Replacing All Brake Lines - A Ton of Questions

[RWBeringer4x4]

Hey All,

I'm in the midst of converting my 75 FJ40 to FJ62 front disc brakes. Along with that, I'll be installing an FJ60 Brake Master Cylinder, and trying my hand at making my own brake lines. As usual, this is all new to me, so I have 100 questions (ok, 5)...Any help would be appreciated.

1. Is there any reason NOT to use 3/16" Nickel-Copper Alloy tubing? This seems much more user-friendly (softer) and corrosion resistant than steel. Will a 25 foot spool be sufficient?

2. Will I need to include the 1/4in spacer between the brake booster and 60-series M/C (or cut 1/4" of rod off) like people do with the 80-series M/C?

3. SOFT LINES: Part numbers for the following would help (preferably NAPA, or somewhere I can source locally):
a. Firewall to Front Axle Drop Line
b. Tub to Rear Axle Drop Line
c. A longer soft line to run from Front Axle to Caliper (eliminating backing plate).
Note: I've seen NAPA P/N: UP 38881 used here - this is 16" long according to their website. That seems REALLY long - is that right?

4. Weld-on Tombstone Brake Hose Clips - seen them used, I was just wondering if there are any special considerations here, or if anything off the shelf would work.

5. I am keeping the rear drums (for now). Since the 60-series M/C is also set up for drums - I will NOT need to install a proportioning valve to the rear, correct? I only ask because I think post-1980 drums are different (larger?) will this be problematic?

Thanks, again, for any help you all can provide.

 

[Cruisertime]

Hey All,

I'm in the midst of converting my 75 FJ40 to FJ62 front disc brakes. Along with that, I'll be installing an FJ60 Brake Master Cylinder, and trying my hand at making my own brake lines. As usual, this is all new to me, so I have 100 questions (ok, 5)...Any help would be appreciated.

1. Is there any reason NOT to use 3/16" Nickel-Copper Alloy tubing? This seems much more user-friendly (softer) and corrosion resistant than steel. Will a 25 foot spool be sufficient?

As long as its D.O.T. approved its ok. Personally, I like that steel tube is a little tougher to ding than Alloy tubing. It means a lot when I am working on broken stuff in BFE with limited tools.

2. Will I need to include the 1/4in spacer between the brake booster and 60-series M/C (or cut 1/4" of rod off) like people do with the 80-series M/C?

Never done this, so I can not answer honestly.

3. SOFT LINES: Part numbers for the following would help (preferably NAPA, or somewhere I can source locally):
a. Firewall to Front Axle Drop Line
b. Tub to Rear Axle Drop Line
c. A longer soft line to run from Front Axle to Caliper (eliminating backing plate).
Note: I've seen NAPA P/N: UP 38881 used here - this is 16" long according to their website. That seems REALLY long - is that right?

Is your suspension on and set the way you want it? I am guessing so, or these numbers may change when that stuff gets replaced. If youre not gonna change, measure the distance of each and note the fitting size. Napa can custom make those lines for you. I have had them make me a few custom rubber lines for roadsters.

4. Weld-on Tombstone Brake Hose Clips - seen them used, I was just wondering if there are any special considerations here, or if anything off the shelf would work.

Rubber to hard line: Got my clips from Napa. Backed them up with zip ties.

Hard line frame mount: Weld on clips can be made from strips of 20ga avail Lowes or Depot. I made my frame "j" clips from these, just dipped ends in rubber grip. Tacked them to frame with a rosette. Not too much coating lost.

5. I am keeping the rear drums (for now). Since the 60-series M/C is also set up for drums - I will NOT need to install a proportioning valve to the rear, correct? I only ask because I think post-1980 drums are different (larger?) will this be problematic?

Not an issue, but if youre already bending lines then it makes sense to plumb the valve and not deal with it later.

Thanks, again, for any help you all can provide.

Hope that helps you a little more with your build.

 

[chicago]

Not what you're asking, but I used the stock brake lines In the engine bay all the way down to the frame. Those are some tough MF'ers to replicate.
From the frame, I took off and made my own lines.
I agree that the steel lines would be a stouter option, though a bit more difficult to work with.
Don't forget a double flare tool for the ends!!
As for the flex line... I used some braided stainless from summit, so can't really help w/ that.
BTW.. I used the. 40 booster and a 60 MC. It brakes pretty well.

