1FZ engine building and blueprinting

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Sorry folks, just so busy with other projects. Looking for a machinist who will listen to me and do it my way. Hard to find, they mostly want to refernce the deck to the pan rails, but that is not good enough. I want to reference everything from crank center line. Once I find the right guy block goes for surfacing on 4 sides and bore job.
also trying to decide on head work: the engine will be so much bigger I’m pretty sure I should use larger valves and some porting even though revs will stay below 5,500, it will still need more air.
any comments on valve size or porting, for this application?
also trying to figure out how to mate a ZF 8 speed automatic?
 
Keep in mind it is much easier to get the crank line bored in alignment to the deck or pan rails than it is to do it the other way around, at least in terms of machine setup. You're talking about a bear of a job to try and get a block lined up in the mill to be parallel with the crank centerline rather than just the pan rails, and it would involve a LOT of shimming of an entire engine block. You have to dial indicate each end for height off the table AND at least a few of the cylinders to ensure it is vertical and you haven't put any twist into the block, and every time you move something you gotta redo probably 5 indications, hopefully adjust it right with just tightening down clamps some more and NOT put twist into it, indicate more, and repeat until you're way past sick and tired of it.

Compare that to just cleaning the surfaces really well, decking it, putting it on the line bore on the new surface, getting it perpendicular, and then boring out each hole. It's another machine setup and 7 operations, but it would be a a standard procedure vs redoing the same 20 minutes of measuring a dozen times hoping for a different result.

For the ZF8 speed I was EXTREMELY interested in it for the 98%+ efficiency, and I had found some forums threads by a guy who successfully did it with an Arduino and an SBC in an old american muscle car, but I went to click on it and the links are dead. So that's sad.

From what I remember, he removed the stock computer (which was built into the transmission valvebody itself) and wired directly into the solenoids and used PWM for the pressure control. I forget what happened with the variable displacement pump, either he set it to full displacement all the time and used the pressure regulator solenoid to relieve excess pressure, or maybe he did 2 PWM channels to control both the displacement and the pressure.

You could probably get a cheaper 8HP45 to play with and then spend the money on an 8HP70 or higher for the 80 once you've figured out how to control it.

Here's a video one guy made but he doesn't really go into detail other listing the controller and saying it was a lot of trial and error tuning it.


Also, did you ever tempt the idea of a 105 series head just for fun? Available with the EGR passage left solid and it is equipped for the stock distributor. I was VERY tempted to do this but wasn't sure about intake manifold compatibility and wasn't ready to be a guinea pig.
You do need to have a machine shop check it over, as on mine some of the valve seats were out of concentricity by up to 1.5 thousandths. Many would say its fine but I assume you're with me in saying it has to be absolutely perfect to go for another 300k miles of service.
 
Last edited:
You are right about the machine wrk, but if we reference deck to rails, then how could we get the crank cl perfectly parallel and perpendicular to the deck?
as for the ZF, HTG tuning makes a standalone controller, however I can’t find much info or reviews.
would like a 105 head, do you know where I can get one?
 
We have been trying to find him a late 80/105 head without the distributor since he is going to run coil on plugs. Amayama was no help. They list a FZ105 but don’t show a head available for it. And trying to use the Australian OEM Toyota Parts pages is painful!

Do you know how to get a Gen II, 1FZFE head? I haven’t started picking up the phone and calling people but that would probably have to be my next step.

Keep in mind it is much easier to get the crank line bored in alignment to the deck or pan rails than it is to do it the other way around, at least in terms of machine setup. You're talking about a bear of a job to try and get a block lined up in the mill to be parallel with the crank centerline rather than just the pan rails, and it would involve a LOT of shimming of an entire engine block. You have to dial indicate each end for height off the table AND at least a few of the cylinders to ensure it is vertical and you haven't put any twist into the block, and every time you move something you gotta redo probably 5 indications, hopefully adjust it right with just tightening down clamps some more and NOT put twist into it, indicate more, and repeat until you're way past sick and tired of it.

Compare that to just cleaning the surfaces really well, decking it, putting it on the line bore on the new surface, getting it perpendicular, and then boring out each hole. It's another machine setup and 7 operations, but it would be a a standard procedure vs redoing the same 20 minutes of measuring a dozen times hoping for a different result.

