PabloCruise
SILVER Star
K, that is the opposite direction from where, Tony, Bob and Pighead are guiding you.
You have to tend to the basic fundamentals first.
There is no going around…
Builds We will name him Brutus. (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter BoomerUZ
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You have to tend to the basic fundamentals first.
There is no going around…
- Thread starter
- #282
I ran a new wire from the body of the distributor to the battery negative directly. I also pulled the vacuum advance and cleaned up the braided ground wire inside the distributor as well and the ground plate in there to no avail. Ive cleaned all the connections for the points to make sure there is no junk buildup, and even did a quick little swipe with scotch brite to the grounds. The engine ground goes from the battery, directly to the block at the passenger side motor mount. Then the wing nut post on the terminal now has a 10ga wire from that to the screw on the side of the distributor that holds the caps locating tab and clasp.
Points have been filed and adjusted. Cap, rotor, wires, plugs all been verified to be good. Timing has been adjusted and idles better than it did before. There is no ballast resistor external to the coil, so that will be replaced and see if that makes the difference. Idle is still just okay. Theres a definite miss when idling. But when trying to rev it breaks up really bad.
fuel tank is new. Fuel pump is new. fuel filter is new. Regulator is set to 3.5lbs. float bowl stays full (visually from the eye glass that is). When I actuate the throttle I can see the spray into the venturis.
So that leaves me with adjusting the valves. removing the vacuum advance. and replacing the coil from the repairs I have been recommended. I now have a full set of feelers I bought to do the points adjustment, so I can use that on the valves.
Adjust your valves, then check compression.
Good. It's getting better.
I'm still wondering why you need a ground wire to the dizzy body. That shouldn't be necessary and seems sorta band-aidish. IIRC, you couldn't remove the dizzy hold-down bolt without the engine dying. Now that you have better grounds, can you run it without the hold-down bolt? How about without the extra ground wire? Did you remove and clean that motor mount bolt and connector? If you have a voltmeter, check various parts of the block (and carb) to make sure it's getting 12v. of ground. Without the extra ground wire. Other parts of the engine require that good ground and it would be a good, cheap, easy fix.
What is your timing set at now?
- Thread starter
- #285
well its the bolt that holds the distributor from spinning that it would die out from. So when trying to adjust the distributor timing it would die as soon as the wing nut was loosened.
So what I tried today. I put a coil in, the one I had was supposed to have a resistor and didnt. So I put an internally regulated one. No change.
I removed the vacuum advance and still no change.
the cylinders are trying to fire, we have compression. we have spark. I am back to accusing the carb. But we still dont have a solid consistent spark either. its there, just sporratic
So what I tried today. I put a coil in, the one I had was supposed to have a resistor and didnt. So I put an internally regulated one. No change.
I removed the vacuum advance and still no change.
the cylinders are trying to fire, we have compression. we have spark. I am back to accusing the carb. But we still dont have a solid consistent spark either. its there, just sporratic
RUSH55
SILVER Star
So I’m going back through to around page 10 where you say #2 was getting no spark, and later #3 spark plug blew apart and rattled around in the cylinder for a spell. One of the push-rods for #3 needed adjustment?
Was this adjusted according to proper procedure? with the #3 cylinder at TDC?
I’m now wondering about the condition of those valves. If there was any damage to a valve or seat that would cause compression to escape - but you said you did a compression test and everything was good?
I’ll second running the rack including checking the lift of the cam lobes.
Was this adjusted according to proper procedure? with the #3 cylinder at TDC?
I’m now wondering about the condition of those valves. If there was any damage to a valve or seat that would cause compression to escape - but you said you did a compression test and everything was good?
I’ll second running the rack including checking the lift of the cam lobes.
- Thread starter
- #287
comp test did come up good. The spark missing on #2 was my aftermarket cap not working good. 3 was the bad plug, the one pushrod was adjusted correctly from some stuff I found online. Then the spark on that one is great now.
The issue is 4 now is not consistent and will miss several rotations and then spark HARD (usually I can take a shock pretty well but it put me into the hood), so in my head my assumption was capacitor did not discharge properly then when it did it was over charged.
Now at the point im at, I am unhappy with how its starting, wont idle, I have to load the carb to get it to fire but then runs poor. When running if I remove plug wire 4, and put the screwdriver in the tip I can see the sparks its not doing based on the sound and then it will arc.
Leaves me back where I start but with more new parts lol
bobm
WTF, WTF, WTF!!!!
Whats the inside top of the cap look like? And take pics it makes it easier for all of us to help.
Electricity is still a mystery to me, but I'm pretty sure that the capacitater doesn't save up a charge for a full revolution of the rotor, seems like there'd be 4 or 5 sparks before getting back to #4. Maybe what you have is a bad plug wire, maybe with bad insulation (I think insulation is a myth too). Maybe try swapping sparkplug wires between two cylinders to see if it's the plug wire or something else. I also clean the contacts inside the dizzy cap with a little wire wheel on a Dremel.
Question remains: what is your timing set to now?
RUSH55
SILVER Star
This is suspicious to me as well. Never heard of the distributor “skipping” a fire unless there’s carbon buildup on the contact on the inside of the cap. If the cap is new, there shouldn’t be any buildup. Same with the rotor.
