Any examples of the dying seagul? While warming up the LC yesterday morning I could hear what sounded like the brake pump squealing slightly over the engine noise. No lights and it went away after what seemed like too long.
Poll on total brake failure in 100 series (3 Viewers)
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Here's a very short monetary example. I suggest you open the hood and turn key to ON (don't start) and watch the reservoir. Do this on cold morning, before start up, and before pressing brake pedal. Watch reservoir for bubbles coming up front of it, at same time you hear squeal. It typically gets worse with time and cold OAT.
Generally the worst is on cold mornings before brake fluid/seals warm up. As seal have not yet expanded from heat create with use or warm OAT.
You can live with for awhile. But concern is it start happen more and more. Than in time happens while your driving and may not hear it. The pump runs longer duration than designed for. It then fails prematurely. If pump fails to fire up. You lose brake pressure in system. NO pressure and pedals goes to the floor, NO BRAKES effectively!
At 4 sec., it squeal just a split second and barely a ripple in reservoir. As fluid and seals were starting to warm from use. But just before videoing, it was a longer duration and very clear bubble come up up front of reservoir.
Generally the worst is on cold mornings before brake fluid/seals warm up. As seal have not yet expanded from heat create with use or warm OAT.
You can live with for awhile. But concern is it start happen more and more. Than in time happens while your driving and may not hear it. The pump runs longer duration than designed for. It then fails prematurely. If pump fails to fire up. You lose brake pressure in system. NO pressure and pedals goes to the floor, NO BRAKES effectively!
At 4 sec., it squeal just a split second and barely a ripple in reservoir. As fluid and seals were starting to warm from use. But just before videoing, it was a longer duration and very clear bubble come up up front of reservoir.
I don't know about 'dying segull'. I have an alarm inside the cab that is very loud and piercing. Can't miss it at all. As soon as I turn the key.
For symptoms, I don't have the bubbles in the reservoir, but I'll check another time. See above for codes.
I can't decide on changing out the whole MC assembly (new$2400, rebuilt OEM $1200) or just the booster assembly ($800).
For symptoms, I don't have the bubbles in the reservoir, but I'll check another time. See above for codes.
I can't decide on changing out the whole MC assembly (new$2400, rebuilt OEM $1200) or just the booster assembly ($800).
DTC codes are helpful to point mechanic to correct diagnostic tree. I'd do more work before pulling trigger on parts, than just review codes. It may just need fluid. It may need booster assmy Or may need New master w/booster. I'd not touch a rebuild master.
Thanks, 2001LC, I appreciate your input all over this site.
The first symptoms occurred about 1.5 months before internal alarm and loss of brakes.
Seeing the brake light on, finding low fluid, and adding properly. Next day, observe leak on inside of left front wheel. Looks like a leaking caliper.
5 weeks go by, needs more fluid before family takes it on road trip. I didn't fix the caliper.
Family makes it about 10 miles down the road and then the lights and alarms. They turn around and make it about 3 miles before total loss of brakes. They coast to a stop safely, and now it's in my driveway as I save money for the parts, and try to learn to diagnose myself.
Codes just tells us where to start looking. You can get brake code for just a weak or dead battery.
When you pump brake pedal, then turn key on afterwards, Do you hear booster motor run? NO! Than likely commutator of motor shot. Which is number on reason brakes fail (booster motor not working). Number 2 reason; is loss of fluid. In either case you loss brake pressure.
Seeing a brake fluid leak and let family drive, is good way to loose your family.
Would be good idea to post up clear picture of brake master reservoir, each caliper including hoses and lines, and leak you have found.
Did you read top of reservoir before topping. NO, You're not alone. Even shops don't.
So I am thinking about having this repair done as a preventative measure. I'd rather get ahead of it than experience a failure while traveling. What "should" this repair cost at a reputable shop? (i.e. not a dealership) We have a place here in town called Pro-Toy that has a good reputation from what I hear. I've never used them and only recently became a 100 owner. Prior to this I've always owned Jeeps and did most of my own work. Figured I'd call them and see if they can give me some sort of estimate but I've seen all sorts of numbers thrown around in threads on this topic.
$1800 for the assembly, maybe more. A couple hours labor.
