Sounds like great advice guys, I'll have a crack at the M2 for starters.
The Official 1HD-T/FT Fuel Pump Mod Tuning Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter ForealBoreal
- Start date
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I made this one today (photo before a final touch up to the edge) Deepest point is 6.8mm
I'm hoping (after a bit of pin position tweaking) that this will give me full fuel. My ramp may be a bit severe. If it's smokey, I'll back the curve off and reposition the pin. I think my setup will get me around 20psi. We'll know in a few days
I'm pretty confident I have everything else covered as well as I can make it. I know this is a crude attempt, but it's so much fun doing it myself. I have fitted one of these http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16235&cat=262&page=1 and I have ordered one of these http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16335&cat=0&page=1 as well so I can integrate the AFR and boost on the software. Then we'll be able to see what's going on and where.
I'm hoping (after a bit of pin position tweaking) that this will give me full fuel. My ramp may be a bit severe. If it's smokey, I'll back the curve off and reposition the pin. I think my setup will get me around 20psi. We'll know in a few days
I'm pretty confident I have everything else covered as well as I can make it. I know this is a crude attempt, but it's so much fun doing it myself. I have fitted one of these http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16235&cat=262&page=1 and I have ordered one of these http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16335&cat=0&page=1 as well so I can integrate the AFR and boost on the software. Then we'll be able to see what's going on and where.
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FJRanger
SILVER Star
I made this one today (photo before a final touch up to the edge) Deepest point is 6.8mm
View attachment 898584
I'm hoping (after a bit of pin position tweaking) that this will give me full fuel. My ramp may be a bit severe. If it's smokey, I'll back the curve off and reposition the pin. I think my setup will get me around 20psi. We'll know in a few days
I'm pretty confident I have everything else covered as well as I can make it. I know this is a crude attempt, but it's so much fun doing it myself. I have fitted one of these http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16235&cat=262&page=1 and I have ordered one of these http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16335&cat=0&page=1 as well so I can integrate the AFR and boost on the software. Then we'll be able to see what's going on and where.
There do you plan on installing the AFR sensor in the exhaust system?
Last week
Aaah that famous Big Boy sarcasm lol
The way I figure it, the pin that was in there originally had a max of 3mm to the flat. I thought that 6.8mm was max throw for the follower pin. I realise that my 10mm plunger is the limiting factor of volume delivery (thanks Biggie for prev) but if I was only pushing it out 3mm (follower) previously surely that would mean I would now be able to deliver the max that my pump is capable of. As opposed to way under fuelling like I think I was before.
I know we still have to take in to account the max fuel screw position.
Is all that not right? I'd love to be wrong and be corrected by an expert, that's why I come to IH8MUD
I just want to make sure that I have hit 100% with my pump before I move on to a 12mm pump.
The way I figure it, the pin that was in there originally had a max of 3mm to the flat. I thought that 6.8mm was max throw for the follower pin. I realise that my 10mm plunger is the limiting factor of volume delivery (thanks Biggie for prev) but if I was only pushing it out 3mm (follower) previously surely that would mean I would now be able to deliver the max that my pump is capable of. As opposed to way under fuelling like I think I was before.
I know we still have to take in to account the max fuel screw position.
Is all that not right? I'd love to be wrong and be corrected by an expert, that's why I come to IH8MUD
I just want to make sure that I have hit 100% with my pump before I move on to a 12mm pump.
- Thread starter
- #227
you will just be really careful of VE pump run away when your tuning that high.
I would read up a little on that.
You'll probably get 150hp at the wheels or just over.
Remember to try and get that W2A completely heat soaked too when your tuning so you don't get those AFRs out of wack.
I would read up a little on that.
You'll probably get 150hp at the wheels or just over.
Remember to try and get that W2A completely heat soaked too when your tuning so you don't get those AFRs out of wack.
Thanks Karter. If I can squeeze 150 out of it I'll be very happy. It's not all about total power, I just want good drivability with the ability for a bit of a roar when I need it.
Thanks biggie, I'm on the way to having the full depth grind I'm sure it'll take half a dozen pins to get the ramp right and the max fuel screw will come down to EGT results.
I've done quite a but of work on my airflow in/out and intercooling so hopefully I can give that screw a nudge.
I know it had a 3mm pin in it and the max throttle and max fuel screws still had their anti tamper fitted. It was gutless as.
I'm pretty sure I can improve on that.
I've done quite a but of work on my airflow in/out and intercooling so hopefully I can give that screw a nudge.
I know it had a 3mm pin in it and the max throttle and max fuel screws still had their anti tamper fitted. It was gutless as.
I'm pretty sure I can improve on that.
Far out runaway sounds like a bit of a worry. I found a good technique on Diesel Bombers.
"With each ½ turn of the fuel screw give it a hard rev. Once it hangs up a little before coming back down or doesn't return to proper idle, you are at the edge of a runaway, this is where you back it off ½ a turn and call it day "
Sweet, I'll give it go
"With each ½ turn of the fuel screw give it a hard rev. Once it hangs up a little before coming back down or doesn't return to proper idle, you are at the edge of a runaway, this is where you back it off ½ a turn and call it day "
Sweet, I'll give it go
Squash
SILVER Star
Good time to install a valve on the fuel line just in case.
Ours are mounted just before the filter.
Otherwise you need to kill the air, do not use a rag...get something hard!
Ours are mounted just before the filter.
Otherwise you need to kill the air, do not use a rag...get something hard!
