Induced failure and failure from a defect are not the same thing. Hence the "sent them photos first".
SPC UCA failure (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter D_Web
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But did you read the post explaining how this failure can be caused by improper installation? Unless I misread.
I've got no skin in the game and have never dealt with SPC but just after reading this post I would be hesitant to buy from them.
Manufacturers can make a good product but it's the customer service that is going to sell it. Who's going to buy something from someone when they hear that they won't stand behind it, or tell customers to pound sand? Public relations is the biggest asset any company has when it comes to marketing their product and it really does go a long way with buyers and prospective buyers. Think about how much research people do before buying something? It's the first thing I do when I'm looking into upgrades for my rig and its posts like these that would turn me off immediately.
I can understand companies not wanting to get walked on by their clients, but really regardless of how the UCA broke prospective buyers are going to see this thread and these pictures and not want to buy them just because it broke and the one they pay for and install on their rig could too.
Manufacturers can make a good product but it's the customer service that is going to sell it. Who's going to buy something from someone when they hear that they won't stand behind it, or tell customers to pound sand? Public relations is the biggest asset any company has when it comes to marketing their product and it really does go a long way with buyers and prospective buyers. Think about how much research people do before buying something? It's the first thing I do when I'm looking into upgrades for my rig and its posts like these that would turn me off immediately.
I can understand companies not wanting to get walked on by their clients, but really regardless of how the UCA broke prospective buyers are going to see this thread and these pictures and not want to buy them just because it broke and the one they pay for and install on their rig could too.
@sleeoffroad
MOB mentality propagates here when poor products & service happens; it's the basis for forum discussion. I doubt there'd be 6 pages (100+ posts) of commentary if SPC would have made the slightest bit of effort to lend some assistance to transition the complaint to a helpful outcome; original purchaser or not, "professionally" installed or not. A little good will goes a long way in a niche market like ours. SPC has had a number of fails over the past few years on the 100 series product, enough to create demand for several other fabricators to offer options. Not to mention a litany of 120 series complaints. They have effectively pushed business out- not in. Its a careless approach that doesn't build much confidence in the brand.
1.) If it were my product, I would want to know why it failed the way it did. 2.) Knowing that there are several other brand options available I'd want to be sure I kept the customer with SPC product. 3.) So much easier and less costly to try and satisfy one customer issue than try and undo and overcome hundreds of negative comments. I think a kindly worded response from SPC along the lines of sorry that you encounter this failure and even though your claim falls well outside our warranty policy we will offer you a x% coupon towards a new replacement set."
You've chimed in because maybe you have a vested interest in some part of the product, wether it be in consideration of your existing inventory or some other tie in with SPC. Maybe you could have offered the OP some assistance, and won a new customer; but thats been squandered by scolding the MOB.
(I've corrected my earlier post on manufacturing origin, thanks for bringing that to light)
MOB mentality propagates here when poor products & service happens; it's the basis for forum discussion. I doubt there'd be 6 pages (100+ posts) of commentary if SPC would have made the slightest bit of effort to lend some assistance to transition the complaint to a helpful outcome; original purchaser or not, "professionally" installed or not. A little good will goes a long way in a niche market like ours. SPC has had a number of fails over the past few years on the 100 series product, enough to create demand for several other fabricators to offer options. Not to mention a litany of 120 series complaints. They have effectively pushed business out- not in. Its a careless approach that doesn't build much confidence in the brand.
1.) If it were my product, I would want to know why it failed the way it did. 2.) Knowing that there are several other brand options available I'd want to be sure I kept the customer with SPC product. 3.) So much easier and less costly to try and satisfy one customer issue than try and undo and overcome hundreds of negative comments. I think a kindly worded response from SPC along the lines of sorry that you encounter this failure and even though your claim falls well outside our warranty policy we will offer you a x% coupon towards a new replacement set."
You've chimed in because maybe you have a vested interest in some part of the product, wether it be in consideration of your existing inventory or some other tie in with SPC. Maybe you could have offered the OP some assistance, and won a new customer; but thats been squandered by scolding the MOB.
