What are you thoughts on changing transmission fluid?

[bicycleagent003]

Valvoline MaxLife ATF has worked great for me on 3 Toyotas and a Honda. I would just do several drain and fills over time to gently transition to a newer, clean fluid. This method has worked very well for me.

 

[Charlielj]

Valvoline MaxLife ATF has worked great for me on 3 Toyotas and a Honda. I would just do several drain and fills over time to gently transition to a newer, clean fluid. This method has worked very well for me.

Currently that's my plan. It's more time consuming but with the high milage, I'm going to bit more conservative.

 

[ryanCA]

Subscribed to this thread, with 270K miles on mine.

 

[ryanCA]

I would do a full exchange at 175k, but if you have a shop do it I'd be sure they are not using the machine to flush.

What would be the correct terminology to tell the shop, if you want full new trans fluid?

 

[bloc]

What would be the correct terminology to tell the shop, if you want full new trans fluid?

There are three broadly defined categories, and a lot of confusion.

Drain/fill generally means just drain the pan and refill. Usually only about one third of the total fluid volume.

Fluid exchange generally means what some people call a flush, but it means using the procedures outlined on this board to push the old fluid out and refill to replace it. Done correctly you’ll get most of the fluid this way. This is often done at shops with a machine that uses the old fluid coming out of the transmission to push the new stuff in via a bladder, but the point is the transmission is usually the “pump”.

A “flush” generally means using an external machine to force fluid and often solvent through the transmission and valve body to try and clean things out. This process is what you want to avoid, whatever it might be called.

 

[ryanCA]

There are three broadly defined categories, and a lot of confusion.

Drain/fill generally means just drain the pan and refill. Usually only about one third of the total fluid volume.

Fluid exchange generally means what some people call a flush, but it means using the procedures outlined on this board to push the old fluid out and refill to replace it. Done correctly you’ll get most of the fluid this way. This is often done at shops with a machine that uses the old fluid coming out of the transmission to push the new stuff in via a bladder, but the point is the transmission is usually the “pump”.

A “flush” generally means using an external machine to force fluid and often solvent through the transmission and valve body to try and clean things out. This process is what you want to avoid, whatever it might be called.

Thank you kindly for the explanation. So for my use case, I am looking for the second one you mentioned, "fluid exchange."

Curious what do Toyota dealers do on these "sealed" transmissions?

 

[bloc]

Thank you kindly for the explanation. So for my use case, I am looking for the second one you mentioned, "fluid exchange."

Curious what do Toyota dealers do on these "sealed" transmissions?

They mostly do nothing. But if you ask for one of the above jobs specifically they will usually take the work.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

There are three broadly defined categories, and a lot of confusion.

Drain/fill generally means just drain the pan and refill. Usually only about one third of the total fluid volume.

Fluid exchange generally means what some people call a flush, but it means using the procedures outlined on this board to push the old fluid out and refill to replace it. Done correctly you’ll get most of the fluid this way. This is often done at shops with a machine that uses the old fluid coming out of the transmission to push the new stuff in via a bladder, but the point is the transmission is usually the “pump”.

A “flush” generally means using an external machine to force fluid and often solvent through the transmission and valve body to try and clean things out. This process is what you want to avoid, whatever it might be called.

Appreciate you posting this information for the OP. Flush is a terrible word to be tossing around in these conversations and I'm afraid most use it indiscriminately. I have had the transmission fluid on my 80 "exchanged" twice without issue. BG is one brand of fluid exchange machine but there are others. Drain and Fill is better than nothing but exchanging all (or most) is far superior and definitely more cost effective if your goal is to have new fluid. Pretty sure it cost me no more than $100 to have it done with me supplying the materials. Don't get sold into any kind of additives; just use whatever fluid you settle on and make sure that you have enough plus at least a quart or two in reserve. You'll waste at least $100 and countless hours doing flush and fills and never get to the same quality of fluid. Also you have to deal with the mess and disposal. There is zero risk using this method or at least no more risk than a drain and fill so conservatism really doesn't come into the equation.

