Replacing All Brake Lines - A Ton of Questions

[RWBeringer4x4]

yes, you need it

That comment was referring to when I was still planning on keeping the drums - early disc/drum setups (76-78ish) didn't have proportioning valves, did they?

At this point it's just for my own education - 99% sure I'm going to discs, thus proportioning valve is required no matter what.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Consolidating my unanswered questions and bumping for some answers, hopefully:

1. Anyone running a 60-series Master Cylinder? Is it bolt-on or do you have to shorten the push rod like an 80-series master?

2. Are these the "tombstone" hose clips everyone uses? Are there specific sizes/specs required or are they universal?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hfm-hexblt1/overview/

3. I'm assuming this Wilwood 10mm x 1.0 proportioning valve is the commonly used one everyone refers to?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-260-12627/overview/

 

[scrapdaddy]

#2... I made my own, those should work fine.


#3... That is the one I used.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

#2... I made my own, those should work fine.

#3... That is the one I used.

Thanks! Didn't know if there was something specific (ie diameter or something).

I guess I'll find out if I need a spacer when it comes time to adjust the push rod - seems like something that would be easy enough to fab.

 

[tyama]

brake lines

Hiya,

I replaced all my brake lines when i did my rebuild a few years ago. The cheapest way to do it is to go to a junk yard and pull the lines from any toyota/honda/nissan vehicle. They are usually long and straight with connectors, body wall attachments, Tee's, etc... They should swap into your's without a hitch as they should all be 10mm. And, you can mix and match as you like. I got connectors from these guys as I made up my own lines:

http://www.brakequip.com/

I would also look at my soft lines before getting tombstones as the openings differ. I think toyota's had hexagonal openings. I cut some off some from an old 4runner axle and welded them to mine.

I also did a search on Napa's website and found these soft lines that should fit what you want

Brake /clutch hoses Male M10 to Female M10 Toyota

97 land cruiser left front 15.5”
rear 13.375”
97 4 runner rear 14.625”
97 tacoma rear 15.5”
2002 tundra rear 20.25”
2002 4 runner rear 10.125”
84 pickup 19.00”
92 pickup rear 17.25”
92 land cruiser front 16”
84 land cruiser rear 14” with wire braid
Napa UP 38009 22”

Again, you can choose any of these to work for your soft lines.

You got some good feedback on the other parts, but i thought this would help.

regards, ty

 

[sggoat]

I guess I'm dumb about this proportioning valve thing. why, exactly, is it needed? A hydraulic system will put pressure equally to all points that it has access to. I was thinking this would be what you would want--equal pressure everywhere. Sounds like this is not the case??

Stock disc/drum setups had a proportioning valve in the rear circuit. If you're planning to eventually convert to 4 wheel discs, spend the money once, and get an adjustable one. When I converted to discs, I added a stock proportioning valve... A couple years later I swapped in a FF axle and it didn't reduce the pressure enough, so I swapped in an Adjustable one, and a little later, I converted the rear to Discs... En I just readjusted the knob... I could've saved a few bucks by buying a Wilwood adjustable one in the first place.

And yes, they are needed, I drove without one, and it wasn't a whole lot of fun.

 

[pb4ugo]

If you dont have a p/v the rear tires lock up easily. There's a pic of it in 1 scrapdaddys post.

 

[Pighead]

why, exactly, is it needed?

I don't know. I still have a NIB proportioning valve because I found I did not need it...
(Toyota front discs, Poser rear, '74 master & booster in an FJ55 on 37s)

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

I guess I'm dumb about this proportioning valve thing. why, exactly, is it needed? A hydraulic system will put pressure equally to all points that it has access to. I was thinking this would be what you would want--equal pressure everywhere. Sounds like this is not the case??

I don't know. I still have a NIB proportioning valve because I found I did not need it...
(Toyota front discs, Poser rear, '74 master & booster in an FJ55 on 37s)

My understanding is that, without the valve, your rear brakes will lock up with the same force as your front brakes, simultaneously to your front brakes, which can cause the back end to swing around on you. You don't want your rear brakes stopping as hard as the fronts...

That said, this proportioning valve questions seems to be hotly debated on the forum.

 

[pb4ugo]

When I 1st did the disc on the rear & w/stk everything else, everything worked OK, but I could easliy lock up the rear. I could feel the rears were alot stronger than the frt brakes were.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

The way I look at it, it's an extra $45 and 2 extra line flares to make. In return I get brakes that I can adjust to function safely (if need be) and, more importantly, another thing to adjust - because I just can't leave well enough alone.