Good call I'll look for an electric solenoid I can hook up to the ignition
Squash
SILVER Star
Since you will have the hood open to do the work a manual ball valve will do just fine.
M3 (3rd from right) looks closest to what I do and have tried profiles like all the others.
When setting I set mine up, I tune 17:1 down the bottom, set the pin to move from around 8psi. If targeting 25psi max boost for an AFR of 20-21:1, then set that max fuel occurs around 20psi. The rest of the boost leans it off. This assists spool up but not dipping below 17:1. 25psi is very very nice on a well intercooled 1HDT.
On a std turbo, you might want to have pin start to move at a lower boost pressure. M3 4th from right would probably suit better. The turbo installed and its response to AFR significantly affects how you can tune the pump without a ton of smoke on the run from 1000-2000rpm and quickly pushing the throttle from a low load to high load situation.
The easiest way though is for a pump builder to setup the pump on the bench using an actual 1HDT or FT injector and then using the fuel required from calcs. Typical cc/1000 strokes etc can then be used successfully. Not all pump shops will do this because its not cookie cutter business. But, if you can find someone in Canada that is passionate about diesels, then thats the ways to do it. I can usually get within 5% on dyno based on this method.
You also need someone to do the calcs. I do this for my customers and it's great because we can send out a pump and turbo and know that no tuning is required. Install and enjoy
I'm not in the business of selling pumps but if someone asks, I will do it for them.Also, when tuning, make sure engine is totally hot; the pump flow rate varies significantly when hot compared to cold due to expansion of parts in the head. Mine always flowed a lot more when cold.
Also tune leaner in cold weather, because when its hot it will be too rich if you tuned on the edge in he cold.
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FJRanger
SILVER Star
Graeme,
Just to clarify; are you talking about M1, third from the right in your first sentence? Later you mention M3 as fourth from the left when it's written as third from the left in the first sentence.
Best
Nathan
Just to clarify; are you talking about M1, third from the right in your first sentence? Later you mention M3 as fourth from the left when it's written as third from the left in the first sentence.
Best
Nathan
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For some reason there are two pins labelled as m3 in the pic, he's talking about both m3 pins I believe.
FJRanger
SILVER Star
Thanks , didn't notice the 2 m3s.
- Thread starter
- #239
The first m3 from the left is supposed to be M2.
Talking to M&H M3 is recommended, its seems to be the pick for the 4bt crowd.
I am going to try the true M3 route...
Talking to M&H M3 is recommended, its seems to be the pick for the 4bt crowd.
I am going to try the true M3 route...
I'm not sure what one is true M3, but the middle one is the profile I used from 2005-2010. Nowdays I find using a standard pin that was in Aussie models with a very minor change that's looks more like third from right. I see some models have pins from std that look like the first two pins and in this case, I would be inclined to replace the pin. I would use 4340 CrMo as a base steel or harder, needs to be very hard.
Another pointer is that for fine tuning, don't be afraid to adjust the maximum pin depression by using washers installed around the pin to restrict it's movement. This is done at the end of the tune to raise the afrs. Of course you can always add more spring tension or unwind the main screw, but if the ramp is nice and "just matches" the turbo, the tension increase or main fuel screw unwind will have a noticeably adverse affect on the spool up. So, everything else being good, the washers work well to raise up the afrs without affecting drivability. Not that I often do this....
Another trick in setting the pump up is to remove the aneroid pin completely, set boost level on turbo and adjust main fuel screw to desired afr target at max power. Well, torque really. I tune mine at 2000rpm with this method, but you should check how the afrs change with rpm at full throttle, as intercooling efficiency, turbo efficiency, air filter restriction and pump condition (as it affects the fueling vs rpm curve) all contribute to how the afrs change over rpm with boost set to 14, 25 or whatever you run. Then don't touch the main fuel screw again.
Everything else done is for minimizing smoke. Note that turbine drive energy on a 1HDT seems to fall away below 16:1 and it's smokes like a steam train at this AFR anyway, so 17 is the lowest I like to see as the base off boost setting. There's more time for combustion to take place at the low rpms, so 17:1 at 1400 looks better than at 2500!
Happy tuning
Another pointer is that for fine tuning, don't be afraid to adjust the maximum pin depression by using washers installed around the pin to restrict it's movement. This is done at the end of the tune to raise the afrs. Of course you can always add more spring tension or unwind the main screw, but if the ramp is nice and "just matches" the turbo, the tension increase or main fuel screw unwind will have a noticeably adverse affect on the spool up. So, everything else being good, the washers work well to raise up the afrs without affecting drivability. Not that I often do this....
Another trick in setting the pump up is to remove the aneroid pin completely, set boost level on turbo and adjust main fuel screw to desired afr target at max power. Well, torque really. I tune mine at 2000rpm with this method, but you should check how the afrs change with rpm at full throttle, as intercooling efficiency, turbo efficiency, air filter restriction and pump condition (as it affects the fueling vs rpm curve) all contribute to how the afrs change over rpm with boost set to 14, 25 or whatever you run. Then don't touch the main fuel screw again.
Everything else done is for minimizing smoke. Note that turbine drive energy on a 1HDT seems to fall away below 16:1 and it's smokes like a steam train at this AFR anyway, so 17 is the lowest I like to see as the base off boost setting. There's more time for combustion to take place at the low rpms, so 17:1 at 1400 looks better than at 2500!
Happy tuning
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