1FZ Pre-Build Questions (1 Viewer)

[jaymar]

Finally scored what seems a good running FZ with all the fixings, pulled for a transplant. Cost a little less than my Cruiser did in 2015 , but hoping its condition and low-ish miles (approx 170k) will slash rebuild/refresh costs . The engine is now on a pallet; I’ll get it on a stand, once I get a crane and a stand (it’s been decades and several moves since I did this kind of thing). I would prefer not to tear it completely apart, hot tank, machine etc., unless NOT doing so would just be dumb(?). I'm thinking that *if* things look good enough, I can do some preventive maintenance/replacement, drop it in as-is and turn the clock back 70k miles minimum. And then take my sweet time (and spread out the expense of) rebuilding the current engine (240k), Joey OCD-style.

QUESTION ONE:
What steps can I take to gauge the state of the ‘new’ engine (and accessories) and see if everything’s ready-to-go? What can I look at, measure, test, etc.? If I can do this without machine shop costs, great. Unless that's dumb. If that *is* dumb, what if anything should I have a machine shop look at instead? (If I can buy the tool for the cost of them measuring it, I'm inclined to buy the tool. Value of experienced eyes on the parts beyond that, though: priceless. Maybe photos on Mud will do for some things?)

QUESTION TWO:
Any downside to running the same pistons/rods/pins if the bore is in spec? Should rings be changed and bearings checked? Does replacing bearings mean machining the crank and significant additional costs? If this is the difference between 100k more miles and 200-300k before rebuild, fine. If not and things look good, I can just leave pistons/rods assembled and put the money elsewhere.

QUESTION THREE:
I'm assuming that if things look good and crosshatching visible, and PM/replacement done, the engine will make 300k or better even with untouched pistons/bearings. I'm also assuming that the head (if reused as-is, and in decent shape now) will become the weak point and require rebuild before the refreshed bottom end. Are these assumptions correct--and what's a good guess at the rebuild-required mileage for the head?

INTENDED USE: 90% DD, 10% overland; nothing extreme, no turbo, no crazy RPMs or serious crawling. S/C install (if/when I can swing that). Occasional towing. Maybe ~1200 lbs over stock sprung weight for DD; heavier when offroad.

Will post up list of intended PM/refresh parts/work for comment/additions.

Would like to do this...

But my budget is closer to this...

 

[SoCal80series]

I’m happy for you. While I can’t offer you any advise (other than bad), good luck with this build!

 

[jaymar]

I’m happy for you. While I can’t offer you any advise (other than bad), good luck with this build!

Thanks; long time coming. At least I know enough to ask the right questions by now. (Mostly.) Engine getting ready to ship, tranny to follow.

 

[thatcabledude]

I would just reseal it, drop it in, and rebuild the the truck’s original engine.

 

[jaymar]

I would just reseal it, drop it in, and rebuild the the truck’s original engine.

That would be cheapest. It's sealed now; I was thinking to remove head, see what I can see, install new gasket and hopefully put the head right back on if all seems well. And then set about PM/refresh on everything else while it's still easy to reach. Will post internal pics when head removed.

 

[ajax1]

My thought, no point in doing the head if you are not gonna do valves and valve seals. If you are gonna rebuild the other engine I would just run the new one if you believe it to be good. Or do head now put back on new engine, rebuild bottom end of the old engine if it needs it then transfer again. That seems like double work almost.

 

[manofthewoods]

Finally scored what seems a good running FZ with all the fixings, pulled for a transplant. Cost a little less than my Cruiser did in 2015 , but hoping its condition and low-ish miles (approx 170k) will slash rebuild/refresh costs . The engine is now on a pallet; I’ll get it on a stand, once I get a crane and a stand (it’s been decades and several moves since I did this kind of thing). I would prefer not to tear it completely apart, hot tank, machine etc., unless NOT doing so would just be dumb(?). I'm thinking that *if* things look good enough, I can do some preventive maintenance/replacement, drop it in as-is and turn the clock back 70k miles minimum. And then take my sweet time (and spread out the expense of) rebuilding the current engine (240k), Joey OCD-style.

QUESTION ONE:
What steps can I take to gauge the state of the ‘new’ engine (and accessories) and see if everything’s ready-to-go? What can I look at, measure, test, etc.? If I can do this without machine shop costs, great. Unless that's dumb. If that *is* dumb, what if anything should I have a machine shop look at instead? (If I can buy the tool for the cost of them measuring it, I'm inclined to buy the tool. Value of experienced eyes on the parts beyond that, though: priceless. Maybe photos on Mud will do for some things?)