 

[fj401978]

It's not that the rear brakes are 'stronger' with no p/v, it's just that when you brake, more weight is applied to the front, the rear end gets light, with the same pressure going to all four wheels, the rears will lock up. A p/v lessens the pressure applied to the rear brakes to compensate for the weight shift.

 

[tyama]

hiya,

I think the other nice thing about the proportioning valve is that you can adjust your brakes to the tires, driving and road conditions if need be.

regards, ty

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

It's not that the rear brakes are 'stronger' with no p/v, it's just that when you brake, more weight is applied to the front, the rear end gets light, with the same pressure going to all four wheels, the rears will lock up. A p/v lessens the pressure applied to the rear brakes to compensate for the weight shift.

Duly noted, thanks! That said - wouldn't the same stand true for my 4-wheel drum brakes? I don't believe the old 4xdrums trucks have proportioning valves. As far as I can tell they are 4 identical drums, so locking up the front wheels should still pull the backs off the ground and cause the same situation, right?

 

[fj401978]

Duly noted, thanks! That said - wouldn't the same stand true for my 4-wheel drum brakes? I don't believe the old 4xdrums trucks have proportioning valves. As far as I can tell they are 4 identical drums, so locking up the front wheels should still pull the backs off the ground and cause the same situation, right?

I suppose...I don't know when Toyota started putting them in, but the front brakes on most anything provides roughly 70% of the braking power, I've read some of the posts of guys that did it with no valve, some say they do just fine, others say it is a nightmare when locking up the rear wheels. Being that braking is a pretty important part of a vehicles operation, I would want them to work properly...especially in an emergency. Good luck on your build...and I am taking note of all of your parts, as I will be doing this same thing when it warms up some. Thanks for all of your 'homework' on the parts lists!

Skip

 

[Canarias]

I don't believe the old 4xdrums trucks have proportioning valves. As far as I can tell they are 4 identical drums, so locking up the front wheels should still pull the backs off the ground and cause the same situation, right?

the standard drum brake setup has 4 pistons at each front wheel and 2 pistons at each rear. Front pistons are larger diameter than rears. That´s the drum brake equiv of your proportioning valve.

 

[Pighead]

It's not that the rear brakes are 'stronger' with no p/v, it's just that when you brake, more weight is applied to the front, the rear end gets light, with the same pressure going to all four wheels, the rears will lock up. A p/v lessens the pressure applied to the rear brakes to compensate for the weight shift.

I wonder if wheelbase and body type has anything to do with this as well...

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

the standard drum brake setup has 4 pistons at each front wheel and 2 pistons at each rear. Front pistons are larger diameter than rears. That´s the drum brake equiv of your proportioning valve.

I thought there was the same number of front and rear wheel cylinders...might be on to something regarding the diameter though...

 

[DSRTRDR]

you want the front to lock up first - if whatever set-up you have accomplishes that without a proportioning valve, more power to you (pun intended)

I ran front disks/rear drums on the 40 for a year without the valve just fine - the disks from the Man-a-Fre Wilwood kit are really strong

but when the GM-type rear conversion went on, the rear would lock up before the front without the PV, so on came the proportioning valve

I haven't seen this as hotly debated here on the forum as some seem to think

and yeah, I am sure that tire size and rig weight (top or not, piggy or shorter) play into the whole equation as well - but I had only my own 40 to compare to at the time ;p

 

[RattleCan]

I just replaced all the brake lines in my 40.


I used a steel tube that had a corrosion resistant coating on it called poly armor. Carried at Autozone. If you are gonna do all the lines, you will probably need a little more than 25 feet.


Unless your 40 is different than mine you should only need three softlines, One on the rear with a tee and two on the front. One going to each caliper.


The part you want for the hoses going to the caliper #BH38009. Do yourself a favor and save yourself hassle and buy these off ebay. Cheapest source.


Cant help you with the rear hose, I think you want one outta a late model Tacoma. I re-used my near new extra long heep hose since I was bending/flaring my own lines.


Do yourself a favor and order all your metric fittings and such online. I got soooo pissed trying to find M10 loose fittings in the auto parts stores. I still don't really understand this.


If you have never done double flares don't be intimidated. The key to a good flare is prepping the end of the tubing a properly. A deburred and chamfered tube makes much nicer flares.


Good luck!