Builds Moonshine - A Build Thread (2 Viewers)

[GLTHFJ60]

Your engine looks to be running a little hot. lol

Have you been driving it? Are you loving it like I am. This engine is soo cool. I don't know why everyone doesn't have one.

Haven't been driving it regularly. I've put maybe 10 miles on it since I tore it apart. My rear axle is locked and won't unlock for some dumb reason and I haven't worked on the idling / throttle response issue yet. My buddy Martin wanted to come over to help fix the running problem, but he couldn't this past weekend, so the truck sits.

Tonight will hopefully be her first drive of more than 2 miles.

 

[boots4]

Tagged into as in you used one of those vampire clips?

Actually I cut the wire and spliced the three ends together. I may have used a wire nut.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Actually I cut the wire and spliced the three ends together. I may have used a wire nut.

Ok. I can do that!

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Wednesday I drove Moonshine to the ONSC monthly meeting, a 20 minute drive there and back. She was great! I even drove her to work on Friday! Feels great to drive her around again.

Throttle response was still an issue, so yesterday I found and installed my Denny T Stage II fuel pin. It was stupid easy and I'd go so far as to say that it's the easiest modification you can do to one of these motors. Took me 20 minutes tops. Cranked it up after installing the pin and the throttle response issue seems to have gone away! I'll drive it later today to give a more comprehensive report.

Took a picture of the stock pin and the Denny T pin. As you can see, the white washer is there on top of the pin, so that other smaller washer is still a mystery. Install the fuel pin with the contour towards the front of the motor and you're good to go!

Stock:

Denny T Stage II:

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Ok. I can do that!

Johnny, keep those wires clean and tidy or this may happen before you know it...

J

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Johnny, keep those wires clean and tidy or this may happen before you know it...

J

Seriously! It's starting to get a bit messy with 3 separate custom harnesses running from the aux fuse block next to the glove box across the middle of the dash. DS speaker, DS rear 12v outlet and light panel in the tailgate.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Seriously! It's starting to get a bit messy with 3 separate custom harnesses running from the aux fuse block next to the glove box across the middle of the dash. DS speaker, DS rear 12v outlet and light panel in the tailgate.

I hear ya J, I'm getting everything together for the dual battery set up, aux fuse panel, etc... to run to all the things I MUST have in Marley.

I have most my wires run to certain areas, just need to bring it all to life now.

So, ya think two Platinums are overkill or should I look into a different aux battery?

J

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I hear ya J, I'm getting everything together for the dual battery set up, aux fuse panel, etc... to run to all the things I MUST have in Marley.

I have most my wires run to certain areas, just need to bring it all to life now.

So, ya think two Platinums are overkill or should I look into a different aux battery?

J

I'm actually planning on putting in another aux fuse block because I've just about run out of circuits on my first one! My 2M radio will take up the last circuit. This second fuse block will be IGN switched while the first is live 100% of the time.

Two Platinums should do the trick. Think about it this way, with those two massive batteries, you will NEVER need to worry about running out of juice

 

[EOE_overland]

I'm actually planning on putting in another aux fuse block because I've just about run out of circuits on my first one! My 2M radio will take up the last circuit. This second fuse block will be IGN switched while the first is live 100% of the time.

Two Platinums should do the trick. Think about it this way, with those two massive batteries, you will NEVER need to worry about running out of juice

.......unless you leave your boom boom music on all night?

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

.......unless you leave your boom boom music on all night?

That's just it... Have the stereo system, fridge, 2- 12V plugs, etc... Oh but wait.. I still have the solar panels to hook up one day too.. I should be good! I HOPE!

J

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Got my Tiny Tach and pyrometer hooked up this past weekend along with a couple of other things. Need to plumb my boost line to the intake and hook up my speedo, then all of my gauges will be installed and functional. The motor idled at 430rpm and in 4th gear, at 1800rpm with the pedal to the floor, EGTs never rose above 840* F. Have not modified the setting of the star wheel or anything else since coming back from the IP shop.