 

[DougAustinTx]

"5. I am keeping the rear drums (for now). Since the 60-series M/C is also set up for drums - I will NOT need to install a proportioning valve to the rear, correct? I only ask because I think post-1980 drums are different (larger?) will this be problematic?"


Toyota installed a proportioning valve on the 79 and later (maybe for 76 on?) where they came with front disc and rear drums. It is necessary for decent braking. I don't see what difference the master cylinder would make.

 

[scrapdaddy]

I used a stainless steel gravel guard over my brake and fuel lines, it helps stop punctures from rocks, etc.


Hard to see in the picture, but it slides over the tubing, before doing your flares.

 

[bikersmurf]

"5. I am keeping the rear drums (for now). Since the 60-series M/C is also set up for drums - I will NOT need to install a proportioning valve to the rear, correct? I only ask because I think post-1980 drums are different (larger?) will this be problematic?"


Toyota installed a proportioning valve on the 79 and later (maybe for 76 on?) where they came with front disc and rear drums. It is necessary for decent braking. I don't see what difference the master cylinder would make.

Stock disc/drum setups had a proportioning valve in the rear circuit. If you're planning to eventually convert to 4 wheel discs, spend the money once, and get an adjustable one. When I converted to discs, I added a stock proportioning valve... A couple years later I swapped in a FF axle and it didn't reduce the pressure enough, so I swapped in an Adjustable one, and a little later, I converted the rear to Discs... En I just readjusted the knob... I could've saved a few bucks by buying a Wilwood adjustable one in the first place.

And yes, they are needed, I drove without one, and it wasn't a whole lot of fun.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

I used a stainless steel gravel guard over my brake and fuel lines, it helps stop punctures from rocks, etc.


Hard to see in the picture, but it slides over the tubing, before doing your flares.

Scrapdaddy - if I'm getting gravel all the way up to my Master Cylinder, I think I have bigger problems...but I'll definitely keep it in mind for the axle lines!

Also - it looks like you're running a 60-series MC - did you have to add a spacer or trim the push rod to get it to work properly?

Stock disc/drum setups had a proportioning valve in the rear circuit. If you're planning to eventually convert to 4 wheel discs, spend the money once, and get an adjustable one. When I converted to discs, I added a stock proportioning valve... A couple years later I swapped in a FF axle and it didn't reduce the pressure enough, so I swapped in an Adjustable one, and a little later, I converted the rear to Discs... En I just readjusted the knob... I could've saved a few bucks by buying a Wilwood adjustable one in the first place.

And yes, they are needed, I drove without one, and it wasn't a whole lot of fun.

Noted. I was hoping to avoid buying the proportioning valve, BUT if it's necessary to safely stop, and I'm re-plumbing the whole truck anyway you're absolutely right - it makes perfect sense to add it now.

That said - it seems like for the cost of 4 new wheel cylinders, and new drums, I could buy Monte Carlo Calipers, mounting brackets, and rotors, and just convert to discs now for the same price as rebuilding the drums...

Logic dictates that I rethink keeping the rear drums...

If I convert to rear discs - I would also need to remove the residual valve from the rear circuit of the M/C, correct? I'm sure thats in a conversion write-up somewhere...

 

[scrapdaddy]

I used a '93 T100 master cylinder and a '98 Tacoma booster, I haven't used any spacer, other than a 1/2 inch behind the booster, to keep it away from the firewall.


I haven't bled the system yet, so not sure if anything else is needed.


The gravel guard is used through out all the lines, not needed in the engine compartment, just wanted it to match everywhere and I had the tubing bought, so.


Years ago, I had a rock take out my electric fuel pump, while running a gravel bar, not good out in the middle of nowhere. Since then I try to cover the " what if " things.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

I used a '93 T100 master cylinder and a '98 Tacoma booster, I haven't used any spacer, other than a 1/2 inch behind the booster, to keep it away from the firewall.


I haven't bled the system yet, so not sure if anything else is needed.


The gravel guard is used through out all the lines, not needed in the engine compartment, just wanted it to match everywhere and I had the tubing bought, so.


Years ago, I had a rock take out my electric fuel pump, while running a gravel bar, not good out in the middle of nowhere. Since then I try to cover the " what if " things.