Unless there’s something faulty with the cap?
Or slop in the distributor shaft that’s causing it to be too far away for the arc to take place.
Maybe grab ahold of the rotor and see if there’s any excessive play in the shaft. Not a common occurrence that I’ve ever seen, but if the bearings are toast, it could happen.
Good point, I had not thought of that.
bobm
WTF, WTF, WTF!!!!
Here!!!!
Your cousin from Boston
Your cousin from Boston
- Thread starter
- #293
Timing is set back to where the dot is TDC which IIRC is 7 degrees.
New cap was no good, old cap is back on, no signs of burnt contacts or traces. I have tried swapping the plug wires with the old set, different cylinders, everything.
I think currently my high probability is the coil with no resistor has smoked the points. I can try that next but I do not have high hopes.
Also only movement im getting on the distributor shaft is I can spin it (the vacuum advance) but its tight on the bearings
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Now I recall, we were going to try advancing your timing when we discovered it would not run without the hold-down clamp bolted tight. Which I think you still need to address if it still won't run without the clamp and the extra new ground wire after you've cleaned the grounds.
Anyway, forget about the 7* BTDC that the book says. These engines like a little more advance. Sometimes a lot more. For many years I used the old-fashioned timing light that just blinked, no digital nuthin'. When using that light, the BB (let's call the dot the BB) would disappear out of the window at about 17* BTDC. But I have a vacuum gauge. I would advance my timing until I got my highest vacuum reading, then I would back it off (retard) just a hair or two and go drive it. If it "pinged" (sound of pre-detonation) I would retard it another hair. Then one day I got a fancy new timing light, found out that I had been running at 22* BTDC.
today I'm running 30* BTDC no problem.
So, with your engine running, and the dizzy clamp just loose enough so you can rotate the dizzy body with one hand and maybe a timing light in your other hand, and maybe a tachometer you rotate the dizzy body just a little and watch the BB and the RPM. I'm pretty sure that if you rotate the body in a counter-clockwise direction you will be advancing the timing. Your idle RPM might pick up when you do this, if it gets too high, walk around to the carb and turn out the idle speed screw. Then go back and advance the timing some more, just in little bits. That's how I do it, a little timing adjustment, a little carb adjustment. Back & forth. See how much advance your engine likes and if it improves the idle and drivability any.
- Thread starter
- #295
I dont know if this is fixed since now it wont start at all. new coil did nothing. waiting for the pertronix kit to show up at this point. Then if that doesnt work im going full EFI. I really dont have the facilities to chase ghosts for long periods of time with this now that its at my work. I get off work, and I work on it a little before they start closing up, then I go home. The longer it sits there, the more likely I am to get in trouble.
Unfortunately EFI isn't necessarily going to fix your spark situation.
Efi is electronic fuel injection.
Electronic ignition might not even fix your spark if your fundamentals aren't correct...
Efi is electronic fuel injection.
Electronic ignition might not even fix your spark if your fundamentals aren't correct...
bobm
WTF, WTF, WTF!!!!
EXACTLY
But, EFI is expensive and looks really neat and all the cool kids are doing it and there's a toll-free tech help line (who might ask, "So, how was it running before you installed our EFI?" and you're gonna say something like "Um, I couldn't even get it to start and run") and trying to figure out why it won't run now is such a drag.
You're already getting free tech support.
The people who manufacture efi aren't going to spend their time figuring out your ignition problem.
They're going to say "oh you have an ignition problem, look there, thanks for buying our product, goodbye"
And you'll have added more variables to the situation without having ruled things out.
Deductive reasoning will get you there.
Inductive reasoning will get you lost deep in the woods, possibly put you in the poor house.
Inductive reasoning:
"Putting fuel injection on a car with ignition problems will fix the ignition problems."
It doesn't work that way, never has.
The people who manufacture efi aren't going to spend their time figuring out your ignition problem.
They're going to say "oh you have an ignition problem, look there, thanks for buying our product, goodbye"
And you'll have added more variables to the situation without having ruled things out.
Deductive reasoning will get you there.
Inductive reasoning will get you lost deep in the woods, possibly put you in the poor house.
Inductive reasoning:
"Putting fuel injection on a car with ignition problems will fix the ignition problems."
It doesn't work that way, never has.
- Thread starter
- #300
but we verified timing. and compression. and fuel pressure to the carb. and valve lash. and distributor grounding. and coil. I have fuel to the cylinders. spark is inconsistent. The efi has a whole new distributor so if the issue is in the distributor, it will go away. The fundamentals being air, fuel, compression, spark. I have air, I have compression, I have fuel, spark isnt doing good. The EFI kit gives me all new reliable spark and fuel.
If they made a megasquirt/microsquirt for this engine I could easily have that tell me exactly what the issue is but unfortunately I dont have that option. I have tried all the things suggested and its still in the exact same condition it was prior but with new parts on it. Still doesnt run. I am doing everything suggested, as well as trying other things. Ive pulled timing, ive added timing - no luck. Ive loaded the carb, just floods and chugs turning over but wont actually fire and stop relying on the starter spinning. tightened plug gap, nothing. tried putting all the old cap/rotor/wires back on and no luck. I am not disregarding the advise by any means but im also just spinning my wheels in place.
