3/8" Barb Adapters

Evil Energy 8-AN Kit 10ft

 

[OutlawMike]

Transmission Cooler Thermostat and Line Routing (Continued):

Shown below is the area above the starter where the stock cooler soft lines would normally hook into the stock crossover hard lines (the stock transmission has input and output for the cooler on the passenger side and has hard lines that loop over the top, those are no longer used).

I took the stock soft lines and cut them down a bit so I could have the 8-AN fittings in an area where I could tighten them easily. You can see that I cross the In and Out from top to bottom with the soft lines.

If you are going to reuse the stock soft lines, hard lines, and cooler, then you need to clean all of the old school ATF out of them. The new 8HP75 uses designer fluid that costs around $25 a qt. It is not compatible with the old school Dexron ATF. Picture below of all of the parts you need to clean.

The soft and hard lines are pretty easy to clean. I used Simple Green in my garage sinks to soak and rinse them out. I flowed hot water through them, then blew them out with compressed air. I would have bought new lines, but almost all of them are now obsolete and mine were in good shape.

The cooler ended up being easier to clean than I thought. It holds just shy of one can of brake cleaner. I sprayed it in until it was full, then let it sit overnight. I poured it out and it was pink in color. I filled it up again and let it sit overnight, and when I poured it out it barely had a tinge of pink to it. I filled it up a third time and it came out clear. I then blew it out with compressed air.

 

[OutlawMike]

Transfer Case Wire Harness

The transfer case has 5x electrical connectors on it and shares part of the transmission harness. This section of harness comes down on the drivers side, above the starter. I pulled two of the transmission harness sections back up into the engine bay to tie the off up high. One was for the Park/Neutral/gear selection switch and the other was for the solenoids and speed sensor on the driver's side. The coolant temp sensor plug is on the passenger side and tied into the rear O2 sensor harness. I rerouted that line up higher and tied that plug up and filled it with dielectric grease, as it will not be used any longer.

The harness on the driver's side has a bracket that picks up a bolt on the bell housing. I was able to do the same with the 8HP75, as shown below. You can see one of the transmission harness runs tied back with a white zip tie and ran back up to the engine bay.

In stock form, the section of harness that runs to the transfer case crosses over the top of the transmission (as shown above) and travels down the passenger side to the transfer case. I did the same, and picked up a couple of the bosses in the side of the Dodge 8HP75 with some clamps to hold the harness in place. There are a lot of threaded bosses on the Dodge version of the 8HP75. Even after cutting some of them off for clearance, there are a lot to choose from.

And, at the end of the day, I did not need to extend any of the wires or plugs. There was enough slack in the harness to handle the transfer case moving back 3.2".

 

[tmxmotorsports]

No offense but this is a geeked out tech thread that I think most of us are just sitting back and watching well at least I know I am.
Awesome thread and tech.

 

[OutlawMike]

No offense but this is a geeked out tech thread that I think most of us are just sitting back and watching well at least I know I am.
Awesome thread and tech.

None taken. Just hope that Mr. Murphy is done visiting my garage....

 

[Starlord]

Tagged

 

[tmxmotorsports]

None taken. Just hope that Mr. Murphy is done visiting my garage....

I call it a snowball effect.

 

[fjbj40]

I personally think it’s an awesome thread and I am watching it with great interest!

Looking forward to final costs and performance improvements in useable torque and improved mpg. I’m not expecting 25mpg but 18-22 is a dream if rpm’s can drop 1000 at cruise.

Dream, I know

 

[OutlawMike]

I personally think it’s an awesome thread and I am watching it with great interest!

Looking forward to final costs and performance improvements in useable torque and improved mpg. I’m not expecting 25mpg but 18-22 is a dream if rpm’s can drop 1000 at cruise.

Dream, I know

Well, math has killed many dreams... The second overdrive gear is 11% lower, so, not going to drop 1000 RPM, unless cruise at 9090 RPM....

I did do a fuel mileage test on the rig before the swap. 13.3 MPG with the cruise control set at 65. Confirmed speed with GPS/phone. This is with 37" tires and 4.88 gears. RPM is about 2350 at 65 mph. An 11% drop would get that down to 2090 RPM. That should help with mileage on flat ground. Also, less parasitic loss will improve all around fuel economy. I will run the identical mileage test after the it is up and running.

18 MPG? Maybe downhill with a good tail wind. Still a big heavy rig with the aerodynamics of a brick, a distributor, and no variable valve timing.

 

[880 development]

Wow, your swap is looking great, Mike! I´m getting a little bit delayed on mine (Europe is quite poor when it comes to reasonably priced motorsport wiring supplies...), but I´ll post pics when everything is done.