For the ZF8 speed I was EXTREMELY interested in it for the 98%+ efficiency, and I had found some forums threads by a guy who successfully did it with an Arduino and an SBC in an old american muscle car, but I went to click on it and the links are dead. So that's sad.

From what I remember, he removed the stock computer (which was built into the transmission valvebody itself) and wired directly into the solenoids and used PWM for the pressure control. I forget what happened with the variable displacement pump, either he set it to full displacement all the time and used the pressure regulator solenoid to relieve excess pressure, or maybe he did 2 PWM channels to control both the displacement and the pressure.

You could probably get a cheaper 8HP45 to play with and then spend the money on an 8HP70 or higher for the 80 once you've figured out how to control it.

Here's a video one guy made but he doesn't really go into detail other listing the controller and saying it was a lot of trial and error tuning it.


Also, did you ever tempt the idea of a 105 series head just for fun? Available with the EGR passage left solid and it is equipped for the stock distributor. I was VERY tempted to do this but wasn't sure about intake manifold compatibility and wasn't ready to be a guinea pig.
You do need to have a machine shop check it over, as on mine some of the valve seats were out of concentricity by up to 1.5 thousandths. Many would say its fine but I assume you're with me in saying it has to be absolutely perfect to go for another 300k miles of service.
 
I have not worked on this search myself, doesn’t matter if it takes a distributor, I could block off.
don’t work too hard for me as I don’t need yet, but if anyone has, or finds, a good one, I will buy.
has no one ever tried one on an 80 block? What issues would there be. I assume if no distributor mount some kind of crank trigger would have to be fabbed or is there a stock solution?
headers and intake an issue? Anything else?
 
Trying to research the physical size of ZF 8 speeds, can’t find anything but weight. Also looking for a list of cars that run them so i can start calling wrecking yards. I have a bit of a list but far from complete.
it will probably be huge expense to adapt to FZ and some type of transfer case, but I think this will be the single biggest gain for my build up
 
Here's a very thorough list of applications and differences in the through the years:
ZF 8HP transmission - Wikipedia
and
ZF 8HP transmission | Wikiwand

Also, on the ZF website:
"Although the 8HP features 2 more speeds than the extremely successful 6HP, the dimensions have remained unchanged and the weight was even reduced by 3% to 87 kg (transmission modular system 8HP70) including oil"
So I guess they wanted a drop-in replacement for vehicles using a 6 speed with no mechanical redesign necessary. A cheaper 6hpXX core from a 2000s car could probably be had for $100 or less and used for mockup. These had a lot of issues due to the filled-for-life "feature", and are nowhere near as efficient as the 8hp.
ZF 6HP transmission - Wikipedia

Some interesting stuff off the brochure:
https://www.zf.com/products/media/en/product_media/cars_5/zf_pkw_getriebebroschuere2017_de_web.pdf
shift table:
1603144701088.png


Bump starting an automatic vehicle?:
"By integrating an electric oil pump, the 8HP now has an extended start-stop and coasting function."

The chinese 105 heads are what I linked at the bottom of my post. It just shows the link as "aliexpress.com", but that's a search link which came up with 5 or 6 heads. I have over 10,000 miles on mine and drive the piss out of it. I got my Gen 1 head from an import company in southern California for $400, the ones on aliexpress were about $600 to your door (at least in the US and before import fees). A domestic import company is definitely the way to go as you can got some semblance of a warranty/customer service if something does go wrong.

The well respected machine shop I used for my head said they've installed these heads in many industrial engines after doing proper machining work to them and had very good results. However, not all people have been so lucky: Cracked Head 1FZFE
According to that thread the 1FZ is used in heavy equipment such as forklifts, and that's why there's a lot of Chinese reproductions of them.
 
We have been trying to find him a late 80/105 head without the distributor since he is going to run coil on plugs. Amayama was no help. They list a FZ105 but don’t show a head available for it. And trying to use the Australian OEM Toyota Parts pages is painful!

Do you know how to get a Gen II, 1FZFE head? I haven’t started picking up the phone and calling people but that would probably have to be my next step.

What’s the part number? 11101-69155?

Cheers
 
And I just priced it out as well as got all the part numbers together the other day.

You can fully build a coil pack 1FZFE out of all new parts.

These are not hard to get parts if you know where to look or who to work with. They are not cheap though.

