I can imagine how alert you were when the truck was doing 60mph on jack stands
Thanks for sharing all this with us — seriously incredible
1FZ trans swaps 6R80 10R80 and more (6 Viewers)
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I can imagine how alert you were when the truck was doing 60mph on jack stands
Thanks for sharing all this with us — seriously incredible
I should note that the front driveline was out with the center diff locked, so, only the rear axle was spinning. I thought afterward that with the tires off, there would be far less rotational inertia, that would have been safer.I can imagine how alert you were when the truck was doing 60mph on jack stands
Thanks for sharing all this with us — seriously incredible
...and a bit less traction if it had fallen off the jackstands at 60 mph.
Very true. I may have gotten away with one on this. Reminds me of the little jingle:
Time to do some sketchy s***, doo da, doo da.
Hope I get away with it, oh the doo da day.
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I’m just imagining the phone call dialogue to the insurance agents with the home policy AND auto policy.
A phrase I heard more than a few times from my dad while learning to wrench: "you're 1 oops away from an ouch". I hear it in my head whenever I'm about to do something sketchy
Moving on from sketchy stuff that I should not have been doing...
Got the leaks fixed on the cooler lines this evening. Changed all of the constant tension clamps to fuel line style clamps. No more leaks after a 20 minute test drive. Did not have time to do adaptations tonight, so, tomorrow night I will get that done, then it is off to the exhaust shop, as I am driving around without a muffler right now. Not as loud as you would think with the turbo and both cat's.
Got the leaks fixed on the cooler lines this evening. Changed all of the constant tension clamps to fuel line style clamps. No more leaks after a 20 minute test drive. Did not have time to do adaptations tonight, so, tomorrow night I will get that done, then it is off to the exhaust shop, as I am driving around without a muffler right now. Not as loud as you would think with the turbo and both cat's.
Well, I am done, as crazy as that sounds. Exhaust is redone, adaptations are done, fluid level is set. Drove it a bunch today. The shifts are way better than in the beginning, so, the adaptations do something. First gear is so low that I use a program that starts out in second. Second gear is 3.14 : 1, the stock first gear is 2.80 : 1, so, it still pulls harder than stock. Cruising at 65 on the freeway in 8th gear puts me at just a touch over 2k RPM. I will be doing the same fuel mileage run as I did before the swap and will post those numbers.
I am behind on posting about the wiring side of the swap. I need to get that done before I forget all about it.
Also, what else does anyone want to see? I am going to try to get a video of driving it and shifting through all of the gears, just need to get the right phone mount to record the TurboLamik display, the tach, and the 14 in 1 gauge. I may plumb RPM into the 14 in 1, then it would be on that display.
Anything else anyone wants pictures or videos of?
Thanks,
Mike
I am behind on posting about the wiring side of the swap. I need to get that done before I forget all about it.
Also, what else does anyone want to see? I am going to try to get a video of driving it and shifting through all of the gears, just need to get the right phone mount to record the TurboLamik display, the tach, and the 14 in 1 gauge. I may plumb RPM into the 14 in 1, then it would be on that display.
Anything else anyone wants pictures or videos of?
Thanks,
Mike
I imagine that super low first would be great for wheeling though. Kinda like having an extra low t-case gearset, only you can get out of it on the fly. I'm going to have to revisit this at some point because it seems like a pretty good option.
That is exactly what sent me down this road. I had been looking at the Northwest Fab Black Box reduction unit, but, that moves the T-case back by 7" and requires gas tank mods.
Then I saw a video on YouTube from Australia where they were swapping an 8HP70 into a 79 series Land Cruiser. They used the TurboLamik TCU. I went off on that tangent and the 4.7 : 1 first gear is 68% lower, which gets it close to a doubler. After that I found DomiWorks and asked Daniel if he had ever considered doing a kit for a J80. We talked and put together a partnership on developing the kit.
I went out tonight and did some more adaptation runs. The shifts need some more refinement and I think the adaptation algorithm has reached it's limit. In the lower gears there is a bit of a secondary, I don't know, surge? Push? There is the primary shift then a bit of a bump, bump after that. It is not there in the taller gears.