I´ve got a couple of questions about the original automatic wiring harness:

How are you going to bypass the oem PRND sensor fitted to the A442F? This sensor tells the transmission module whether the transmission is in Park or Neutral, and if this is not the case, it is not possible to crank the engine. I planned on building a simple module that converts the 1-5v PRND signal from the Turbolamik TCU into differente continuity brigdes at the oem wiring harness using 5 mosfet modules. Now I´m thinking this may be a bit overcomplicated...

Is the transfer case wiring harness long enough with a 70mm longer set-up?

 

[OutlawMike]

Wow, your swap is looking great, Mike! I´m getting a little bit delayed on mine (Europe is quite poor when it comes to reasonably priced motorsport wiring supplies...), but I´ll post pics when everything is done.

I´ve got a couple of questions about the original automatic wiring harness:

How are you going to bypass the oem PRND sensor fitted to the A442F? This sensor tells the transmission module whether the transmission is in Park or Neutral, and if this is not the case, it is not possible to crank the engine. I planned on building a simple module that converts the 1-5v PRND signal from the Turbolamik TCU into differente continuity brigdes at the oem wiring harness using 5 mosfet modules. Now I´m thinking this may be a bit overcomplicated...

Is the transfer case wiring harness long enough with a 70mm longer set-up?

Good timing on the question. Just did that last night. No need for digital module, easy to do with a starter relay and the existing PRND sensor harness connector and a mating plug for the PRND harness connector.

NOTE: Decided to go another path with the starter relay. On page 10 I have posted on the updated design for this relay circuit. The original large relay was very loud and engaged anytime the shifter was in park or neutral. Please see page 10 for the new design.

 

[cruisermatt]

I was wanting to build plug and play harness for GM conversions and was not able to source that connector unfortunately.

Also, I am loving this thread, keep it up. Can't wait to 8HP swap my turbo-LS FJ62 one day.

 

[OutlawMike]

Received the plate for the back of the transfer case adapter. This plate has 11.5 degrees of rotation for the transfer case. Previously I was settling on 12.5 degrees of rotation, but after fitting things a final time, decided to go with 11.5 degrees of rotation. In the picture below, the original plate is on the left, the new is on the right. You can see that I machined 2 mm of material around the seal on the original plate. The new plate has that mod in it to start with.

I pressed the bearing and shaft out, installed them in the new plate, and assembled it to the transfer case adapter assembly. Put everything in the LC and the clearance I get at the drain plug is shown below:

So, what is the downside of rotating the T-case? Well, the center diff lock solenoid gets close to the bottom of the tub. There is about 3/4" of clearance in the picture below.

You can see, above, in front of the center diff lock solenoid that there is more clearance just in front of it and with the transfer case pushed back 3.2", it ends up in this low clearance area. For now I am going to space the belly pan down by 1" and then decide how to move it back up. I could modify the mounting area on the belly pad (already modified once for the 3.2" shift) and lower that area by 1". I could also talk to Daniel about moving the transmission mount up by 1". Not sure if we have that much room to do so, but maybe.

In the picture below, you can see the nice billet trans pan I bought from DomiWorks. A very nice piece of machining work, and it allows replacement of the filter without tossing the entire pan.

Also, I labeled the temporary 1" spacers I put between the frame and the belly pan. Just 1" square aluminum tubing with holes drilled into them and longer bolts. The center section of the transfer case adapter may have enough room to move the transmission mount up by 1". There is enough room everywhere else for the belly pan to move up. Also, you can see the mod I did to extend the mounting platform for the transmission mount. I could shorten that platform by 1" and the studs will not stick out the bottom.

One last note. I measured the front driveline and it measures 35 1/2". The rear measured at 35". Almost the same length with a move rearward of 3.2". I am going to get the front driveshaft lengthened this week, now that it clears.

Next tasks are to pull the transfer case back out and seal up the adapter. I want to prevent water and dust from entering the area where the bearing is. Then put it and the transfer case back in, fill the transfer case with lube, reinstall the belly pan with solid 1" aluminum spacers, and then fill the transmission.

I am almost done with the wiring and will do a post on that. Getting very close.

Mike

 

[OutlawMike]

Finished the install today. Started the engine, filled the transmission. It shifts into reverse, neutral, drive, just fine. Waiting to talk with TurboLamik USA tomorrow to see if I need to have them do a remote calibration for the Analog inputs (RPM, TPS, Manifold Pressure). If it is good, will drive it tomorrow to the exhaust shop to have the muffler reinstalled. The T-Case ran into the rear O2 sensor, so, running without that for now.