QUESTION TWO:
Any downside to running the same pistons/rods/pins if the bore is in spec? Should rings be changed and bearings checked? Does replacing bearings mean machining the crank and significant additional costs? If this is the difference between 100k more miles and 200-300k before rebuild, fine. If not and things look good, I can just leave pistons/rods assembled and put the money elsewhere.

QUESTION THREE:
I'm assuming that if things look good and crosshatching visible, and PM/replacement done, the engine will make 300k or better even with untouched pistons/bearings. I'm also assuming that the head (if reused as-is, and in decent shape now) will become the weak point and require rebuild before the refreshed bottom end. Are these assumptions correct--and what's a good guess at the rebuild-required mileage for the head?

INTENDED USE: 90% DD, 10% overland; nothing extreme, no turbo, no crazy RPMs or serious crawling. S/C install (if/when I can swing that). Occasional towing. Maybe ~1200 lbs over stock sprung weight for DD; heavier when offroad.

Will post up list of intended PM/refresh parts/work for comment/additions.

Would like to do this...

View attachment 3189319

But my budget is closer to this...

View attachment 3189463

Lots of good options/opinions on this thread. A big if here, but if you have a trusted machinist. They could measure the pistons & cylinders. If the engine was taken care of the pistons might be IN spec and the cylinders would only need a light hone. New rings, of course.
Crankshaft should be great, just replace main and rod bearings. Of course, you'd have to have the head done.
Again, assuming the PO took care of it. You'd now have a solid new (pretty much) engine.
Keep us posted
Happy holidays

 

[geologic]

I have a 143k version sitting in my shop now for same. I’m in process on another build for my 40th as well. I took it to Memphis Moto Werks. They did a great job with the head and everything specked out great on the short block. I decide to bore 1mm over and put new Toyota pistons and rings in while I could still get them. I replaced all the bearings with new Toyota in the same sizes.

 

[jaymar]

Lots of good options/opinions on this thread. A big if here, but if you have a trusted machinist. They could measure the pistons & cylinders. If the engine was taken care of the pistons might be IN spec and the cylinders would only need a light hone. New rings, of course.
Crankshaft should be great, just replace main and rod bearings. Of course, you'd have to have the head done.
Again, assuming the PO took care of it. You'd now have a solid new (pretty much) engine.
Keep us posted
Happy holidays

Couple of great shops nearby (one recc'd by Joey, one by ICON). Have to update myself on costs; last time I checked, I was a kid, and Clinton was president. On the other hand, if I can get another strong 100-200k+ without costly machining or head building, that's mighty attractive. Merry Christmas. (Are we still allowed to say that?)

 

[jaymar]

I have a 143k version sitting in my shop now for same. I’m in process on another build for my 40th as well. I took it to Memphis Moto Werks. They did a great job with the head and everything specked out great on the short block. I decide to bore 1mm over and put new Toyota pistons and rings in while I could still get them. I replaced all the bearings with new Toyota in the same sizes.

Why rebuild so soon--or was this already out of the vehicle when you bought it?

 

[jaymar]

170K ENGINE REFRESH TO-DO LIST

Assuming inspection goes well, and given that I can access the engine from every angle—what preventive maintenance should I do before installing the engine? After a few years hanging out in this forum, and learning from those who've forgotten more that I'll ever know about these vehicles (and thank you all for sharing your hard-won know-how!), this is what I come up with off the top of my head re: things I SHOULD do. What am I missing?

Head gasket (which will let me look at the bores, pistons, and head internals)
Oil pan form-a-gasket
Tranny gasket
Front main seal
Add s/c pulley
Oil pump cover seal
Timing chain cover seal (I've read the guides can crack; can I check that with the cover off?)
Rear seal/s(?)
Fuel filter
Oil filter
remote or 90-degree oil filter adapter (per @terrx and @Kernal)
Oil pump
Water pump and thermostat
New fan(?)
New shroud
Blue hub fan clutch from @landtank (until s/c)
All belts and hoses including PHHs 1 & 2
Dizzy shaft o-ring, cap, rotor and 'dust' seal
Dizzy interior o-ring (I'm unclear on whether this is advisable, or even doable)
Plugs and wires
Coil(?)
Harmonic balancer (can that be changed out without weighing/balancing things?)
VC gasket and tube seals
Replace fluid reservoirs(?)
Sensors/smog crap (can anyone itemize?); I'm in (but not from!) California
MAF(?) and ribbed air intake thing from can to throttle body (what’s that called?)
Clean/coat manifolds and shields
Possible port matching (any point to that for standard RPMs? Can I do that with head assembled?)
Clean throttle body
Send injectors out
Throttle cable and sheathing
Clean/paint block and head (can I even do that at this stage?)
Clean/blast and paint/coat/plate every bracket etc.
MAYBE replace wiring harness (how much of a pain is that on the cab side? I’ve seen scary photos. If most of the hassle is on cab site, I can reuse current harness and do new later).
Thermal wrap harness where possible
I've read there’s a harness-retention loop on the back of the head, though I don't see one in the photo; cut away and drill stubs for zip ties?
Sequoia alternator (is that a good idea?)
S/C if/when affordable
Test/clean/refresh or rebuild/replace all accessories