 

[Charlielj]

Appreciate you posting this information for the OP. Flush is a terrible word to be tossing around in these conversations and I'm afraid most use it indiscriminately. I have had the transmission fluid on my 80 "exchanged" twice without issue. BG is one brand of fluid exchange machine but there are others. Drain and Fill is better than nothing but exchanging all (or most) is far superior and definitely more cost effective if your goal is to have new fluid. Pretty sure it cost me no more than $100 to have it done with me supplying the materials. Don't get sold into any kind of additives; just use whatever fluid you settle on and make sure that you have enough plus at least a quart or two in reserve. You'll waste at least $100 and countless hours doing flush and fills and never get to the same quality of fluid. Also you have to deal with the mess and disposal. There is zero risk using this method or at least no more risk than a drain and fill so conservatism really doesn't come into the equation.

Thank you so much contributing to my question...I feel a lot better now that I learned a bit more about the various process.

 

[LanceL]

Trans fluid has a lifespan and wears out, especially if you offroad or tow (and especially on a big heavy beast like a 200), there's no if's and's or but's about that. Anyone who says otherwise is well......wrong. There is an excellent thread on here for DIY'ing a full fluid exchange (all 12 quarts) and replacing the screen, I followed his video exactly with Amsoil Signature Series (blue) and it worked perfectly for me. Fluid and the screen are cheap, transmissions are not. It's an easy and smart preventative procedure every 60K miles or so. To those who are like "well I've never done it and I haven't had a problem" lucky you, perhaps you're on borrowed time. I'd rather keep up with proper maintenance.

Complete Transmission Flush DIY - VIDEO

I finally pulled together the video I took while completing a complete transmission fluid flush. Most of you know the dealer's service typically consists of draining and refilling the pan only. This only introduces 3-4 clean quarts of fluid in the system. I went through 14 quarts of fluid...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[ryanCA]

Trans fluid has a lifespan and wears out, especially if you offroad or tow (and especially on a big heavy beast like a 200), there's no if's and's or but's about that. Anyone who says otherwise is well......wrong. There is an excellent thread on here for DIY'ing a full fluid exchange (all 12 quarts) and replacing the screen, I followed his video exactly with Amsoil Signature Series (blue) and it worked perfectly for me. Fluid and the screen are cheap, transmissions are not. It's an easy and smart preventative procedure every 60K miles or so. To those who are like "well I've never done it and I haven't had a problem" lucky you, perhaps you're on borrowed time. I'd rather keep up with proper maintenance.

Complete Transmission Flush DIY - VIDEO

I finally pulled together the video I took while completing a complete transmission fluid flush. Most of you know the dealer's service typically consists of draining and refilling the pan only. This only introduces 3-4 clean quarts of fluid in the system. I went through 14 quarts of fluid...

forum.ih8mud.com

Thank you Lance

 

[bentonrover]

I bought my 08 LC with 199k miles 3 years ago. Full dealer service except for trans service. Didn't hesitate to drain and fill. Not only once but 2 more times about 10k apart. I have 231k now and honestly feels no different then the day I picked it up. I won't do it again till 300k or so. Roll the dice. These rigs always come out on top. Good luck

 

[bloc]

Trans fluid has a lifespan and wears out, especially if you offroad or tow (and especially on a big heavy beast like a 200), there's no if's and's or but's about that. Anyone who says otherwise is well......wrong. There is an excellent thread on here for DIY'ing a full fluid exchange (all 12 quarts) and replacing the screen, I followed his video exactly with Amsoil Signature Series (blue) and it worked perfectly for me. Fluid and the screen are cheap, transmissions are not. It's an easy and smart preventative procedure every 60K miles or so. To those who are like "well I've never done it and I haven't had a problem" lucky you, perhaps you're on borrowed time. I'd rather keep up with proper maintenance.

Complete Transmission Flush DIY - VIDEO

I finally pulled together the video I took while completing a complete transmission fluid flush. Most of you know the dealer's service typically consists of draining and refilling the pan only. This only introduces 3-4 clean quarts of fluid in the system. I went through 14 quarts of fluid...

forum.ih8mud.com

I agree with most of this, but there is one often-overlooked issue with maintenance that isn't 100% necessary. By going in there more often than needed, you introduce the risk of doing something wrong and causing bigger issues.