Hmm, I'm not sure I'm currently running any type of spacer - I'll have to see if someone else chimes in...

Anyone used a 60 series M/C on a 40? Do you need to trim the rod to make it function properly?

 

[scrapdaddy]

I'm building an FJ55, so firewall is different, your 40 might be fine.

 

[shipmag]

I'm building an FJ55, so firewall is different, your 40 might be fine.

Scapdaddy
What tubing and size did you use for your brake lines? I like your idea of the steel spring wrap.

 

[scrapdaddy]

3/16ths, from Fedhill http://store.fedhillusa.com/316directory.aspx

Here's the Gravel Guard. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rsd-ggs316s-20/overview/

 

[shipmag]

Do I want fine thread tube ends or coarse? Do I want the male or female ends to run most of the tubing? I realize I have to have both if connecting two tubes together so I dont have to use a union.

 

[fj4some]

I just bought a disc front end out of a 76 fj40 to put in my 72 fj40. I do not understand what the proportioning valve is or where it is and what it does. I thought you just add the axle and hook up the brake lines and it would work. I guess I am not a good mechanic. Thats what this forum is for. Great help. Pics????

 

[shipmag]

For Gravel guard what diameter do I want for 3/16 tubing 1/4" or 3/16?

 

[Canarias]

when I made up new brake lines, I used copper. Steel lines might be stronger when new but in a few yrs time old copper lines will be a lot stronger than rusty old steel ones. Maybe you can use stainless lines but not sure how easy they are to bend?

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

First - my own question.

Are these the tombstone hose clips everyone talks about?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hfm-hexblt1/overview/

Is there any more to it or are they pretty universal?

I just bought a disc front end out of a 76 fj40 to put in my 72 fj40. I do not understand what the proportioning valve is or where it is and what it does. I thought you just add the axle and hook up the brake lines and it would work. I guess I am not a good mechanic. Thats what this forum is for. Great help. Pics????

Fj4some - Search "front disc conversion" on this forum. There are dozens of threads, and pictures of proportioning valve. You most likely will not need one - it is primarily for if you convert to REAR discs, to prevent your rear brakes from locking up before the front ones.

All you will need to do is remove the residual valve from your stock, drum brake Master Cylinder, or replace it with a stock disc brake one. Again - search is your friend, they go into great detail, and you will save yourself a ton of time waiting for people to reply.

when I made up new brake lines, I used copper. Steel lines might be stronger when new but in a few yrs time old copper lines will be a lot stronger than rusty old steel ones. Maybe you can use stainless lines but not sure how easy they are to bend?

I have heard this is bad - because copper is not good at withstanding vibrations, and will crack at the flare-fittings. That is why they started adding Nickel, and creating an alloy, for this application. The nickel/copper alloy is less prone to cracking, and still won't corrode.

Do I want fine thread tube ends or coarse? Do I want the male or female ends to run most of the tubing? I realize I have to have both if connecting two tubes together so I dont have to use a union.

I believe most of the "female" fittings come in the form of T-fittings at the various brake tubing junctions. Almost all the tube ends will be male. I'm hoping I can re-use my female T-fittings, as apparently the stock ones are tough to find.

The male fittings are all 10mm x 1.0 (fine thread) fittings. I believe these are correct:

http://store.fedhillusa.com/14nutpack.aspx

UNLESS you have an older truck (I can't remember the exact cut off) but the 60's trucks and maybe the early 70's ones have 9.0mm fittings.

This was yanked from Vae Victis' thread "Making Brake Lines" so I hope he is correct!

 

[DSRTRDR]

I was hoping to avoid buying the proportioning valve, BUT if it's necessary to safely stop, and I'm re-plumbing the whole truck anyway you're absolutely right - it makes perfect sense to add it now.

yes, you need it

That said - it seems like for the cost of 4 new wheel cylinders, and new drums, I could buy Monte Carlo Calipers, mounting brackets, and rotors, and just convert to discs now for the same price as rebuilding the drums...

indeed

If I convert to rear discs - I would also need to remove the residual valve from the rear circuit of the M/C, correct?

yes, residual valve to be removed from any circuit with disks

 

[scrapdaddy]

For Gravel guard what diameter do I want for 3/16 tubing 1/4" or 3/16?

3/16ths

 

[shipmag]

Thanks scrapdaddy I really like your layout
Of the brake lines you did.