(I've corrected my earlier post on manufacturing origin, thanks for bringing that to light)
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
@abuck99 we were called on Friday during HIH by someone with a broken arm (who I assume was the OP) and asked if we could overnight one to Silverton. I asked for pics to see if we could help and also checked stock and shipping options. We did have arms in stock but there was no overnight service to Silverton available wit UPS. OP did not buy from us but we tried to help, however on a Friday our hands were tied. I later saw that he was able to source a set from someone at the event. I did not hear anything about this again until I saw the thread.
Could SPC have acted different, yes. I am pretty sure from knowing the people at the company they will also learn from this, however it is a slippery slope when you just start throwing parts at customers that are our of warranty, since the social media and internet will also carry that and everyone will then expect that to become the norm.
Yes, we are a large SPC dealer, and I also posted to explain that this was a very rare case based on the numbers we sell as well as a technical reason why it could happen that could possibly help someone.
The interesting thing is that is the OP was the original purchaser and he had contacted the vendor that he purchased it from, the outcome might have been completely different, even when out of warranty.
Could SPC have acted different, yes. I am pretty sure from knowing the people at the company they will also learn from this, however it is a slippery slope when you just start throwing parts at customers that are our of warranty, since the social media and internet will also carry that and everyone will then expect that to become the norm.
Yes, we are a large SPC dealer, and I also posted to explain that this was a very rare case based on the numbers we sell as well as a technical reason why it could happen that could possibly help someone.
The interesting thing is that is the OP was the original purchaser and he had contacted the vendor that he purchased it from, the outcome might have been completely different, even when out of warranty.
Cool that you tried to help them out during HIH. I'd disagree that the slope gets slippery by providing support towards out of warranty support, there's a way to manage the grey area. IMO that near term zero variance thinking is THE problem that costs the seller/manufacturer more down the road. I've managed warranty support on a global basis for a number of consumer products, its pretty easy to discern between one taking advantage and one needing some attention while keep budgets intact. Consistency is important, but some EQ around the larger situation goes a long way.
- Thread starter
- #107
I was offline for a few days and a lot of discussion has taken place.
Yes, Christo is correct, I am not the original owner, and I should have mentioned this initially; however, I hardly see how this absolves them of all responsibility. Hiding behind a warranty policy such as this for a product that should outlast the life of vehicle is lazy.
I can say that the arm was free to move and showed no abnormal wear. I have plenty of photos of the arm in situ prior to removal if anyone wants to analyse the install.
My frustration lies in SPC's unwillingness to reach a solution. Yes, standing by your product costs money. That's why we pay $700+ for these things. It's a cost of doing business and is built in to the price. I intentionally didn't post to mud immediately after it happened to give them a chance at resolving the problem - whether that was a replacement at no cost, a replacement at a nominal cost, a single arm (as compared to a pair), etc. There was no attempt.
SPC should be terrified that a critical component failed like this. They don't seem to care. To me, it shows what they think of their customers.
Yes, Christo is correct, I am not the original owner, and I should have mentioned this initially; however, I hardly see how this absolves them of all responsibility. Hiding behind a warranty policy such as this for a product that should outlast the life of vehicle is lazy.
I can say that the arm was free to move and showed no abnormal wear. I have plenty of photos of the arm in situ prior to removal if anyone wants to analyse the install.
My frustration lies in SPC's unwillingness to reach a solution. Yes, standing by your product costs money. That's why we pay $700+ for these things. It's a cost of doing business and is built in to the price. I intentionally didn't post to mud immediately after it happened to give them a chance at resolving the problem - whether that was a replacement at no cost, a replacement at a nominal cost, a single arm (as compared to a pair), etc. There was no attempt.
SPC should be terrified that a critical component failed like this. They don't seem to care. To me, it shows what they think of their customers.
I think I just need to check out of this thread before my eyes roll out of my head.
I still want to hear about all the free replacements parts from Toyota from out of warranty not original purchaser 100s.
I still want to hear about all the free replacements parts from Toyota from out of warranty not original purchaser 100s.
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@sleeoffroad
I still fail to see how this was anything other than a material or manufacturing defect. It's not like the area of failure is a "wear" point. If a ball joint wears out prematurely, bushings fail, etc... sure, i get it. But not this.
