1FZ trans swaps 6R80 10R80 and more (4 Viewers)

[hazard]

Hi All
On my other threads conversation is getting away from topic so I am starting a new thread.
I have had an adapter built to use a Ford 6R80 behind my 1FZ using stock transfer case.
I will post about that here, and also info on different transmission controllers available for the swap.
Please post here any swaps or info you have on AUTOMATIC transmission swaps behind a 1FZ.

More to come

 

[hazard]

I see our 80's as hugely benefitting from modern transmissions in both drivability, on and off road, and fuel mileage.

 

[hazard]

Here is a repeat from my other post.
There is now a controller for the 10 speed. Too late for my build this time but will do next. Controller is
Gearbox Control Unit | HTG tuning - https://htg-tuning.com/gcu/
Here is a list of supported transmissions.

HTG full support list | HTG tuning - https://htg-tuning.com/wiki/support/htg-full-support-list/

I think I will still wait and see if US Shift comes out with one as they seem simpler.

 

[hazard]

Here are the gear ratios of the transmissions I want. Imagine the improved drivability on and off road!

Stock. 4 speeds. 1st = 2.804/1, 4th (OD) = 0.753/1, Reverse 2.393/1

6R80. 6 speeds. 1st = 4.17/1, 6th = 0.69/1, reverse = 3.4/1

10R80. 10 speeds. 1st = 4.69/1, 10th = 0.63/1, reverse = 4.86/1

I think these are right, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[SmokingRocks]

 

[hazard]

I don’t get it?
guess I’m old

 

[hazard]

Here is a link to the transmission control unit (TCU) to control my 6R80.
if you look at their website also talks about the controller they are going to come out with for the 10R80.
Not cheap but only way to go. About the same price as HTG Tuning TCU but I like US Shift features.

Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control with Remote Display

The Quick 6 controller allows the 6R80 Clutch-to-Clutch transmission to be implemented in a wide variety of vehicles, including ones not originally equipped with electronic control. It also allows customization of the transmission's behavior with an intuitive, user-friendly UI. The compact...

www.usshift.com

 

[sjpitts]

I don’t get it?
guess I’m old

He is just saying that he subscribed to your thread--- presumably because he is interested and wants to see what else you have to say.

 

[hazard]

OK. Duh!

 

[SmokingRocks]

how does the T case interface with the back end of the 6R80? is it the factory case? I'm assuming you need custom-length driveshafts as well?

 

[hazard]

I had to have a custom transfer case input shaft made that the trans output slips into.
the overall length is within 1” of stock so driveshafts will be fine. Just some small mods on trans x member

 

[SmokingRocks]

Can you share more details on the adapter you had made for the Tcase?

Is this up and running in your rig? If so can you give us a real world impression of how it is compared to stock?

 

[RiverCityDave]

This is fascinating. Im following along...

 

[hazard]

Sorry folks but this won't be up and running for quite some time. I am doing a ground up complete resto mod of my 80 and this is only part of the story.
I am following up with some pics of the adapters tho.

 

[hazard]

All the pieces required, not including nuts, bolts, gaskets etc.
1 torque converter to flex plate adapter.
1 engine to trans adapter
1 trans to transfer case adapter
1 transfer case input shaft made to fit 6R80 output

 

[hazard]

Transfer input shaft is the same except for the inner splines

 

[hazard]

Engine to trans, 2 pieces

 

[hazard]

Trans to transfer and input shaft

 

[hazard]

Sorry for poor images. Here's the whole package. Will post again when I get in frame. Feel free to comment.

 

[OutlawMike]

Hazard, thanks for starting this thread and including "and more". I am in the process of swapping a ZF 8HP75 into my J80. I am using the TurboLamik TCU, which is the preferred TCU in the 8HP swap scene.

TurboLamik

TurboLamik TCU. TCU 2.0 by TurboLamik is an advanced transmission controller for the extremely popular and durable ZF 8HP transmissions. It allows you to control the ZF transmission in 8 modes varying from basic automatic to race sequential style.

www.turbolamik.us

I am going to dump a bunch of info here for others who may be looking into this, as over the last year I have gathered a lot of information about swapping in a modern transmission into a J80. I cleared this with Hazard ahead of time.

I went with the 8HP transmission because of the proven TurboLamik TCU and it is also shorter than the 10 speeds (when including the output shaft), which helps with the fuel tank issue. Even though it is shorter, with the 8HP75, the adapters, and the intermediate shaft (spline adapter), the overall length is 2.7" longer. Drivelines will need to be lengthened in the front, shortened in the rear. And, there is a conflict between the gas tank and the Speedo output on the transfer case that I am figuring out.

A343F Overall Length, Bell Housing to Output Shaft Tip: 30" (761.5mm)
Dodge 8HP75 Overall Length Bell Housing to Output Shaft Tip: 28" (718mm)
Dodge 8HP75 Swap Overall Length from Bell Housing Adapter to Intermediate Shaft Tip: 32.7" (830.3mm)

Gear ratios for the Dodge 8HP75 are as follows:
1st 4.71:1
2nd 3.14:1
3rd 2.10:1
4th 1.67:1
5th 1.29:1
6th 1.00:1
7th 0.84:1
8th 0.67:1
Reverse 3.30:1

Gear Ratios A343F in the J80:
1st 2.804:1
2nd 1.531:1
3rd 1.000:1
OD .753:1
R 2.393:1

First gear is 68% lower. Not quite a doubler unit for crawling, but significantly lower. I am running the 3.1:1 transfer case gears and 4.88 gears in the diffs. With the 4.71: first gear in the 8HP75: 4.71 * 3.1 * 4.88 = 71.25: 1 crawl ratio on 37" tires. This is more than low enough for what I do with the rig. Final O/D is 11% taller, dropping RPM when cruising at freeway speeds on flat ground.