I 100% agree that the fluid needs changed more often than "lifetime", but all the evidence seems to point to nothing substantial actually being caught by the filter. Personally where I settled on this was drop the pan and clean the magnets around 100k when I got the truck, as I imagine they would have caught some of the swarf from manufacturing a new transmission as well as break-in, but after that my plan is to just do regular fluid exchanges leaving the pan in-place. Barring some super-deep water incident, or diagnosing another issue, of course.

End of the day it's up to each owner to decide where they are comfortable being on that spectrum. But to tell the whole story, there is some amount of risk in changing parts that don't really need it.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

I thought the conventional wisdom on these transmissions was to only ever do a drain and fill, never ever flush. Somewhere along the line I'm sure I picked that up as universally understood... on this forum. I apparently didn't bother to learn why because there didn't seem do be any disagreement on the topic. This is the first thread where I have seen anyone offer a different perspective.

 

[04UZJ100]

I thought the conventional wisdom on these transmissions was to only ever do a drain and fill, never ever flush. Somewhere along the line I'm sure I picked that up as universally understood... on this forum. I apparently didn't bother to learn why because there didn't seem do be any disagreement on the topic. This is the first thread where I have seen anyone offer a different perspective.

? Huh. Complete fluid exchanges are a very real thing here. I do it every 75k miles.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

? Huh. Complete fluid exchanges are a very real thing here. I do it every 75k miles.

The word 'flush' I believe is the difference here. Introducing anything other than ATF for the purposes of flushing or cleaning is what I'm referring to. Everything I have read here says drain and fill is fine so long as you can get the temps right for the process, but no cleaning or flushing. A fluid exchange is not a flush.

 

[LanceL]

I agree with most of this, but there is one often-overlooked issue with maintenance that isn't 100% necessary. By going in there more often than needed, you introduce the risk of doing something wrong and causing bigger issues.

I 100% agree that the fluid needs changed more often than "lifetime", but all the evidence seems to point to nothing substantial actually being caught by the filter. Personally where I settled on this was drop the pan and clean the magnets around 100k when I got the truck, as I imagine they would have caught some of the swarf from manufacturing a new transmission as well as break-in, but after that my plan is to just do regular fluid exchanges leaving the pan in-place. Barring some super-deep water incident, or diagnosing another issue, of course.

End of the day it's up to each owner to decide where they are comfortable being on that spectrum. But to tell the whole story, there is some amount of risk in changing parts that don't really need it.

Definitely understand the point of view of unnecessary maintenance (I probably do more than is necessary, but it quells my over-developed sense of mechanical sympathy and lets me sleep at night), and it's true that the further one goes inside a complex system the more one invites the potential for new problems. With regular (every ~60K-ish) fluid exchanges, one can likely forgo dropping the pan and changing the strainer for quite a while, particulaly if one has owned a car since new and knows how it was used/treated. Regardless, I strongly stand by regular exchanging of all engine/drivetrain fluids, it's a small cost for peace of mind, and seeing the condition (when torn down) of super high mileage components that were religiously maintained is excellent empirical justification for it!

 

[bloc]

Regardless, I strongly stand by regular exchanging of all engine/drivetrain fluids, it's a small cost for peace of mind, and seeing the condition (when torn down) of super high mileage components that were religiously maintained is excellent empirical justification for it!

Totally agree. I did some work on a TDI VW with over 300k on the clock and due to religious oil changes from new with a high quality oil, it was hard to tell it wasn't new inside.

 

[501LX]

Crown in Holland.

What did they charge you? My LX570 is up there right now for service and that's one of the things they quoted.

 

[Charlielj]

The part number for a quart of Toyota World Service transmission fluid is 0289-ATFWS. The part number you listed is not the correct fluid. You can get the number of quarts needed for each drain and refill cycle for your '14 by reading up on the transmission fluid exchange threads, which you will definitely want to do anyway. This is not something you want to mess up on, since getting the fluid level right is very important and you have to have a clean work area/tools to avoid contaminating the fluid.

I have two types of Toyota ATF WS. Which one should I be using? It seems that the one on the left is a newer version of the one that's on the right.