1FZ trans swaps 6R80 10R80 and more (2 Viewers)

[OutlawMike]

I just spent some time reading the 8HP swap from the beginning! Congrats on sticking with it in a relatively short amount of time and making it actually work albeit with some minor pitfalls for being an innovator on it. I live in SF and was excited to see that you are in Santa Rosa. I have '95 LC, supercharged, 4.88's, 35's, armor etc so we are "similar" setups. Back in 2009 I had a GT35R turbo setup on my '97 LX450 with only 6psi but it definitely was spicy enough.

I was trying to PM you... but your inbox is full. I'm guessing you are flooded from this post hahaha. I would love a ride/check out your truck one day when it is a little more dialed in.

Did you ever do a fuel economy loop test with the new setup? I was curious how it had improved.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. yes, I did a fuel economy test after the swap. Post #171 documents that. The fuel economy improved by 15.6%, or about 2 mpg. Got 15.6 mpg after the swap.

I cleaned out my inbox, I can get PM's now.

As far as checking out the truck, I would be cool with that. Ping me if you are up this way at some point. I am just north of Santa Rosa in Larkfield.

 

[OutlawMike]

8HP75 Swap Parts List

I have put together a spreadsheet listing pretty much all of the parts required to do this swap. I also include a list of the parts that need modification and also a page for parts that need to be fabricated. I included pricing, links to where I purchased the parts, and page/post numbers for reference.

8HP75 Swap Parts List

 

[OutlawMike]

So do we have a complete parts list needed for this?

Curious how this would work with the OBD1 rigs with a separate TCU

Hi Joe. Parts list is posted now. As for the OBD1 rigs, the TCU does need a throttle position sensor input. I am not familiar with the OBD1 rigs. Does it have a TPS? The other required inputs are no problem. RPM, MAP (stand alone sensor), and footbrake. The TPS would be the one hurdle. Otherwise, this would be easier, as the ECU would not care that the stock transmission is not there, I believe.

 

[alia176]

I read most of this thread, I think! I've learned a lot, think I got most of the info here. Even though I'm an EE, i try not to strain my brain a whole bunch if I don't have to.

Here I am drooling at the spare 5speed transmission out of a V8 4runner sitting in the back yard and how am I going to stuff it into the 80, but now I'm all discombobulated.

 

[JoeCova]

Hi Joe. Parts list is posted now. As for the OBD1 rigs, the TCU does need a throttle position sensor input. I am not familiar with the OBD1 rigs. Does it have a TPS? The other required inputs are no problem. RPM, MAP (stand alone sensor), and footbrake. The TPS would be the one hurdle. Otherwise, this would be easier, as the ECU would not care that the stock transmission is not there, I believe.

I’m reading through the FSM and it’s looks like there’s a TPS on top in the throttle body.

 

[Marvelicious]

I read most of this thread, I think! I've learned a lot, think I got most of the info here. Even though I'm an EE, i try not to strain my brain a whole bunch if I don't have to.

Here I am drooling at the spare 5speed transmission out of a V8 4runner sitting in the back yard and how am I going to stuff it into the 80, but now I'm all discombobulated.

I did the same thing when I first saw people working on this swap. I gave it a lot of thought and here's what I came up with:

• The 4 speed that came with my 80 could use better gearing... both more gears and a lower first.
• 5 is more than 4 and would be a little better.
• 8 is twice as many as 4, and would be a lot better!

You can see I put on my thinking cap.

For the effort required to swap in a 5 speed, I feel like going the extra mile and going to the 8 would be worth it. The mileage improvement just comes along for the ride, but the improved driveability would be huge.

 

[OutlawMike]

I’m reading through the FSM and it’s looks like there’s a TPS on top in the throttle body.

If it has a TPS, then I think it would be a bit easier than with the 95-97 rigs that have a PCM (integrated ECU/TCU). It is a pretty involved project, but, nothing insurmountable. I love how the rig drives now and with the turbo kit, it stays in the boost during shifts, keeping the power going to the ground.

I spliced into the TPS and RPM signal at the PCM on my rig. Just spliced into them and ran them to the TurboLamik. The footbrake signal I grabbed under the driver's side dash and ran that to the TurboLamik. The MAP sensor is a stand alone sensor, no splicing required, other than ignition controlled 12V.

 

[OutlawMike]

I printed up some emblems for the back of my J80. Gotta advertise my mods!

 

[OutlawMike]

I did the same thing when I first saw people working on this swap. I gave it a lot of thought and here's what I came up with:

• The 4 speed that came with my 80 could use better gearing... both more gears and a lower first.
• 5 is more than 4 and would be a little better.
• 8 is twice as many as 4, and would be a lot better!

You can see I put on my thinking cap.

For the effort required to swap in a 5 speed, I feel like going the extra mile and going to the 8 would be worth it. The mileage improvement just comes along for the ride, but the improved driveability would be huge.

