fireball
SILVER Star
I own one third of a 62. My life is complete!!!
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- Thread starter Wayneraintree
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I own one third of a 62. My life is complete!!!
Complete or complicated?
FWIW, my newly installed Orion has popped out of gear twice now in 2 weeks... once in high and once in low, both times under heavy engine braking. I’ve been very unimpressed with AA over the last few months... I had to go back several times to get parts that weren’t included in the kit. We also discovered some parts that did not look like they were finished properly. And they just don’t care...
Would go nicely with my '66 Mustang Coupe. Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of cash - or garage space - at the moment.
@BROKEROB1, pull the shift boot and check the clearance around the shifter to trans cover. Maybe watch it as you load the drivetrain using the cluch and brake. Use reverse to simulate deceleration/engine braking.
Look to see as the engine/trans mounts flex if the shifter may be contacting the tunnel and helping it jump out of gear.
Very curious to see an outcome to this Rob. I'm leaning heavily toward an Orion right now but you're the second person this month who has mentioned the popping out of gear issue resurfacing. There's another guy over in the ORION sticky on the 40-series forum. I'm starting to wonder if I should just rebuild the 2.33:1 3-speed case that came with the H41 and be happy with 46:1 gearing.
On a similar note - you all know I don't mess around much with black trails (unless @YotaFun is leading the green trail ride) but assuming this thing becomes a blue trail wheeler in the future (and maybe an occasional black) would I be happy with 46:1 gearing or will I really miss the 80ish:1 ratio the Orion would provide?
In a perfect world, 3.7 diffs, a H41, and an Orion would net me about 70:1 and probably be an almost perfect combination of streetable and trailable.
In a perfect world, 3.7 diffs, a H41, and an Orion would net me about 70:1 and probably be an almost perfect combination of streetable and trailable.
That‘s my current set up, Rick, and it’s awesome (except when it pops out of gear). I am sure I’ll get it sorted... just more time and money! The 3.7s are a really nice improvement cruising as well!
I have to say, Rob @matzell was a huge help in getting me sorted... even hooked me up with a guy selling the 60 axles I scavenged for the 3.7s, Aisin hubs, etc.
It is so nice and slow... no throttle needed!
I have to say, Rob @matzell was a huge help in getting me sorted... even hooked me up with a guy selling the 60 axles I scavenged for the 3.7s, Aisin hubs, etc.
It is so nice and slow... no throttle needed!
I did some math. I know omg!
For reference on my 4runner with axle gears 5.29's, crawl box 2.28, t case 4.77 and a 1st gear of 3.83
High is 20:1
2.28 low 46:1
4.77 low is 96:1
Low low is 220:1
That 4.7 low @ 96:1 is my go to ratio for most moderately technical areas. I use this on blue trails alot, hill climbs and rock crawling as well as hill decents.
46:1 is only good for green trails. I have to become a throttle jockey if I need to use this on blue trails. Blacks don't try it's just too fast.
Well right now I’m at around 28:1 with everything stock, which is even fast for green trails - you’ve driven it, you probably agree.
Anything I can do to crash into things more slowly is a step in the right direction. The question is, if I dump $600 into a 3speed case rebuild, for 46:1 will I feel like it was money wasted and I wind up shelling out $2k for an Orion in the end anyway.
That said if AA’s quality is really heading south, I might not be thrilled either way...
On a similar note, since this is the buy/sell thread - still trying to find a 4-speed case someone doesn’t want as a donor if I decide to go this route. Condition of gears/shafts/bearings irrelevant.
brian
SILVER Star
Are you sure you already do not have a 3spd case?
They were oe till april ish of 75.
I bought my truck with a blown transfer case - it had sheared the high-low clutch. Assuming that was the original, it was the 4-speed "shell" with additional gusseting. No idea what the gearing was. I gave the whole thing to reddingcruiser for the cost of shipping about 5 years ago as an Orion donor. If only I'd known then that I'd be considering one now!
The case I replaced it with is out of a 76 and is definitely the 4 speed design, complete with the 1.9:1 low range. I hesitate to use it as a donor since it's very freshly rebuilt (2 years and 2000mi ago).
I have a 3-speed case with the 16-spline transition-year gear and 2.3:1 ratio that came bolted to the back of the H41 I picked up. The output shaft on the transmission is toast and the teeth on the input gear are loose as a result. The output shaft and bushings are substantially worn, so if I were to run this case, It would get all the "case savers" from my 4-speed case, and a complete rebuild complete with new input gear (still available, surprisingly) and a new shaft/good used bushings from a donor gear set. last time I spoke with Georg I'd be "all in" for around $635-$650 for all of the above.
Ultimately, I'd like to, at the very least, rebuild the 3 speed case and sell it if go the Orion route but I don't know that I could sell it for much more than it would cost to rebuild. I see rebuilt cases for sale on e-bay for $1800-1900 which seems to be in line with what Specter wants for one, but 1. I'm an amateur and 2. I don't know that they actually ever SELL at that price - I suspect these folks are dreaming. If I could get $800 out of it and a good home I'd consider rebuilding it - but that'd only cover parts, I'd be rebuilding it for fun. I'd be willing to bet I couldn't get $500 for it though.
That I know - it would be getting a nose cone ring and a case saver. This truck doesn’t get abused THAT badly, but it is a point of concern. The Orion seems like an all around bomb-proof case, with the later (quieter) gears, but it’s pricey and it has been getting some bad press lately!
I’ve got time to figure it out. Still need to rebuild the H41 but eventually I’ll need to figure out what I’m attaching it to.
Stumpalama
Forum Junkie
That is disappointing to hear about AA and the Orion. I know in the past, it was something to do with the detent ball/spring not having enough pressure or some play in the gear setup inside the tcase so the gear moves forward and pushes the shift collar out of gear on deceleration. It is very important to set the Orion up properly paying exacting attention to the tolerances.
I would also make sure that your linkage arms are proper lengths so that the arm travels far enough to lock into the detent.
I think there is something going on with the setup, not the design.
Read these threads: Orion: still popping out of gear! Lets form a club!!!
forum.ih8mud.com
I would also make sure that your linkage arms are proper lengths so that the arm travels far enough to lock into the detent.
I think there is something going on with the setup, not the design.
Read these threads: Orion: still popping out of gear! Lets form a club!!!
T-Case hi/low detent spring
forum.ih8mud.com
@Stumpalama - over in the 40 forum Orion sticky there’s a guy who was saying the output shaft was out of tolerance (all new parts). It was too loose. He caught it during assembly and sent it back to AA, hasn’t gotten it fixed yet because they’re operations are limited by Covid. Gears loose on the output shaft could certainly cause them to pop out of gear, I suspect.
I'd like to know the details of the "output shaft being out of tolerance". Gears loose on the output shaft? Too much difference between the gear(bushing) ID and shaft OD? To me more likely too much end play on the gears and could very well indeed lend itself to a popping out of gear problem. The side to side clearances on the output shaft gears need to be checked and adjusted properly to keep everything kosher.
No matter what, Rob's problems with AA are troublesome. Personally I believe the Orion setup is a great way to go provided that the parts kit contents supplied by AA is accurately machined and complete with everything you need.
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