@Haulinvols The key driver on price is parts. The pump assembly can from $700ish (rebuilt) to $1650 (brand new from dealer). If you can provide your own parts to this shop you could get yourself a better deal. I want to say the job is around 5-6 hours of labor to replace pump and bleed the brakes. I paid $2200ish to a local shop that charged $100/hour and paid $1650 to get a pump directly from Lexus. That's the high end from what I've seen here. I was in a pinch and needed my daily back. Good on you for getting this done as PM.
edit: this was 5 years ago so pricing may have changed
edit: this was 5 years ago so pricing may have changed
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- #890
Mmmm... come to think of it, I started this poll now 6.5 years ago. At 12,000 miles per year average, your average 100 should now have about 80,000 miles more currently than in 2015 -although it's probably quite a bit less in real life I would think. I wonder if historical stats would show that the mileage of max braking incidents started to slide towards higher mileage...? Could very well be cuz that distribution seemed more symmetrical some time back. Don't know how to find that info, unfortunately, though.
I've always been amazed that Toyota has allowed this issue to hang out there with what seems to me to be HUGE liability for a well-known problem! It just seems so unToyota-like to me. I mean, at the very least, just make the parts very affordable and allow people to replace them as preventative maintenance (I think in the $500 range, many / most people would just replace these critical parts before experiencing problems).
All that being said, the brake contraptions for the 2003-2007 models have definitely come down in price. One example below (accumulator and pump don't appear on the illustration, but the description says they're included) This is headed in the right direction for regularly-scheduled maintenance items.....just not quite there yet
All that being said, the brake contraptions for the 2003-2007 models have definitely come down in price. One example below (accumulator and pump don't appear on the illustration, but the description says they're included) This is headed in the right direction for regularly-scheduled maintenance items.....just not quite there yet
Thanks for the responses. Got a few projects to get to first but I am most likely going to replace the assembly in the next few months as a preventative measure. I'd rather not wait until it fails considering I have over 260K on the clock.
Anyone know how to tell if the brake assembly has been replaced? We have a 2006 lx470 with 130k miles, it’s our road trip, family off-road camping rig. I am looking to make it as reliable as possible and plan to own a long time so $1400 for new assembly is worth the peace of mind. Sounds like units fail with more miles or based on corrosion, but I worry about the age as well. Just checked the main motor/pump terminals and they look new with no corrosion, past dealer records don’t show a replacement, but last two owners were dyi mechanics and very detailed and up to date on all maintenance based on what I see and with talking with the last owner. Pictures below shows white paint marks on the unit and most lines and connectors, does the factory do this when assembling a new car or would this indicate someone has replaced it? Any way to tell with the SN? Is there a date code somewhere in the bottom? Thanks for the help!
I do not see wrench marks on hard line flare nuts. So IMHO, it has not been replaced.
The issue of brake master failing or not, has a lot to do with proper maintenance. Over time (use) all electrical motors (with brushes) will fail. But I've had 24 year old, and ~360K miles 100 series in my shop. Their Brake Masters were fine.
If you'd like me to take a look at your brake master. PM me, with your phone number. I'll text you my address. You can stop by some warm dry sunny afternoon.
The issue of brake master failing or not, has a lot to do with proper maintenance. Over time (use) all electrical motors (with brushes) will fail. But I've had 24 year old, and ~360K miles 100 series in my shop. Their Brake Masters were fine.
If you'd like me to take a look at your brake master. PM me, with your phone number. I'll text you my address. You can stop by some warm dry sunny afternoon.
Max.Powerzz
Cruisers and Art!
I highly recommend you take Paul up on his offer, he knows more about Toyota brakes than Toyota does and is a stand up dude!
Thanks Max.Powerzz I definitely plan to!
My land cruiser is 2004 with 190K miles. I first experienced the "dying seagull" or screeching sound on 2019. As I reported here
forum.ih8mud.com
Now after about 3 years, the issue come back again. I was driving in the neighborhood, suddenly the abs light and other lights went on. High pitch buzz sound went off. Brake feel soft. And the "dying seagull" sound is back. I am able to drive it back to my drive way slowly.
After reading many posts on this forum, especially from @2001LC, it seems like the only solution is to replace the whole brake master assembly (47210-60063) with a new one. Is this correct?
or
I plan to keep this truck for as long as I can, so I am thinking about investing on new set of whole brake master assembly.
If I bought the part, can it be done on the drive way or have to be done in the dealership?
I consider myself mechanically inclined. Just changed the valve cover gasket and CV Axles few weeks.
What could be the source of this noise?