But, I did some WOT runs tonight, and damn, the J80 is almost too quick now. The boost ramps up fast, hitting the 10 PSI alarm on the 14:1. The shifts hit, bam, bam, bam, bam. Stays in the boost until it gets up to 6th. Almost too fast for a rig that big an heavy. Feels like an entirely different rig. On the freeway, it purrs along at 2k at 65. I really want to see what the mileage numbers show this weekend.
Not a cheap mod, that is for sure. Cool factor is there, and I learned a lot more about the J80 during all of this.
I do have a check engine light for the stock transmission not being there. I will document what codes it is throwing. As I recall from reading all of the manual swap threads, no one every figured out a way to trick the stock ECU into thinking the stock transmission is still there. I have another path I am investigating and will be implementing that at the end of summer, to see if I can get the rig to be OBDII compliant again. This is important for those who have to do smog checks, which I do not, but I want to see if the plan works.
Fuel Mileage Test - Post Install - 15.6 % increase
I did the post install fuel mileage test this morning.
Test was a drive from Santa Rosa to Cloverdale and back.
Distance: 54.0 miles
Tire Pressure: 35 PSI all tires
Set Speed: 65 mph
1997 J80, 37" tires, 4.88 gears, Wit's End turbo kit, rack on roof (no tent installed).
Stock A343F gearing:
1st 2.804:1
2nd 1.531:1
3rd 1.000:1
OD .753:1
R 2.393:1
ZF 8HP75 from 2021 Dodge 1500 V8 gearing:
1st 4.71:1
2nd 3.14:1
3rd 2.10:1
4th 1.67:1
5th 1.29:1
6th 1.00:1
7th 0.84:1
8th 0.67:1
Reverse 3.30:1
8th gear in the 8HP75 is 11% taller. 7th gear is 11.6% lower.
Before swap outside temp: 75 C
Before swap fuel consumed: 4.07 gallons
Before swap fuel mileage: 13.27 mpg
After swap outside temp: 82 C
After swap fuel consumed: 3.52 gallons
After swap fuel mileage: 15.34 mpg
Fuel Mileage Increase: 2.07 mpg
Fuel Mileage Increase (%): 15.6 %
I was hoping for 10 %. It was a nice surprise to find 15 %.
I have an 18 gallon sub tank along with the 24 gallon stock tank. That gives me 42 gallons total on board. Range before the swap was 557.34 miles on a flat freeway. After my range is 622.28 miles. But, I cannot get all of the fuel out of the sub tank, nor can I run the main tank dry. If I assume that I will use 35 gallons before refueling, then range is 464.5 before and 536.9 after.
No way the fuel savings pays for this modifications, not by a long shot.
A couple of other things I noticed. Before the swap, with the turbo kit, on this drive the transmission never shifted down out of fourth gear (out of overdrive).
With the new transmission and a second overdrive that is 11% taller than before. Twice the new transmission would shift down out of 8th to 7th gear. And once, on the way back, same hill, opposite side, it shifted down to 7th, back up to 8th, then down to 7th again. Kind of hunted for a gear on that small hill by Geyserville. I would prefer that it just hold 7th longer, will need to see if I can modify those parameters in the TurboLamik. I hate it when the transmission hunts around on hill climbs.
Another thing I noticed is how long it took for the transmission to reach steady state temperature. I was almost to Cloverdale on the drive up before it leveled out at 172 F (78C). Stayed there the rest of the time up and back.
So, as expected, better fuel mileage by 15.6 % from the taller final gear (8th) and also less parasitic loss in the transmission.
Thanks,
Mike
I did the post install fuel mileage test this morning.
Test was a drive from Santa Rosa to Cloverdale and back.
Distance: 54.0 miles
Tire Pressure: 35 PSI all tires
Set Speed: 65 mph
1997 J80, 37" tires, 4.88 gears, Wit's End turbo kit, rack on roof (no tent installed).
Stock A343F gearing:
1st 2.804:1
2nd 1.531:1
3rd 1.000:1
OD .753:1
R 2.393:1
ZF 8HP75 from 2021 Dodge 1500 V8 gearing:
1st 4.71:1
2nd 3.14:1
3rd 2.10:1
4th 1.67:1
5th 1.29:1
6th 1.00:1
7th 0.84:1
8th 0.67:1
Reverse 3.30:1
8th gear in the 8HP75 is 11% taller. 7th gear is 11.6% lower.
Before swap outside temp: 75 C
Before swap fuel consumed: 4.07 gallons
Before swap fuel mileage: 13.27 mpg
After swap outside temp: 82 C
After swap fuel consumed: 3.52 gallons
After swap fuel mileage: 15.34 mpg
Fuel Mileage Increase: 2.07 mpg
Fuel Mileage Increase (%): 15.6 %
I was hoping for 10 %. It was a nice surprise to find 15 %.
I have an 18 gallon sub tank along with the 24 gallon stock tank. That gives me 42 gallons total on board. Range before the swap was 557.34 miles on a flat freeway. After my range is 622.28 miles. But, I cannot get all of the fuel out of the sub tank, nor can I run the main tank dry. If I assume that I will use 35 gallons before refueling, then range is 464.5 before and 536.9 after.
No way the fuel savings pays for this modifications, not by a long shot.
A couple of other things I noticed. Before the swap, with the turbo kit, on this drive the transmission never shifted down out of fourth gear (out of overdrive).
With the new transmission and a second overdrive that is 11% taller than before. Twice the new transmission would shift down out of 8th to 7th gear. And once, on the way back, same hill, opposite side, it shifted down to 7th, back up to 8th, then down to 7th again. Kind of hunted for a gear on that small hill by Geyserville. I would prefer that it just hold 7th longer, will need to see if I can modify those parameters in the TurboLamik. I hate it when the transmission hunts around on hill climbs.
Another thing I noticed is how long it took for the transmission to reach steady state temperature. I was almost to Cloverdale on the drive up before it leveled out at 172 F (78C). Stayed there the rest of the time up and back.
So, as expected, better fuel mileage by 15.6 % from the taller final gear (8th) and also less parasitic loss in the transmission.
Thanks,
Mike
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Cruise Control - How to get it to work after the swap.
(Edited below to correct a mistake on which wire to splice into. The B-W wire, pin #14 is the correct, ignition controlled wire.)
The Cruise Control will not work after the swap, as the control module requires a signal from the A343F A/T Selector Switch that the transmission is in Drive. This signal comes in on Pin #2 on a Black and Orange wire (B-O).
I verified that this signal is +12V when in Drive, before the swap.
The simple way to trick the Cruise Control Module (CCM) is to cut the Black and White wire (B-W), Pin #14 and cut the B-O wire and splice the side of the B-O wire that goes into the connector into the B-W wire. These are next to each other on the connector, different rows. Pin #14 is the ignition controlled power wire into the (CCM). This modification tells the module that the transmission is in Drive all the time. The downside is, you could theoretically set the cruise control in Reverse or when in Manual mode, locked into a gear. Do not do that and you will be fine.
I am still trying to find a way to get the TurboLamik to send an Analog signal out (+12 V) on one of the unused Analog Outputs for when the transmission is in drive (Analog Out 2 and 4, Pin #s 47 and 48 on TCU) . It should be able to do that, but it may take a bit of code on the side of TurboLamik. If I can get that done, then I would undo the above and put that Analog input into this location, as well as the dash (D) indicator light. There is a variable voltage output for Neutral, Reverse, and gears 1 thru 8 (Analog Out 1, Pin #46). There is also a Reverse Output signal (Pin #57) But, there is no "Drive" output for use by the CCM.
There are two other A343F ECU related pins on the CCM. Pin #9 (Green and Orange, G-O) is a signal from the TCU that the A343F is in Overdrive. Pin #22 is a signal out from the CCM to the ECU to turn the Overdrive off. I did not do any modifications for either of these signals, so, I assume what that means is that with the above modification the CCM assumes it is in Drive and the lack of a signal from the ECU on Pin #9 makes it think it is in 3rd gear and thus, there is never any call to ask to turn OD off on Pin #22. Cruise control works fine with the one modification above.
And lastly, if you do not know where the CCM is, it is up above the brake pedal, attached to the bottom of the steering column assembly. Easy to get to and modify.
Mike
(Edited below to correct a mistake on which wire to splice into. The B-W wire, pin #14 is the correct, ignition controlled wire.)
The Cruise Control will not work after the swap, as the control module requires a signal from the A343F A/T Selector Switch that the transmission is in Drive. This signal comes in on Pin #2 on a Black and Orange wire (B-O).
I verified that this signal is +12V when in Drive, before the swap.
The simple way to trick the Cruise Control Module (CCM) is to cut the Black and White wire (B-W), Pin #14 and cut the B-O wire and splice the side of the B-O wire that goes into the connector into the B-W wire. These are next to each other on the connector, different rows. Pin #14 is the ignition controlled power wire into the (CCM). This modification tells the module that the transmission is in Drive all the time. The downside is, you could theoretically set the cruise control in Reverse or when in Manual mode, locked into a gear. Do not do that and you will be fine.
I am still trying to find a way to get the TurboLamik to send an Analog signal out (+12 V) on one of the unused Analog Outputs for when the transmission is in drive (Analog Out 2 and 4, Pin #s 47 and 48 on TCU) . It should be able to do that, but it may take a bit of code on the side of TurboLamik. If I can get that done, then I would undo the above and put that Analog input into this location, as well as the dash (D) indicator light. There is a variable voltage output for Neutral, Reverse, and gears 1 thru 8 (Analog Out 1, Pin #46). There is also a Reverse Output signal (Pin #57) But, there is no "Drive" output for use by the CCM.
There are two other A343F ECU related pins on the CCM. Pin #9 (Green and Orange, G-O) is a signal from the TCU that the A343F is in Overdrive. Pin #22 is a signal out from the CCM to the ECU to turn the Overdrive off. I did not do any modifications for either of these signals, so, I assume what that means is that with the above modification the CCM assumes it is in Drive and the lack of a signal from the ECU on Pin #9 makes it think it is in 3rd gear and thus, there is never any call to ask to turn OD off on Pin #22. Cruise control works fine with the one modification above.
And lastly, if you do not know where the CCM is, it is up above the brake pedal, attached to the bottom of the steering column assembly. Easy to get to and modify.
Mike
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TurboLamik Harness:
The TurboLamik Harness is a bit spendy, for a wiring harness, but will save you some time in creating quality harness. It does come in two flavors : CAN and Analog Input. When I ordered mine, the Analog Input harness was not available, so, I bought the CAN harness and added the Analog Input wires to the harness.
TurboLamik USA has the two flavors of harness for sale. $499 for the Analog Input version and $475 for the CAN version.
TurboLamik TCU Harness
The harness I received had one more wire bundle with it that is not shown above. It was a three wire bundle for a Virtual Clutch, which is more of a drifting thing. I repurposed it by moving one pin in the TCU plug to use it for the MAP sensor input.
Below is a map showing the pin numbers and locations used in the TCU plug I have in my setup. I moved a couple of the pins around in the harness for Sensor Ground and +5V out to make the harness wires route easier. Green circles are used locations. Red X's are not connected. A few of these will be different from the TurboLamik pinout descriptions.
Below is the pinout for the TCU plug for the Series C units. Also, a link for where this is located on the TurboLamik page. Note that the locations with a redboxed number are in the Transmission plug, and the number is the pin number in that plug. A bunch of the other pins are also in a pre-wired plug or wire bundle in the TurboLamik Harness (Shifter Plug, TurboLamik Display Plug, Program Selector Bundle, and Virtual Clutch (repurposed as MAP Sensor) Bundle).
TurboLamik Series C Pinout Table
The TurboLamik Harness is a bit spendy, for a wiring harness, but will save you some time in creating quality harness. It does come in two flavors : CAN and Analog Input. When I ordered mine, the Analog Input harness was not available, so, I bought the CAN harness and added the Analog Input wires to the harness.