Adapters are on order and should arrive in February. I did a co-design project with Domiworks in Sweden on the adapters. He will have them available for sale as a kit once the prototype is proven out.

DomiWorks - One Stop Shop for 8HP DCT PDK Transmission swaps

Your one stop shop for gearbox and transmission adapters for DCT, 8HP, PDK swaps. Wide range of adapters and accessories for the most popular engines like 2JZ, LS, K20, K24, Barra, RB26, VQ35, VQ37. We also offer 3D Scanning and product development, using our Creaform Handyscan Black Elite...

www.domi-works.com

I purchased an 8HP75 from a 2021 Dodge 1500 Hemi 5.7L V8 4x4 (must be V-8 to get the 8HP75). Those are readily available as Hemi Dodge owners are terrible drivers and wreck them all the time.... The 8HP75 in the Dodge pickups is made in Germany by ZF. It is rated for 525 ft-lbs of torque. I am running a Wit's End Turbo setup at 10 PSI of boost. This will give me some headroom over my current set up if I want to dial the boost up a bit more. The 3/4 ton trucks that came with the 6.4L Hemi get the 8HP75 LCV (Light Commercial Vehicle) variant with extra brazing on the torque converter, two gear sets with extra pinions, and a heavy duty parking pawl design. Otherwise identical, but cost about 2X of the 5.7 Hemi 8HP75.

Dodge does make one of the lower power rated 8HP transmissions under license in the US (8HP45) that is used in Jeeps and some Dodge vehicles. This transmission may be an option for stock 1FZ-FE's, as it is rated at 335 ft lbs of torque and ships behind the V6 in the Dodge pickups. It will be shorter above the crank centerline, as it has a different case and uses smaller diameter clutches and planetary gears. Not sure on the bell housing, transfer case and overall length geometries on that transmission. It may require a different set of adapters versus the 8HP75 behind the V8 in the Dodge pickups. And, it is made by Dodge, which does not bode well for quality, versus the 8HP75, which is made by ZF in Germany.

There is also an 8HP95 that is used in the high performance vehicles. That is made in Germany also, but is rare and expensive in the aftermarket. I guess you could push a turbo 1FZ-FE to the power levels that require the 8HP95, but, then you would break the transfer case or something else.

BMW uses the 8HP75 also in their AWD SUV's. The transmission case is longer on that version, which would push the transfer case back further. It does have the advantage of a 5:1 first gear. The transfer case adapter I designed with DomiWorks is a three piece design. There is a front plate that bolts to the Dodge 8HP75, a middle block that contains the J80 transmission mount geometry, and a rear plate that bolts to the stock J80 transfer case. DomiWorks plans on offering a front plate that would bolt to the BMW transmission, as he already has products that do that and it is an easy part to swap out on the adapter. Mostly he intends that for Europe, where getting Dodge pickup transmissions is difficult.

My rig has a 1" body lift, which will make clearing the 8HP75 in the transmission tunnel easier. The 8HP75 is taller above the crank centerline by about 1" (4" for the 8HP75, 3" for the A343F). I have designed an adapter plate that bolts to the 8HP75 and holds the transfer case shift lever on top, mimicking the A343F.

The mechanical side of these swaps is the easy part. The electronics is a big hurdle. The TCU's are not plug and play. They need access to engine data to determine load conditions and need refining beyond an initial set point to achieve good drivability. If you get that wrong, you can cause severe damage to the transmission. Good news is that once someone nails down the settings for any given configuration, it can be shared with others who then do not need to go through the learning process.

The stock, integrated ECU/TCU will throw a check engine light if the stock transmission is not there. This is a deal breaker for those who have to do periodic smog inspections. (I am working on a fix for this.)

The 8HP transmissions have an integrated TCU in the valve body. This TCU needs to be bypassed. You need to remove the valve body, remove the TCU module, cut open the sealed compartment it lives in, cut all the bonding wires that go to the TCU, and then solder in a jumper PCA that routes all of those signals out to the connector on the side of the transmission for the TurboLamik TCU to access. Sounds worst than it is, but, no sense in getting a warranty on your donor, as you are going to void it when you eliminate the stock TCU. Buy one that came from a wreck that is demonstrated to run and drive.

The TurboLamik TCU works with BMW electronic shifters, plug and play. I have finished a 3D printed adapter design to put a BMW 6 series shifter in place of the stock J80 mechanical shifter. This does require mods to the shifter assembly, including cutting out brackets and the shifter pivot shaft assembly. The knob in the front is an 8 position shift map selector from TurboLamik. Not sure if I can come up with 8 shift maps for the J80.

And lastly, since this is a purely electronic transmission (no shift linkage at all), and Park is controlled by the TCU, and when turned off the default is that the parking pawl is engaged, there is a small linkage on the side of the transmission to manually take the rig out of park when it has to be towed. Right now I am going to put a small bracket down there and then I can use a pin to retain the lever if needed. The cars that ship with this transmission have a lever in the cab that is pulled and ratchets, keeping the transmission out of park.

I should receive the adapters in mid/late February. Will then start the swap and will have a bunch of updates once that gets going.

@landtank and @Alex79 have been a big help on this project. Alex is a good source for spare parts for J80's.

Mike