Plus, the shifts are so fast on the 8HP. In manual mode you can tack it up, bump the shifter, bam, next gear. Love hard acceleration in manual mode, just really flies through the RPM's.

 

[alia176]

Plus, the shifts are so fast on the 8HP. In manual mode you can tack it up, bump the shifter, bam, next gear. Love hard acceleration in manual mode, just really flies through the RPM's.

Mine is turbo as well and this sounds divine, almost pornographic like.

 

[OutlawMike]

Mine is turbo as well and this sounds divine, almost pornographic like.

The 8 speed really changes the drive response of the J80. Mine is turbo, so I have more power on tap once the boost builds. I would be curious how it changes a naturally aspirated J80.

 

[OutlawMike]

Wanted to post up my recent experience with a Ford 10R80 transmission.... My pickup is a 2017 F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost and the 10R80 10 speed transmission. I normally do not purchase extended warranties, as on average they are a waste of money. But, when I bought the F150 new in 2017, it was the first year and model that got the 10R80, so, I bought an 8 year extended warranty that ends in April.

Since September I had noticed some weird things with the F150. Under light acceleration and shifting from 3-4, 4-5, and 5-6 there would be these blips, or impulses, you could feel in the drivetrain. Felt almost like the engine was cutting out, but, there were no misfire codes. I took it in to the dealer and they could not replicate the complaint. Thank you very much for the $250 diagnostic fee. It only happened when the transmission was fully warmed up and on long drives. So, kind of hard to reproduce it on a short diagnostic drive.

Over Christmas break the trans took a dump. While accelerating onto the freeway it shifted from 7th to 1st, redlined the motor, and after I got it slowed down, could not get it to shift past 3rd. Fan went on high, and a powertrain fault warning popped up on the dash. Had it towed to the dealer and they did some diagnostics, multiple issues in the transmission, needed to come out and get torn down to then get approval for a new, remanufactured transmission.

Three weeks later I had it back with a new, reman transmission in it with two major upgrades. ($10,500 charge back to Ford, $100 deductible from me.)

The first issue the 10R80 has is the pressed in bushing in the CDF clutch drum loses the press fit and starts to walk radially and axially. Eventually the pressure ports in the bushing block off some ports and open pressure to others that should not be happening. That is the 7th to 1st gig. The fix is a new design with both an anti-rotation feature and a lip so it cannot walk axially. (Look up 10R80 CDF Drum Bushing on the web.)

The second issue is the F clutch digging into the spline features in the aluminum outer shell (trash can is what people call it). The aluminum deforms under load and the F clutch hangs up in the divots. The fix for that is a little Jethro, they hard anodized the aluminum shell, rather than press in steel sections for the splines. I have low confidence in that redesign. (Look up 10R80 outer shell or trash can on the web.)

So, if there ever is a TCU available for the 10R80, do not get one from 2017 to 2022. The fixes did not go into production until 2023. And, I am not all that confident in the fix for the outer shell, from an engineering standpoint.

Mike

 

[OutlawMike]

It is raining, I do not have any pressing projects, and I am waiting to see if I can register for Cruise MOAB. So, I am going to put some more detail up about the 8HP valve body removal and TCU jumper PCB installation.

First, to summarize, there is a PCB inside of the valve body assembly that needs to be bypassed. It is in a sealed chamber and has aluminum bond wires running out to contacts in the chamber that then route to/from the connector on the side of the transmission, the input and output speed sensors, the trans fluid temp sensor, and the 9x solenoids that control the shifting. To use the donor transmission with the TurboLamik TCU, you will need to remove the valve body from the transmission and then remove the plastic TCU/wiring/connector assembly from the valve body. You will then need to disassemble the plastic TCU/wiring/connector assembly and cut open the housing in which the TCU resides, cut off all of the bond wires, clean up the contacts where the bond wires were bonded, pour epoxy over the original TCU, install the jumper PCB, solder the contacts to the jumper PCB, verify continuity on all pins and also that there is no short to ground, then pot the entire PCB to seal it up and prevent contamination with trans fluid. There is a machined cover offered that you can epoxy over this area, rather than pot it, but, I did that and it leaked, and I had to get towed down from the top of Highway 4 in the Sierra, and then trailer my rig home. I then had to remove the valve body, open up the TCU area, clean it, pot it, and put it back in. I do not trust that cover not to leak.