I have not priced this out yet.

Make list of things to do in engine bay when engine comes out, starting with motor mounts and usually-unreachable firewall stuff

 

[mudgudgeon]

Have to update myself on costs; last time I checked, Clinton was president.

Ooof! Buckle up!!

 

[Njck22]

New Engine: Which Parts to Buy / Reuse?

Let's say you buy a new short block and head from Mr. T, because you want a million-mile oem engine. (And maybe because you're not going to beat the short block price with an oem-parts rebuild anyway). Ideally, you don't have to tear it down for another 300,000 miles. (Maybe it's your grandkid...

forum.ih8mud.com

Lots of good ideas here

 

[mudgudgeon]

170K ENGINE REFRESH TO-DO LIST

Assuming inspection goes well, and given that I can access the engine from every angle—what preventive maintenance should I do before installing the engine? After a few years hanging out in this forum, and learning from those who've forgotten more that I'll ever know about these vehicles (and thank you all for sharing your hard-won know-how!), this is what I come up with off the top of my head re: things I SHOULD do. What am I missing?

Head gasket (which will let me look at the bores, pistons, and head internals)
Oil pan form-a-gasket
Tranny gasket
Front main seal
Add s/c pulley
Oil pump cover seal
Timing chain cover seal (I've read the guides can crack; can I check that with the cover off?)
Rear seal/s(?)
Fuel filter
Oil filter
Oil pump
Water pump and thermostat
New fan(?)
New shroud
Blue hub fan clutch (until s/c)
All belts and hoses including PHHs 1 & 2
Dizzy shaft o-ring, cap, rotor and 'dust' thing
Dizzy interior o-ring (I'm unclear on whether this is advisable, or even doable)
Plugs and wires
Coil(?)
VC gasket and tube seals
Replace fluid reservoirs(?)
Sensors/smog crap (can anyone itemize?)
MAF(?) and ribbed air intake thing from can to throttle body (what’s that called?)
Clean/coat manifolds and shields
Possible port matching (any point to that for standard RPMs? Can I do that with head assembled?)
Clean throttle body
Send injectors out
Throttle cable and sheathing
Clean/paint block and head (can I even do that at this stage?)
Clean/blast and paint/coat/plate every bracket etc.
MAYBE replace wiring harness (how much of a pain is that on the cab side? I’ve seen scary photos. If most of the hassle is on cab site, I can reuse current harness and do new later).
Thermal wrap harness where possible
I've read there’s a harness-retention loop on the back of the head, though I don't see one in the photo; cut away and drill stubs for zip ties?
Sequoia alternator (is that a good idea?)
S/C if/when affordable
Test/clean/etc. all accessories

I have not priced this out yet.

Make list of things to do in engine bay when engine comes out, starting with motor mounts and usually-unreachable firewall stuff

That's the Mud CDO list ^^^


Is your intention to run this engine indefinitely, or temporarily and rebuild the original?

Temporary?
I'd just do an external inspection.

Does it have any obvious oil leaks?
Check the state of speak plugs
Drop oil and check for any nasties in it
New thermostat
New hoses
New plugs and wires, and dizzy cap and rotor
Replace rear main seal, coz you can't do it easily in the vehicle.

Run it and see how it is.
After it's running, do compression test. If good, sweet, if not, it pushes a rebuild on the OG forward.
Any other leaks, seals etc can be done in vehicle.

I inquired about cleaning injectors on mine with about 250k km and was told by more than one shop "Toyota? Don't bother unless you've been living somewhere you've had no option but running dirty fuel" Consensus was they rarely need cleaning

 

[jaymar]

That's the Mud CDO list ^^^


Is your intention to run this engine indefinitely, or temporarily and rebuild the original?