TurboLamik USA has the two flavors of harness for sale. $499 for the Analog Input version and $475 for the CAN version.
TurboLamik TCU Harness
The harness I received had one more wire bundle with it that is not shown above. It was a three wire bundle for a Virtual Clutch, which is more of a drifting thing. I repurposed it by moving one pin in the TCU plug to use it for the MAP sensor input.
Below is a map showing the pin numbers and locations used in the TCU plug I have in my setup. I moved a couple of the pins around in the harness for Sensor Ground and +5V out to make the harness wires route easier. Green circles are used locations. Red X's are not connected. A few of these will be different from the TurboLamik pinout descriptions.
Below is the pinout for the TCU plug for the Series C units. Also, a link for where this is located on the TurboLamik page. Note that the locations with a redboxed number are in the Transmission plug, and the number is the pin number in that plug. A bunch of the other pins are also in a pre-wired plug or wire bundle in the TurboLamik Harness (Shifter Plug, TurboLamik Display Plug, Program Selector Bundle, and Virtual Clutch (repurposed as MAP Sensor) Bundle).
TurboLamik Series C Pinout Table
Working a long night shift with nothing to do, and this has been rolling around my head. 2mpg isn't that much in commuter terms, but I'll bet the difference at trail speeds is more significant: let's face it, 1st gear on the a343F is terrible. My 80 guzzles fuel on the trail, which would be a little more tolerable if it had any power. I've got several things on the short list to take care of first, but I'm trying to make my mind up about long term plans for this rig and this may just be in the cards. It's this or a diesel swap. (why not both? Aside from the money...)
If I ever decide to go with it, I'll definitely appreciate all the info you're putting into this thread.
I love the 8 speed. Turns the J80 into a modern vehicle, when combined with the turbo kit. The 8 speed behind the diesel would be a great combination.
I am going to push out some more wiring info, as that is probably the last bit of info I have not posted about. While the TurboLamik pinout chart above is pretty decent, I have put together a spreadsheet for my pinout (a few differences from the TurboLamik chart above) with additional information on what pins are used on the ECU and which wires in which bundle.
Link below to my spreadsheet, view only for those with the link. I have also pasted in a picture of the spreadsheet, just to document it, but I will make changes as time goes on, so, the picture is a snapshot in time. I am going to put in additional tabs for the Starter Relay, MAP sensor, Program Switch, and ?. These need some additional explanation and I think having them in the spreadsheet will be helpful for those referencing the pinout table.
The chart can be filtered at the top, with the down arrows. If you filter by wire bundle, that correlates to the colors of the cells and groups them by how they are done in the harness.
TurboLamik Series C Pinout Chart
Link below to my spreadsheet, view only for those with the link. I have also pasted in a picture of the spreadsheet, just to document it, but I will make changes as time goes on, so, the picture is a snapshot in time. I am going to put in additional tabs for the Starter Relay, MAP sensor, Program Switch, and ?. These need some additional explanation and I think having them in the spreadsheet will be helpful for those referencing the pinout table.
The chart can be filtered at the top, with the down arrows. If you filter by wire bundle, that correlates to the colors of the cells and groups them by how they are done in the harness.
TurboLamik Series C Pinout Chart
sbman
Supporting Vendor
I looked into fooling the ECU into thinking the stock transmission was in place, even though it is no longer there. The best I came up with was to put fake inputs to the ECU to think the trans was there and in Neutral or Low. To do this I think you need:
I never followed through with the work because I was going to swap a 5 speed manual trans in, but decided not to. A modern automatic sounds a lot better. There is no specific input for park to the ECU it does not seem to really differentiate between Neutral and Park. You could also try putting power to pin 17 "Low", and ground to pin 21 'TFN' to make it think it is in 'Low' and it may or may not throw codes in that position, but if the fuel/throttle/timing maps are different in gear, I think 'L' would be the least likely to throw a code, I think trying it out would be the only way to know, it all depends on how much logic is in the ECU comparing speed sensors and gear selection/etc... It may try to shift up from L when you exceed a certain RPM or vehicle speed even with L selected, don't know.