I will post up a bunch of info on the wiring, filling the transmission, and also a retrospective on what went well and what I would do differently if I did this a second time.

Mike

 

[OutlawMike]

Quick update. I have an appointment with TurboLamik in Poland for Monday. TurboLamik USA is not up to speed on the Analog Input calibrations. Most of these installs are happening in cars with CAN bus and there is no need for the Analog calibrations. So, earliest appointment I could get is Monday morning, 6 AM my time, 3 PM their time in Poland. The LC is all buttoned up, complete, and sitting in the garage. I do not want to drive it until I get all of the setup done correctly.

 

[60 toy ota]

man I can only imagine your nerves right now. This is so cool to see come together. Not only mad props for performing the conversion, but taking the effort to document in true pioneer fashion for others to follow. looking forward to the next update!

 

[OutlawMike]

man I can only imagine your nerves right now. This is so cool to see come together. Not only mad props for performing the conversion, but taking the effort to document in true pioneer fashion for others to follow. looking forward to the next update!

Thanks, I appreciate that. Wish I could drive it right now, but I want to make sure I do this correctly. Still some little stuff to wrap up before Monday. I need to paint both of the drivelines and also I am changing the starter relay out. The one I put in is way to loud, annoys the heck out of me. So, going for a different relay, Bosch high current, that is far quieter.

 

[OutlawMike]

Had a call with a TurboLamik Tech this morning to do the initial setup. It was an interesting experience.

First of all, the wrong software was installed on the TurboLamik. I had software for the 8HP70, not the 8HP75. Some miscommunication happened when I purchased the TurboLamik. If you go this route, make extra sure you are specific about which transmission you are swapping in and also double check. I had written it in an email, not sure what happened. No harm done, as I had not driven it. The tech updated the TCU and started the set up.

They remote login to your laptop and use TunerPro software to set up the transmission. I had the J80 up on jack stands so it could be run through the gears with the wheels turning. At one point he wanted me to have it at 2k RPM and run through all of the gears. Idle is one thing, but 2k RPM, in gear, wheels rotating?

I almost did not do it, asked him about being on jack stands. He said that he has done this with customers on jack stands many times without any problems. I asked him about 37" tires, and he said yes, so, took the risk, and it turned out just fine, But, 2k RPM in 8th gear is like 60 MPH equivalent. If it had fallen off, I would have plowed into the house.

So, in hindsight, maybe that was more risk than I should have taken and the rig would need to be on a lift or a dyno to do that. Or, at least not facing the back wall of the garage. Completion bias probably came into play. I want this finished and took a risk that I would not normally take.

Something to think about for others if you get to this point. If I had known about this in advance, I may have arranged to get it on a lift or a dyno.

Also, the neighbors commented on the racing engine at 6:30 in the morning. I did feed back to the tech that the US dealer for TurboLamik needs to get up to speed on these setups, as the time difference is a bit of a pain.


But, no accidents, no issues. Got the initial shift map set and I took it for a test drive. I only went a short distance, stopped to look for leaks, and guess what I found? Leaks on the cooler lines. The stock clamps may not be up to the task for the line pressure that the 8HP is running. So, back to the garage to let it cool down and I am going to replace them with high pressure fuel line clamps.

Then I need to get the fluid level set. There is a very detailed procedure from ZF for fluid level setting that includes a flow chart. Link below to that procedure.

Top level summary is:

With the engine off, fill the pan until it comes out the fill hole (took 4 liters on mine, with the DomiWorks pan).
Start the engine and continue to fill until the fluid comes out the fill hole again (9.2 liters for mine, with my cooler setup).
Drive the car until the "valve opens T < 75C" then follow the flow chart.

ZF8HP Transmission Fluid Fill Procedure

Once I get the fluid level finalized, I need to put it into adaptation mode where it will adapt the shifts. This is done driving in manual shift mode and is recommended that you shift at 2k RPM. There are four upshifts that are used to adapt the shift parameters for clutches A, C, D, and E. the B clutch is adapted on the 6-5 downshift. All sounds technical, but all you need to do is activate adaptation mode in the software and then drive it in manual shift mode, shifting up at 2k RPM for each shift. it shows a little "A" on the screen when adaptation parameters are met and you are good to shift. Just shift at 2k once the A shows up on the screen. They want this done 20 times, through the gears shifts that set on upshifts.

Adaptation in TurboLamik Manual

I will post up a video of it driving once I get the leaks fixed, fluid level set, and the adaptations done.

Nice to actually drive it this morning. First gear is seriously low at 4.7:1. The 1:2 shift happens really fast, as the RPM's just ramp. Shifting is a bit unrefined at this point and will see how the adaptations smooth that out.

Thanks,

Mike