Played with the throttle plate today. Lined it up between the second and third hash marks ( counted from the top, on the timing cover side of the throttle shaft ). That was as close as I could get without mashing the throttle. It could use another half notch, but that's not gonna happen. Adjusted the idle to 700rpm. I also tightened up the throttle cable a bit to get rid of the 1/2" play in the pedal. Should drive a bit better now.

I've got a squealing coming from the front end of my motor, more audible with static engine RPM ( revving while sitting still, not load related ). Sounds like it's coming from the idler. Anyone know if the idler pulley bearings can be replaced or do you have to buy the whole idler?

Speedo to be hooked up soon, along with boost gauge, videos shortly thereafter.

 

[boots4]

That was idling extremely low. Even 700 rpm is low. I'd bump that up a little more close to 800 rpm.

Squeal could be the tensioner. My second one is now squealing but tends to quiet down after it warms up. If your idle pulley (the one used for a mechanical fan) is squealing the bearing can be replaced but it's not cheap. You could pull the belt (10 second job) and rotate all the pulley's to see if any of them feel rough to narrow it down. Alternators can squeal too.

At a max of 840F it will be your duty to increase the fueling. 8-900F is what I cruise at doing 65-70mph.

 

[bluehawk]

Hey Johnny, got the shifter knob in the mail the other day. This thing looks awesome, thanks again for sending it to me. Moonshine is looking good, hope you get everything worked out. Hopefully I will be getting down to the nitty gritty in a couple of weeks on mine. Thanks again.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

That was idling extremely low. Even 700 rpm is low. I'd bump that up a little more close to 800 rpm.

Squeal could be the tensioner. My second one is now squealing but tends to quiet down after it warms up. If your idle pulley (the one used for a mechanical fan) is squealing the bearing can be replaced but it's not cheap. You could pull the belt (10 second job) and rotate all the pulley's to see if any of them feel rough to narrow it down. Alternators can squeal too.

At a max of 840F it will be your duty to increase the fueling. 8-900F is what I cruise at doing 65-70mph.

IIRC, the service manual states 750rpm. With my one bad injector, the motor rocks pretty well at 750rpm so I went lower.

I initially thought the squeal was coming from the alternator / tensioner / AC compressor but with my head in front of the motor, the sound was definitely coming into my right ear more than the left. Know what bearing number it is or where to get it?

I'll increase the fueling as soon as my gauges are hooked up and the truck is registered as a diesel. For now I'm enjoying driving it!!

Hey Johnny, got the shifter knob in the mail the other day. This thing looks awesome, thanks again for sending it to me. Moonshine is looking good, hope you get everything worked out. Hopefully I will be getting down to the nitty gritty in a couple of weeks on mine. Thanks again.

No problem Ryan! Thanks for the compliments. I'll make my way down to TN one of these days to see your cruiser after it's put back together

 

[The Machinist]

I was thinking about what my long term plan for my 60 was today, and I got the notion of finding a 4BT of some sort and doing a full rebuild for a project, with the idea of building a virtually brand new engine to put away and store until I have the money/time/dedication to either do the swap myself or send it to a shop. My idea would be to rebuild the engine, then slowly gather all the parts I would need/want for the conversion, the plan being to spread out costs. (I'm thinking 3-5 years, basically while I get myself through college then start making more money)

I've always liked the sound of diesels, but have never owned or driven one before, and this is where my hesitation to jump into this comes from. The mild to moderate gains in power over the 2F combined with the extended range and simplicity of diesel are appealing to me. I don't so much care about saving money on fuel, but I do care about being able to stay out in the mountains longer on a tank of fuel. I went through 1/2-3/4 of a tank each day up where I went camping this summer, and the big mountain passes used up a fair chunk of that just getting to and from the gas station!

Once you get her all up and running with everything hooked up, I'd like to know how different it feels from the 2F. Power wise, does it feel substantially better, or is it comparable? Also, could anyone tell me how different it is driving a diesel vs. a gasoline truck? If you havent guessed it yet, I know virtually nothing about diesel's.

I ended up reading through your thread on the 4btswaps forum while I was looking around for ideas and basic info, and WOW... you've done a hell of a lot of work with Moonshine. I never really went through your entire thread here, just bits and pieces, but I think I'm going to have to get to reading!

 

[davegonz]

Got my Tiny Tach and pyrometer hooked up this past weekend along with a couple of other things. Need to plumb my boost line to the intake and hook up my speedo, then all of my gauges will be installed and functional. The motor idled at 430rpm and in 4th gear, at 1800rpm with the pedal to the floor, EGTs never rose above 840* F. Have not modified the setting of the star wheel or anything else since coming back from the IP shop.

Played with the throttle plate today. Lined it up between the second and third hash marks ( counted from the top, on the timing cover side of the throttle shaft ). That was as close as I could get without mashing the throttle. It could use another half notch, but that's not gonna happen. Adjusted the idle to 700rpm. I also tightened up the throttle cable a bit to get rid of the 1/2" play in the pedal. Should drive a bit better now.

I've got a squealing coming from the front end of my motor, more audible with static engine RPM ( revving while sitting still, not load related ). Sounds like it's coming from the idler. Anyone know if the idler pulley bearings can be replaced or do you have to buy the whole idler?

Speedo to be hooked up soon, along with boost gauge, videos shortly thereafter.

Damn, I'm surprised that the engine didn't turn off at that low RPM. I run between 850 and 950.

 

[boots4]

IIRC, the service manual states 750rpm. With my one bad injector, the motor rocks pretty well at 750rpm so I went lower.

Know what bearing number it is or where to get it?

Sure that's what the service manual says but many of us have bumped the idle up which has helped reduce vibs. Plus many of us are not following the service manual for fueling or timing so at this point it's really just a necessity for when you have to crack the motor open. If you'd be willing to do an experiment and bump the idle to 850+ I'm interested to hear of your results, especially with a bum injector (of course idle will rise when increasing the power screw anyways). If it sucks it's easily returned to 700.

Sorry, no memory of the bearing number but it's on the bearing itself and I think I tried calling a bearing house to see if they could find a replacement. At this point I can't remember if they could or not (potentially this is in my thread somewhere, probably in the later half but it may be faster to pull yours than look through my thread with no pic references yet). It's a deeper bearing than what we're used to.

 

[davegonz]

I also adjust the RPM's up in the summer (almost year round) to compensate for the AC compressor kicking on.

 

[Wyoming]

I was thinking about what my long term plan for my 60 was today, and I got the notion of finding a 4BT of some sort and doing a full rebuild for a project, with the idea of building a virtually brand new engine to put away and store until I have the money/time/dedication to either do the swap myself or send it to a shop. My idea would be to rebuild the engine, then slowly gather all the parts I would need/want for the conversion, the plan being to spread out costs. (I'm thinking 3-5 years, basically while I get myself through college then start making more money)

I've always liked the sound of diesels, but have never owned or driven one before, and this is where my hesitation to jump into this comes from. The mild to moderate gains in power over the 2F combined with the extended range and simplicity of diesel are appealing to me. I don't so much care about saving money on fuel, but I do care about being able to stay out in the mountains longer on a tank of fuel. I went through 1/2-3/4 of a tank each day up where I went camping this summer, and the big mountain passes used up a fair chunk of that just getting to and from the gas station!

Once you get her all up and running with everything hooked up, I'd like to know how different it feels from the 2F. Power wise, does it feel substantially better, or is it comparable? Also, could anyone tell me how different it is driving a diesel vs. a gasoline truck? If you havent guessed it yet, I know virtually nothing about diesel's.

I ended up reading through your thread on the 4btswaps forum while I was looking around for ideas and basic info, and WOW... you've done a **** of a lot of work with Moonshine. I never really went through your entire thread here, just bits and pieces, but I think I'm going to have to get to reading!

The 4bt is superior to the 2f in every way, but especially fuel mileage. I'm not kidding when I say you should be able to double the fuel mileage you get now, if not more, depending on the way you tune it.

I don't know about emissions for CA, that could be a problem. You will have to ask around for that.

The rebuild is actually very easy as long as you are very careful about labeling parts and following the manual for torque specs and such. You can get an overhaul kit for around $700 that will include new pistons, rings, bearings, valve seals, gaskets, etc...

You will love the results unless you are looking for Lexus sound quality. Think skid-steer. But it's a good, diesel, loud.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I was thinking about what my long term plan for my 60 was today, and I got the notion of finding a 4BT of some sort and doing a full rebuild for a project, with the idea of building a virtually brand new engine to put away and store until I have the money/time/dedication to either do the swap myself or send it to a shop. My idea would be to rebuild the engine, then slowly gather all the parts I would need/want for the conversion, the plan being to spread out costs. (I'm thinking 3-5 years, basically while I get myself through college then start making more money)

I've always liked the sound of diesels, but have never owned or driven one before, and this is where my hesitation to jump into this comes from. The mild to moderate gains in power over the 2F combined with the extended range and simplicity of diesel are appealing to me. I don't so much care about saving money on fuel, but I do care about being able to stay out in the mountains longer on a tank of fuel. I went through 1/2-3/4 of a tank each day up where I went camping this summer, and the big mountain passes used up a fair chunk of that just getting to and from the gas station!

Once you get her all up and running with everything hooked up, I'd like to know how different it feels from the 2F. Power wise, does it feel substantially better, or is it comparable? Also, could anyone tell me how different it is driving a diesel vs. a gasoline truck? If you havent guessed it yet, I know virtually nothing about diesel's.

I ended up reading through your thread on the 4btswaps forum while I was looking around for ideas and basic info, and WOW... you've done a hell of a lot of work with Moonshine. I never really went through your entire thread here, just bits and pieces, but I think I'm going to have to get to reading!

Thanks for reading! The thread here is significantly longer than the 4BT swaps thread, so grab some beer and set aside a couple of hours if you intend to read the whole thing. Tales of great immaturity, poor decisions and of the immense generosity of our community are all here Sprinkled through the pages are some glimpses of maturity, good decisions and cruiser tech

1. Long plans are good. Centralize your planning around what type of vehicle will enable you to have the most fun. By type I mean FJ60 ( of course ), but SOA vs. SUA, gasoline vs. diesel, manual vs. automatic, shiny straight body or bedliner-coated and dented body. Costs can be great, but space is the absolute key element. The vast majority of this build has happened in a series of garages, shops and barns that I do not own. This build literally would not have happened were it not for the incredible people that associate themselves with TLCA sanctioned clubs. If you are going to wait to do your build ( the smart thing to do ) then buy a house with a garage ( large garage ) first. Once that's set up then buy a DD and rip your cruiser apart and build until you've built your dream.

That said, I've done the exact opposite. In college I'd literally all of my money, including beer money , on cruiser parts to get the next project done. Now that I've done all of this work, I'm going to slow down and get myself into a house either with a shop or enough land that I can build a shop of my own. I couldn't be happier with the way I've done it as I've met some of my best friends through this and other builds.

2. She's hooked up and running now. I've been DD'ing Moonshine for about a week and a half without any complaints. I am not going to give you a good basis of comparison because in addition to the engine I also changed out the transmission, so I'm relearning how to drive this truck ( again ). I can tell you that there is a noticeable difference in usable torque and it pulls harder up to 2500rpm than my 2F did up to 3500rpm. The power curve is pretty close to the same so it drives pretty similarly, the 4BT just has more power. The 2F, at least in my eyes, was built like a diesel in terms of power and longevity, with the difference being it runs on gasoline.

3. Complexity. The 4BT is really just as complex as a desmogged 2F. They're both pushrod motors that are timed via a gearset on the front of the motor. The carb and distributor on a 2F is replaced with an injection pump and injectors on a 4BT. The injection pump seems to be about as difficult to rebuild as an Aisin carb. The 4BT needs three wires to start, the 2F a couple more than that, but relatively speaking, they are about equal complexity levels in my opinion.

When you start talking about power improvements is when the 4BT becomes a whole lot simpler. You can get crazy if you want in P&P the head, aftermarket camshaft, the works, but none of that is necessary to get 250hp out of this motor. Turn a couple of screws on the IP and you'll get up to ~150hp ( from 105hp ) for free. Change a turbo and get an aftermarket fuel pin and you should be close to 200hp. Get new injectors on top of that and you're well over 200hp. Try doing that with a 2F without spending $4k.

4. Range. This is where the 4BT excels over the 2F. I don't have my speedo hooked up yet but after driving for a week, I've burned what seems to be about 1/8 tank of fuel. With comparable driving habits and the 2F, I'd have burned 1/4 to 1/3 of a tank by now. Take that with a large grain of salt because I don't have speedo hooked up, but it seems to be more efficient to me. Long trips will become immediately cheaper as a result of a a 4BT swap. That's offset by the increased cost of the truck, but 60s are pretty cheap to come by these days anyway.

If we ever meet up I'll have you drive Moonshine so you can make a decision as to whether or not you want a 4BT.

Damn, I'm surprised that the engine didn't turn off at that low RPM. I run between 850 and 950.

I also adjust the RPM's up in the summer (almost year round) to compensate for the AC compressor kicking on.

That seems awfully high to me. I'll try the 700rpm out over the next week or so. When I turn up the fuel I'll look into adjusting the idle setting again, but this morning's drive to work was good.

Sure that's what the service manual says but many of us have bumped the idle up which has helped reduce vibs. Plus many of us are not following the service manual for fueling or timing so at this point it's really just a necessity for when you have to crack the motor open. If you'd be willing to do an experiment and bump the idle to 850+ I'm interested to hear of your results, especially with a bum injector (of course idle will rise when increasing the power screw anyways). If it sucks it's easily returned to 700.

Sorry, no memory of the bearing number but it's on the bearing itself and I think I tried calling a bearing house to see if they could find a replacement. At this point I can't remember if they could or not (potentially this is in my thread somewhere, probably in the later half but it may be faster to pull yours than look through my thread with no pic references yet). It's a deeper bearing than what we're used to.

Also true, none of the settings used are what the manual says. At 700rpm there is just the slightest shudder coming from the motor. Maybe that's because of my harmonic balancer? I'll play with the idle again next week for you.

I'll do a bit of research and post up the info on an idler bearing replacement.

The 4bt is superior to the 2f in every way, but especially fuel mileage. I'm not kidding when I say you should be able to double the fuel mileage you get now, if not more, depending on the way you tune it.

I don't know about emissions for CA, that could be a problem. You will have to ask around for that.

The rebuild is actually very easy as long as you are very careful about labeling parts and following the manual for torque specs and such. You can get an overhaul kit for around $700 that will include new pistons, rings, bearings, valve seals, gaskets, etc...

You will love the results unless you are looking for Lexus sound quality. Think skid-steer. But it's a good, diesel, loud.

I couldn't agree more with you Wyo. While the 4BT isn't for everyone, I couldn't be happier with my decision. Easy to rebuild, easy to get lots of power, very fuel efficient. I can't speak to the sound yet as my exhaust is 3' long, but it is definitely quieter than my 2F with open headers. Close in volume to the 2F, when the 2F had headers and a 2.5" system with a flowmaster 40.