2004 LC with 175K miles. bought it 6 years ago and perform maintenance by myself. It has been rock solid for the past 6 years. But recently, it start to have strange noise behind the dashboard. I am in Houston area, so weather start getting cold recently. I am still not sure about the pattern of...
forum.ih8mud.com
Now after about 3 years, the issue come back again. I was driving in the neighborhood, suddenly the abs light and other lights went on. High pitch buzz sound went off. Brake feel soft. And the "dying seagull" sound is back. I am able to drive it back to my drive way slowly.
After reading many posts on this forum, especially from @2001LC, it seems like the only solution is to replace the whole brake master assembly (47210-60063) with a new one. Is this correct?
or
47050-60043
I plan to keep this truck for as long as I can, so I am thinking about investing on new set of whole brake master assembly.
If I bought the part, can it be done on the drive way or have to be done in the dealership?
I consider myself mechanically inclined. Just changed the valve cover gasket and CV Axles few weeks.
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My truck brakes failed today. I have not heard the dying seagull noise in months but alarm went off along with ABS, VSC/VSV, brake lights. I was driving on the highway in stop and go traffic 10 miles from home. limped it home using brake pedal and lever, 210K miles
In below linked in thread, I've attempted to give some guidance on brakes, and will add to over the years. Most important, which is stated in first line:
First and foremost: Brakes should only be worked by those with high level of mechanical abilities and experienced with brake systems:
When it comes to brakes, steering/handling, wheel hubs even putting on a wheel. You must know what you are doing, and do it right! Lives are at stake!
forum.ih8mud.com
It's important to use your VIN # to detriment which parts to buy.
@txslg Likely the high pitched sound has been happening this whole time intermittently. Which is a pressure loss from a seal in the "brake master". Over time this pressure loss increases in duration, as seal(s) in the master become damaged more and more. The increase in duration causes pressure sensor to signal booster motor to run until pressure come up. Booster motor are not designed to run long duration. So likely both Master and booster motor are now damaged. Master can not be rebuilt, booster motor can be. When I google the PN# 47210-60063 you posted. I get used master w/ booster assy. Where I would in your case buy the whole assy w/booster. I would not by used or rebuilt. Especially not off ebay.
If your VIN # shows 47050-60043 which is a Brake Master w/booster assembly for USA models w/VSC 03-07 LC/LX. I'd buy it, and only from Toyota Dealership.
iH8mud is read globally. Toyota has many configuration of the 100 & 105 built and shipped globally. Using VIN # when ordering parts is a must.
First and foremost: Brakes should only be worked by those with high level of mechanical abilities and experienced with brake systems:
When it comes to brakes, steering/handling, wheel hubs even putting on a wheel. You must know what you are doing, and do it right! Lives are at stake!
Brakes ...... Overdue write-up.
First and foremost: Brakes should only be worked by those, with high level of mechanical abilities and experienced with brake systems. With the age of all 100 series today, in our aging fleet. Any issue, with brake master assembly. IMHO, best and safest course of action. Have the whole brake...
forum.ih8mud.com
It's important to use your VIN # to detriment which parts to buy.
@txslg Likely the high pitched sound has been happening this whole time intermittently. Which is a pressure loss from a seal in the "brake master". Over time this pressure loss increases in duration, as seal(s) in the master become damaged more and more. The increase in duration causes pressure sensor to signal booster motor to run until pressure come up. Booster motor are not designed to run long duration. So likely both Master and booster motor are now damaged. Master can not be rebuilt, booster motor can be. When I google the PN# 47210-60063 you posted. I get used master w/ booster assy. Where I would in your case buy the whole assy w/booster. I would not by used or rebuilt. Especially not off ebay.
If your VIN # shows 47050-60043 which is a Brake Master w/booster assembly for USA models w/VSC 03-07 LC/LX. I'd buy it, and only from Toyota Dealership.
iH8mud is read globally. Toyota has many configuration of the 100 & 105 built and shipped globally. Using VIN # when ordering parts is a must.
@2001LC Thanks for the reply.
On McGeorge Toyota website, it shows part 47050-60043 fits my 2004 land cruiser.
Is this the one with the whole assemble with both Master Cylinder and Brake Actuator?
The price does drop a lot. When I first got this issue around 2019, I remember the online price for the whole assembly is around $2500, now it is $1300.
Timmy The Toolman on youtube just posted a video few hours ago about changing the whole assembly on 98 Land Cruiser. He also mentioned the price drop at the end of the video.