This video shows the removal and install procedure:




How to remove the valve body:

1. Put the transmission on a bench, move the trans pan drain plug over the edge of the bench, and make sure it is as drained.
2. Get one of the large metal drip trays from Oreilly and put the transmission in that drip tray.
3. Stand the transmission up on the bell housing in the drip tray, plastic trans pan facing towards you and remove the bolts.
4. Pop the trans pan off, revealing the valve body assembly.
5. At the top, solenoid end of the valve body there are four bolts that need to be removed. Remove the circled bolts below.
6. The top most bolt holds in the output speed sensor. After removing that bolt, tug on the speed sensor to pull it out.
7. The right most bolt retains a metal clip for the connector shroud that goes to the outside. Pull up on that metal clip to release it.
8. You will need to pull the connector shroud that sticks outside the trans case. Pull it from the outside and remove it.
9. This will clear the connector to be removed with the valve body.

10. There are 14x bolts that hold the valve body to the trans case. Remove the circled bolts below.
11. There is a lever arm on the left side (drivers side) of the transmission. That is to disengage Park when towing.
12. Rotate that lever to then be able to pull the valve body out and place it in the tray next to the transmission.

View of the inside of the case after removing the valve body:

Disassembly of valve body continued in next post.

 

[OutlawMike]

Now you should have the valve body in the tray, next to the transmission. Push the transmission over to one end and cover it with a large plastic trash back to keep dust from getting inside.

13. The valve body has a plastic TCU/Connector/Wiring PCM assembly attached to the top side of it. This needs to be removed.
14. There is one connector that needs to be unplugged. Be careful with the retention snap on that connector.
15. There are five bolts on the bottom side of the valve body that engage threaded inserts in the black plastic part.
16. After removing those bolts, you can pull up on the plastic assembly and disengage it from the solenoid contacts.

There is a good video on this procedure linked below. Disregard the steps to remove the sub harness and the "hist pump?" That is not present in the Dodge 1500 V8 4x4 8HP75. The relevant section starts at 5:30.

 

[OutlawMike]

Put the valve body to the side, in a plastic bag, so that it does not get contaminated. Move the TCM/TCU/PCM assembly to another bench, away from the valve body and the transmission. You may want to spray it off with contact cleaner, or some other plastic safe electronics degreaser.

The TCM assembly is a clamshell with plastic snaps and several plastic welded locations between the two halves. Those plastic welded locations need to be ground out with a Dremel tool to then allow the plastic snaps to be released and the two halves pulled apart.

There is a good video on this process linked below:

Once you have the two halves separated you now have access to the lid on the TCU housing. It lives in the metal can that is part of one half of the plastic clamshell. The video above includes how to cut this open with a Dremel cutting wheel. I did this differently. I used a Dremel barrel sander and sanded down the radius at the top to ensure I did not cut too low on the sides and damage any of the contacts. This also leaves the tallest metal walls possible for potting after you solder in the jumper PCB.

Now you have access to the TCU that is wire bonded into the contacts. The next step is to cut all of the bond wires off short at the TCU, then cut them off of the contacts. Then clean the top of the contacts to remove the bond wire remnants. An Exacto knife worked pretty good at cutting off the bond remnants on the top of the contacts. Deburr the upper edges of the sheetmetal walls, removing any loose or hanging burrs.

After that, you need to clean the heck out of everything, using a tooth brush, electrical contact cleaner, air, etc. Clean the entire assembly, get rid off all of the plastic and metal dust, and pay particular attention to cleaning around the base of the contacts, where they enter the plastic assembly to get all of the metal fragments out of there. The video above shows this also.

 

[Marvelicious]

Put the valve body to the side, in a plastic bag, so that it does not get contaminated. Move the TCM/TCU/PCM assembly to another bench, away from the valve body and the transmission. You may want to spray it off with contact cleaner, or some other plastic safe electronics degreaser.

The TCM assembly is a clamshell with plastic snaps and several plastic welded locations between the two halves. Those plastic welded locations need to be ground out with a Dremel tool to then allow the plastic snaps to be released and the two halves pulled apart.

There is a good video on this process linked below:



View attachment 3830191


Once you have the two halves separated you now have access to the lid on the TCU housing. It lives in the metal can that is part of one half of the plastic clamshell. The video above includes how to cut this open with a Dremel cutting wheel. I did this differently. I used a Dremel barrel sander and sanded down the radius at the top to ensure I did not cut too low on the sides and damage any of the contacts. This also leaves the tallest metal walls possible for potting after you solder in the jumper PCB.

View attachment 3830201

View attachment 3830202

Now you have access to the TCU that is wire bonded into the contacts. The next step is to cut all of the bond wires off short at the TCU, then cut them off of the contacts. Then clean the top of the contacts to remove the bond wire remnants. An Exacto knife worked pretty good at cutting off the bond remnants on the top of the contacts. Deburr the upper edges of the sheetmetal walls, removing any loose or hanging burrs.

After that, you need to clean the heck out of everything, using a tooth brush, electrical contact cleaner, air, etc. Clean the entire assembly, get rid off all of the plastic and metal dust, and pay particular attention to cleaning around the base of the contacts, where they enter the plastic assembly to get all of the metal fragments out of there. The video above shows this also.