- 12 Ohm, 20 watt Power resistors to ground on ECU pins 8, 9 and 10 in place of the shift solenoids. I doubt the ECU will do more than verify the resistance since it will believe the trans is in P the whole time, but if it sends a signal to any of them, they will get warm.
- A resistor on ECU Pin 12 to simulate the A/T fluid temp sensor. Not sure of the value, but something that indicates 'warm'
- Grounding of ECU Pins 15, 16, 17 (Low, 2, R) to indicate that the trans is not in Low, 2 or R.
- GND on pin 21 TFN, vehicle is in 'Neutral' (+12 if you want it in 'Park')
- Ground ECU pin 19 (OD) to indicate Overdrive lockout
- Ground ECU pin 9 L4 (low range selected) to indicate low range not selected
I never followed through with the work because I was going to swap a 5 speed manual trans in, but decided not to. A modern automatic sounds a lot better. There is no specific input for park to the ECU it does not seem to really differentiate between Neutral and Park. You could also try putting power to pin 17 "Low", and ground to pin 21 'TFN' to make it think it is in 'Low' and it may or may not throw codes in that position, but if the fuel/throttle/timing maps are different in gear, I think 'L' would be the least likely to throw a code, I think trying it out would be the only way to know, it all depends on how much logic is in the ECU comparing speed sensors and gear selection/etc... It may try to shift up from L when you exceed a certain RPM or vehicle speed even with L selected, don't know.
What advantage/disadvantage might there be to installing a 10% OD gear into the transfer case with the current set-up?
cruiserteq.com
Sumo Gear Land Cruiser Transfer Case 10% Overdrive Gear Set - Fits 8x Series Full Time 4wd Models
Low Range Gear Reduction Sets for Toyota Land Cruiser Applications
cruiserteq.com
I knew you had worked on this, and pinged you last spring as I headed down this path. This is really good info. Are you and EE? You seem to know your stuff on the electrical side. I am an ME who works for a test and measurement company with hundreds of EE's and software engineers. I have picked up enough over the years to be dangerous. At one point I had a four channel scope hooked up to the J80 as I drove around, verifying waveforms in the stock configuration.
This would be a lot easier if Toyota had shifted a manual transmission J80 to the US. Then it would be as simple as an ECU swap and would still be OBDII compliant. @landtank had an idea about using a 1996 or 1997 Supra / SC300 manual transmission ECU for a normally aspirated 2JZ-GE 3.0 inline six. I have two of those ECU's and was going to try that route to see if I could keep OBDII functionality.
But, before that, I will look through what you have above and see if there is a way to trick the stock ECU into not throwing error codes for the stock transmission not being there. Worth a shot, and I have all of the resistors, etc, that I need in labstock here at work.
Thanks,
Mike
Hmmm, never knew that was out there. I have the 3.11: 1 low range gears in my transfer case, but never knew there was a taller high range option.What advantage/disadvantage might there be to installing a 10% OD gear into the transfer case with the current set-up?
Sumo Gear Land Cruiser Transfer Case 10% Overdrive Gear Set - Fits 8x Series Full Time 4wd Models
Low Range Gear Reduction Sets for Toyota Land Cruiser Applications
This would make all of the gear ratios in high range 10% taller, reducing torque to the rear axle by 10% in each gear, and reducing the RPM's in any given gear at any given speed by 10%. It might make the 4.7:1 first gear usable on the street, as it is too low and I start out in 2nd. It would also make the overdrives 10% taller, reducing freeway RPM by another 10%. Right now at 65, in 8th gear, I cruise at just over 2k RPM. With this gear in the transfer case, it would cruise in 8th gear at a little over 1800 RPM. On flat ground, it would probably save a bit of fuel, at the cost of torque to the ground and more downshifting to climb hills.
Had not thought of doing this. In 4 low, you get all of it back.
Interesting.
Thanks for posting this.
Mike
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