Temporary?
I'd just do an external inspection.

Does it have any obvious oil leaks?
Check the state of speak plugs
Drop oil and check for any nasties in it
New thermostat
New hoses
New plugs and wires, and dizzy cap and rotor
Replace rear main seal, coz you can't do it easily in the vehicle.

Run it and see how it is.
After it's running, do compression test. If good, sweet, if not, it pushes a rebuild on the OG forward.
Any other leaks, seals etc can be done in vehicle.

I inquired about cleaning injectors on mine with about 250k km and was told by more than one shop "Toyota? Don't bother unless you've been living somewhere you've had no option but running dirty fuel" Consensus was they rarely need cleaning

Ha, had to look up CDO. Thanks for the short-list!

Indefinitely or temporarily? Yes to both. No idea how long it will take me to do (by which I mean, afford) a full-on Joey/COYS/OCD-CDO rebuild, so that's likely to be a back-burner-slow-motion kinda thing. If rest of vehicle is any indication, original engine was not treated particularly well (and, truth be told, I could have treated it better myself), and will require the Whole Nine Yards.

Basically, I want to put this 'new' 170k engine in and not even think about it for another 100k miles-plus. During which time I can address the rest of the vehicle. If I can spend another [insert reasonable amount here] to not think about it for 250k-plus, that might be an option (depending on the reasonableness of the amount). Guess I should start pricing and prioritizing that OCD list...

 

[jaymar]

New Engine: Which Parts to Buy / Reuse?

Let's say you buy a new short block and head from Mr. T, because you want a million-mile oem engine. (And maybe because you're not going to beat the short block price with an oem-parts rebuild anyway). Ideally, you don't have to tear it down for another 300,000 miles. (Maybe it's your grandkid...

forum.ih8mud.com

Lots of good ideas here

Yup. Plan changed somewhat when I found this engine...

 

[Broski]

That's the Mud CDO list ^^^


Is your intention to run this engine indefinitely, or temporarily and rebuild the original?

Temporary?
I'd just do an external inspection.

Does it have any obvious oil leaks?
Check the state of speak plugs
Drop oil and check for any nasties in it
New thermostat
New hoses
New plugs and wires, and dizzy cap and rotor
Replace rear main seal, coz you can't do it easily in the vehicle.

Run it and see how it is.
After it's running, do compression test. If good, sweet, if not, it pushes a rebuild on the OG forward.
Any other leaks, seals etc can be done in vehicle.

I inquired about cleaning injectors on mine with about 250k km and was told by more than one shop "Toyota? Don't bother unless you've been living somewhere you've had no option but running dirty fuel" Consensus was they rarely need cleaning

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS don't over think it

 

[musthave]

It's out, take off the head, do the head, valves, seals, timing chain and slippers. Put it back together. Drive 200k and be happy. IMHO

 

[JoeCova]

"low mileage" is still high mileage all things considered and a lot of wear and tear on an engine. People love to say these go for 300k and there is a small minority that do, everyone else is rebuilding. Would be difficult to know the state of the engine without tearing it down.

 

[jaymar]

ENGINE SEALS & GASKETS

Seems I should replace every engine seal/gasket I can reach. Can anyone add to this, or point to a comprehensive list?

Engine Gasket Kit (1998-2006) - Thanks to @SNLC for that tip in another thread. Anyone have a list of kit contents? In photos I see head gasket, intake gasket, exhaust gaskets, valve cover gasket, and a bag with a bunch of unidentifiable items all mixed together. Need to know what's there to avoid duplication. "What's in the box?"

>>>04111-66061

-

Front Main Seal
90311-52022

Rear Main Seal
90311-99009

Oil Pump Cover O-Ring
15188-66020

Oil Level Sensor Gasket
90430-27001

Spark Plug Tube Seals (x6)
11193-15010

PCV Grommet - for new PCV Valve (12204-35040)
90480-18001

Distributor Cap Gasket
19127-66020

Distributor Shaft O-Ring
90099-14118

Throttle Body Gasket
22271-66010

Water Pump Gasket (comes with WP?)

Thermostat Housing Gasket (comes with T-Stat?)

Intake Valve Seals (12)
90913-02096

Exhaust Valve Seals (12)
90913-02105

FIPG 103 (x2?) - Oil Pan, Timing Chain Cover etc.
00295-00103

FIPG 121 (x2?) - Tranny
00295-01281

What about the Rear Pan Arch / Upper Pan -- seals/gaskets, or FIPG?