I knew that had to be opened up and changed out for that little PCB, but I didn't realize it was quite so buried. Not a hard job, but it's in there DEEP.

 

[OutlawMike]

Once you have the assembly clean, clean, and clean, test continuity between all of the contacts and the metal case. None of them should be shorted to the metal case. If any of them are, then there is some metal debris down around the base of the contact and you need to clean it some more. None of them should have continuity to any adjacent pin without the PCB installed.

This video is shows this whole process again, including the soldering, which is the next step, and the bench testing of the reassembled valve body. This is very important. You can turn on your TurboLamik TCU on a bench and plug in the shifter, the display, the rotary knob, the MAP sensor, and the valve body. You will get a couple of errors for the RPM and TPS, but you can ignore those. This will tell you if you have any shorts or disconnects in the assembly before soldering the PCB, before epoxy potting the PCB, before putting the valve body back in the transmission and before installing the transmission into the rig. Yes, you will want to do four separate bench tests along the way to make sure each step has not caused an issue.

You will want to epoxy pot the PCB in. do not use the metal covers that are sold. I did that, it leaked, and I was stranded on at the top of the Sierra on Highway 4. Ruined an off road trip before the off road portion even started.

I did the epoxy potting in two steps. As you will notice, the "snot" that they cover the TCU PCA with collects a lot of metal fragments I tried to clean that snot off, but that was very difficult and time consuming. In the end, I decided to pot that PCA first, to the red line shown below, just below the level that the PCB will sit on. I set the TCU assembly on a bench on some sockets, shimmed them with paper until the TCU area was level. I then injected epoxy into that area until it was at the line, and let that harden overnight. The next day I did another continuity test, verified that I did not have any shorts, then soldered the PCB in.

The videos above do a good job of showing the soldering process. You will jumper solder across on the terminals shown. It is a bit of a slow process and you will need to check continuity to the metal housing as you go. No contact should show continuity to the metal housing!

Some of the adjacent contacts are connected to each other in the PCB. You should have continuity between the following adjacent contacts after soldering:

A12-A13

A14-A15

B10-B11-B12-B13

None of the other adjacent contacts should have continuity. If they do, then you shorted them together with solder and need to clean that up.

A small amount of flux on the contact and PCB solder pad helps in the process. Too much, and then you have a mess....

If you are curious what the PCB is doing, the diagram below shows the contacts that are connected. The first wave of these swaps had wires soldered between the contacts, before the PCB was developed. Note, the image below is from the bottom side and the contact labels are reversed on the sides. No idea why the PCB called this out differently. Do not use the image below for contact labeling!!!!!!

After checking for shorts to the metal case or to adjacent pins (except for the list of adjacent pins above), you are ready for a bench test. After you verify that you only have the expected error codes (TPS, MAP, RPM, if not hooked up). You are good to pot the PCB in place. I would check continuity one more time...

As before, level the plastic assembly on some sockets and shim it until level. Then fill it with epoxy just to the top of the metal walls. Let it cure overnight.

After potting, do a bench test and hope it is still good... If not, then you have to source another one of these TCU assemblies and start over. No way you are getting that epoxy out. If this scares the crap out of you, go the route of the metal lid, but, mine leaked....

Then you reassembly, which is reverse of disassembly. Know that if you use the metal lid, it does not fit into the plastic clamshell and you will need to carve on the plastic with a Dremel to clearance the plastic.

After the valve body is reassembled, do a bench test. If it passed that, you can put it back into the transmission. They do another bench test. If it passes that test, then you are good for install.

I never failed one of the bench tests. Only failure I had was when the metal cover leaked on me and trans fluid flooded into the PCB area.

If you want to see what the metal lid looks like, DomiWorks sells them:

 

[OutlawMike]

I knew that had to be opened up and changed out for that little PCB, but I didn't realize it was quite so buried. Not a hard job, but it's in there DEEP.

Not really that hard, as you say, but a bit daunting as you get into it. Same as a lot of things. The cleaning of the assembly after all of the Dremel and bond wire removal is done is really the most difficult part. It has to be as clean as you can get it. On the TurboLamik Facebook page, the majority of the error codes discussed are for shorts to ground on the contacts. When the metal cover leaked on mine, it threw a short to ground error and then went into limp home mode. I am now of the opinion that you bench test the crap out of the assembly as you go and pot that PCB in to never have a shorting issue.

 

[Marvelicious]

Yeah, that's a "Do it once, but do it right," kind of job. No reason you should ever need to get back in there if you can make good solder joints and double check all your work. Just pot it and forget about it. Makes sense to me.

The PCB also seems worth the money to me since it should be considerably more robust than jumper wires.

 

[CJK]

@OutlawMike — any chance you could share videos of driving around?