Edit: I just found your previous comment where the preload and improper install at the bushing end may have caused it. OK, fair enough. I retract my pitchfork
I still fail to see how this was anything other than a material or manufacturing defect. It's not like the area of failure is a "wear" point. If a ball joint wears out prematurely, bushings fail, etc... sure, i get it. But not this.
Edit: I just found your previous comment where the preload and improper install at the bushing end may have caused it. OK, fair enough. I retract my pitchfork
With all due respect, its not. The warranty stated on their website is built into the price. They don't build in to the cost additional warranty items outside of their policy. Pricing schematics is a math equation. You aren't building in overhead for cost assumptions that don't exist.
A great example of this is the optic industry. In firearm optics in particular (although binoculars and spotting scopes this applies in a different degree) Vortex changed the game with their no questions asked warranties. It always amazes me when people didn't understand this is built into the price. A scope from a competitor that wasn't offering such a warranty at the same price point wasn't necessarily screwing over the customer, in many cases they were providing a better product.
After going through a life altering industrial accident a few years back, I look at it this way:
In general the warranty is the least of my worries.
If I am buying a part that could potentially injure or kill me in case of a failure, I would want it to come from a company that has pockets deep enough to take care of my bills and/or my family. If a claim would bankrupt them, or they are in a far away country under a different rule of law, I will not buy their product.
Therefor I mostly stick to OEM.
In general the warranty is the least of my worries.
If I am buying a part that could potentially injure or kill me in case of a failure, I would want it to come from a company that has pockets deep enough to take care of my bills and/or my family. If a claim would bankrupt them, or they are in a far away country under a different rule of law, I will not buy their product.
Therefor I mostly stick to OEM.
I come here for the mob mentality and ensuing discussion. Power in numbers. Progression through friction.
I like you guys, even though I like to argue with everyone
In summary for me, I have nothing against the company or have any direct customer service experience (I’ve purchased the parts and rebuilt). It’s plain and simple for me. The arms (I’ve had all the different iterations and “updates” in multiple vehicles over the years), simply don’t last as long as I’d expect after dropping the amount of money I have on them. They simply don’t hold up. I’ve mentioned the duration they last for me in previous posts already. Hoping I have better results with my new arms. I think sharing my experiences on these , especially being an experienced user, is one of the reasons why we have forums.
I don't think Vortex changed the game .If your Leupold riflescope, binocular, or spotting scope doesn’t perform, we will repair or replace it for free - whether you're the original owner or not. You don’t need proof of ownership or a warranty card, and there’s no time limit. We do this because we believe in superior quality and craftsmanship, and we’re confident your Leupold won’t let you down.
I own both products but Leupold has always been this way as long as I remember.
This forum is great for a newbie like me. Thank you for all the input, advice and sharing of your experiences of the options we have when building our LCs out. I was just figuring out which UCAs to buy, this thread kind of sealed the deal for me.
you want to buy my NIB SPCs? lol
I put SPCs on my LX because they had the bracket to attach the AHC sensor. What a POS, paper thin bracket that bends by hand. Had I known that I would have avoided them. Now that I'm AHC free I'll replace them with something better when the ball joints wear out.
Cristo definitely has a skin in this game considering his kits have SPC control arms so I take his responses with a grain of salt.
Cristo definitely has a skin in this game considering his kits have SPC control arms so I take his responses with a grain of salt.
Well that’s a huge mistake. Taking someone with a massive amount of experience with a product who everyone says is a standup guy and does great work with a grain of salt. Real smart.
- Thread starter
- #119
I’d agree with you if this was a wear part or something that could reasonably be considered to have a limited service life.
Leupolds warranty was a lifetime transferable warranty for issues with the optic. Vortex you can send them a scope that has been run over by your truck or burned in a fire and they will replace it. Nobody did that before Vortex, including Leupold. Now that type of warranty is becoming the norm, not the exception. Even Leupolds current warranty only speaks to the performance of the scope, it's not a 'we will cover absolutely anything warranty' like Vortex. Leupolds is behind the times in riflescope game, their new Mark 5s are just catching up... But thats a whole different topic.
I'm not hyping Vortex here. I actually don't love their glass so I don't have much of it. My comment was in regards to how their pricing structure includes eventual warranty replacement to such a large degree.
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