Cheers
 
Here's a very thorough list of applications and differences in the through the years:
ZF 8HP transmission - Wikipedia
and
ZF 8HP transmission | Wikiwand

Also, on the ZF website:
"Although the 8HP features 2 more speeds than the extremely successful 6HP, the dimensions have remained unchanged and the weight was even reduced by 3% to 87 kg (transmission modular system 8HP70) including oil"
So I guess they wanted a drop-in replacement for vehicles using a 6 speed with no mechanical redesign necessary. A cheaper 6hpXX core from a 2000s car could probably be had for $100 or less and used for mockup. These had a lot of issues due to the filled-for-life "feature", and are nowhere near as efficient as the 8hp.
ZF 6HP transmission - Wikipedia

Some interesting stuff off the brochure:
https://www.zf.com/products/media/en/product_media/cars_5/zf_pkw_getriebebroschuere2017_de_web.pdf
shift table:
View attachment 2470116

Bump starting an automatic vehicle?:
"By integrating an electric oil pump, the 8HP now has an extended start-stop and coasting function."

The chinese 105 heads are what I linked at the bottom of my post. It just shows the link as "aliexpress.com", but that's a search link which came up with 5 or 6 heads. I have over 10,000 miles on mine and drive the piss out of it. I got my Gen 1 head from an import company in southern California for $400, the ones on aliexpress were about $600 to your door (at least in the US and before import fees). A domestic import company is definitely the way to go as you can got some semblance of a warranty/customer service if something does go wrong.

The well respected machine shop I used for my head said they've installed these heads in many industrial engines after doing proper machining work to them and had very good results. However, not all people have been so lucky: Cracked Head 1FZFE
According to that thread the 1FZ is used in heavy equipment such as forklifts, and that's why there's a lot of Chinese reproductions of them.
Thanks so much for this, especially the idea of a cheap 6hp for mock up
 
And I just priced it out as well as got all the part numbers together the other day.

You can fully build a coil pack 1FZFE out of all new parts.
T
These are not hard to get parts if you know where to look or who to work with. They are not cheap though.

Cheers
So I would like to purchace just the bare head. If not reasonable probably just stick with 80 S as it will be heavily modified anyways.
thanks
 
So youtube recommended me an old video of the guy who did the 8hp70 conversion on his Chevelle, and searching his YouTube name in google I found the original forum thread!

Some good news if you feel spendy: It seems there is a $1000 aftermarket computer that uses the original rotary shifter from an 8hp equipped vehicle, TPS and RPM info from the engine, that plugs into the original internal computer without ripping it apart and wiring directly to the solenoids. (for nice civilized shifting I would assume, using the original shift maps).


My friend's biggest complaint about his 8hp70 equipped Ram 1500 is that if you use the paddles to shift up or down a gear manually, you are then stuck in manual mode until you restart the vehicle. I assume this setup would retain that flaw since it is just feeding information to the stock tcm.

Also, apparently you would need software like HPtuners to change the shift points etc, because that's done in the trans computer, not at the shifter, ecm or this new computer.

I'm also not sure if it would allow for ignition retard during shifts to reduce wear. (IMO this is an important feature for longevity)

 
Thanks for that. I have been following a FB page that deals with these mods. Seems totally doable. Physical size may be the issue. I don’t mind changing the metalwork, so I thinks it’s a go. But maybe there are even better 8 speed choices.
a bit far in the future yet.
 
We have been trying to find him a late 80/105 head without the distributor since he is going to run coil on plugs. Amayama was no help. They list a FZ105 but don’t show a head available for it. And trying to use the Australian OEM Toyota Parts pages is painful!

Do you know how to get a Gen II, 1FZFE head? I haven’t started picking up the phone and calling people but that would probably have to be my next step.
Look into the carburetor 1fz head, when I pulled mine ( and like an idiot, forgot to take pics so cant reference back) the chambers looked like your gen2. This was to lower CR for bad fuel I suspect.
And has a dizzy hole. Just block off hole for mech fuel pump.
 
And I just priced it out as well as got all the part numbers together the other day.

You can fully build a coil pack 1FZFE out of all new parts.

These are not hard to get parts if you know where to look or who to work with. They are not cheap though.

Cheers
Can you tell me where to get a 105 head and intake manifold, or at least viable part numbers?
thanks
 
Can you tell me where to get a 105 head and intake manifold, or at least viable part numbers?
thanks
Did you look above in the "Resources" tab for a FSM on what you seek?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom