Yes, it's been great when I'm not breaking axles. It seems people are switching from West Texas Offroad to Redhead.
Builds Meet “Marge” our new Piggy
- Thread starter jestlurnin
- Start date
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Yeah, really. I'm still healing from that stunt, mentally and financially.
When I first bought my pig I was being lazy and didn't want to do the research myself so I took the advice on this web forum and bought a popular lift kit at the time. I was told that several people have had great success installing that kit so that's exactly what I did, install a lift kit "no shims" and it was the worst driving vehicle I've ever sat behind.
After months of dicking around someone mentioned the "baby step" of adding a couple of degree shim and that made it a little bit better but still not good. I eventually went and had the front end alignment checked and found that even with the shim I had somewhere around 1° of total caster. I did briefly try 4° shims but like you mentioned pinion angle was terrible and they really were still not enough so I eventually built a new front end with the balls turned like you mentioned.
I'm not here trying to popo on anyone's parade and everybody should explore their own options and do what works best for them, I'm just trying to save someone the time and energy that I spent doing it wrong if they're willing to listen.
I guess what I'm trying to do is let people know everything you read on the internet isn't always true and you should always confirm what you read when it comes to something like front suspension geometry!
RUSH55
SILVER Star
This topic definitely requires its own thread. Not only are there many opinions on the matter, but also a lot of hard factual information that needs to become common knowledge that is easily found and accessible (on this site).
It’s not only people on the internet who might misguide but also manufacturers of ‘lift kits’.
I find that the majority of what any given person "knows" consists of advertising copy, regurgitated, out of context and in incomplete sentences.
A thread of hard facts and real numbers would be helpful, but it would get buried in no time flat by the "look what I bought" threads.
A thread of hard facts and real numbers would be helpful, but it would get buried in no time flat by the "look what I bought" threads.
I've tried....
I've posted links to actual information on setting up suspension, data on what our pigs came from the factory with versus what throwing aftermarket parts on changes..
I've encouraged people to fact check the information I've posted...
I've encouraged people to add their own facts..
What we continue to get down here is the old guard telling the new guys this is the way we've always done it!!!!
I'm not opposed to letting the new guys learn the hard way we just need to all agree so I stop wasting time posting alternatives.
What are you talking about?
bobm
WTF, WTF, WTF!!!!
What I'm talking about is this forum is primarily made up of enthusiasts, not expert mechanics.
They know what product they bought and that they put it on and it looks good, and they can tell you what the advertising told them about it, but in terms of having a greater context for how cars fail and what actually fixes them, these aren't the folks.
These are enthusiasts primarily, those who know how to set up custom suspension, are probably employed doing so, not posting on mud, giving hard earned knowledge to people who don't have the experience or equipment to use it.
So I'm agreeing with you that a master thread that describes the types of suspension systems and how their geometry differs and what sorts of effects various choices have on a factual bassis, would be a good sticky thread.
People need to get out of the mindset that they can bolt on whatever part for instantly higher performance, and into the mindset of data acquisition and performance quantification...
That's what winning race teams do.
So I post a reasonable amount, but read almost every new post that comes up. Whenever there is a useful intervention, I usually log that away in my head or put it on the to do list for whatever I am working on. @J Mack, your posts that come from your depth of experience I think dwarfs what many experts can do. And you helped me specifically through the switch to the hydraulic TOB, my powewr steering and I am sure many other bits.
I had some bits on the pig that I was at one point willing to pay my kids red seal mechanic friend to do, he seemed keen, until I told him what all is in the pig - the moment the work veered off of what was in the book, he was done. So too was the bilstein rep I called when trying to sort shock valving. Where I live especially, i don't have access to trained professionals, hell, we don't even have a muffler shop. This site is all I need usually - so pls keep posting for the silent majority who appreciate it.
(@trainbufftony I don't think you were suggesting anything confrontational, just getting some facts up - but the thread seemed to be taking a turn)
- Thread starter
- #432
Is there a shop in the PNW you guys would trust to do a cut and turn?
Did you take your pig to an alignment shop and get a printout yet?
That is the best place to start!
tucker74
Moderator
I know a lot of enthusiasts who are (or have been) on this forum and shared a wealth of expert knowledge. That comes from experience, trial and error and caring enough to guide others. I’ve seen a lot of specialist shops that don’t know their way around a 40 yr old suspension. To each is own, this isn’t a place of flashy nonsense like some of the newer rig forums. We’re all just trying to keep these rare beasts going and have fun. /end rant.
@jestlurnin
This is the order I would do it in.
Take the Pig to an alignment shop get a printout and see how bad it is.
Caster should be +3° to +4.5° for all around driving and can go a bit more but that can cause other issues if you’re not careful so let’s stay safe and keep it under 4.5°.
If you are in the +1° or so then try the caster shim method and see how it drives, it’s cheap and easy but if you are starting in the minus caster range then a cut and turn is a great option as the shim isn’t likely to be enough to get you where you need to be.
Either way the alignment shop printout is great information for the shop that will help you rectify the problem, an off-road shop that can do your fab work isn’t likely to have an alignment rack but they can set you pig on level ground and check what they have as a starting point and know how far they need to go from there based off your printout to get to your final desired number.
Good luck!
A modern pickup like my Ram with a straight axle front is asking for 4.8° +/- 0.50° of caster just for comparison, a little bit apples and oranges but you get the idea of what modern vehicles are doing now.
This is the order I would do it in.
Take the Pig to an alignment shop get a printout and see how bad it is.
Caster should be +3° to +4.5° for all around driving and can go a bit more but that can cause other issues if you’re not careful so let’s stay safe and keep it under 4.5°.
If you are in the +1° or so then try the caster shim method and see how it drives, it’s cheap and easy but if you are starting in the minus caster range then a cut and turn is a great option as the shim isn’t likely to be enough to get you where you need to be.
Either way the alignment shop printout is great information for the shop that will help you rectify the problem, an off-road shop that can do your fab work isn’t likely to have an alignment rack but they can set you pig on level ground and check what they have as a starting point and know how far they need to go from there based off your printout to get to your final desired number.
Good luck!
A modern pickup like my Ram with a straight axle front is asking for 4.8° +/- 0.50° of caster just for comparison, a little bit apples and oranges but you get the idea of what modern vehicles are doing now.
bobm
WTF, WTF, WTF!!!!
Mine has Peroni degree's 
. Always pointed twards da 
. Always pointed twards da 
Great group in here, lots with very good knowledge to share…it can be tough to find a path forward on some Mods based on supplier “bolt on” advertising for sure.
There are also some other considerations on “how far” to go with certain Mods, very few Pigs will see high speed off roading at this point in their lives so starts the compromise begins on what is good enough.
Not everyone will do the ultimate build.
There are also some other considerations on “how far” to go with certain Mods, very few Pigs will see high speed off roading at this point in their lives so starts the compromise begins on what is good enough.
Not everyone will do the ultimate build.
- Thread starter
- #438
@J Mack appreciate the clear path forward. When I first did all the work on Marge to get her up and running I called around to about say 5 or so alignment shops and only 1 said they could do it and they actually couldn’t do it because the tech that knew how to run the machine had just had back surgery….
Is this something that I can trust Les Schwab or Point S with? Those are the 2 bigger tire shops you see all over the place in Oregon. If not I’ll continue searching for the old school alignment shop that can help.
Is this something that I can trust Les Schwab or Point S with? Those are the 2 bigger tire shops you see all over the place in Oregon. If not I’ll continue searching for the old school alignment shop that can help.
Yes.
We are assuming they wont be able to correct your caster issue and you might mention you really just need a printout to see what your next step is. These kids working at Point S have never seen a straight axle on leaf springs you might scare them if you tell them you expect them to adjust it.
- Thread starter
- #440
Love this forum. I’m going to point S. Every since Les Schwab was sold maybe about a decade ago I’ve been les and les impressed…
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