Lift install halted due to KDSS (1 Viewer)

[mwm4211]

So, I finally scheduled an appt with Slee to install an OME Stock Load 2" Lift Kit. This, with my soon to be installed Falken AT3 (275 70 18) tires, will allow me to tackle a few more challenging Moab trails during our family trip late March. An hour after dropping my rig off I received a call from Slee saying that my KDSS valves are frozen and they cannot do the lift. They suggested I bring the vehicle to a dealer to sort the problem out. After breaking a 5mm hex off and applying some penetrating oil, they didn’t feel comfortable monkeying around with it any further. Slee also left a stuck/broken 5mm hex in the bolt, further complicating matters.


So, I need to get the bolts unfrozen before Slee will install the lift.


I have sprayed the bolts with PB Power Blaster and PB In-Force and cleaned with a wire brush / dental tools. This weekend I’ll try tapping gently with a hammer, hit with wire wheel as well as applying some mild heat while continuing liberal applications of the penetrating oils. I also ordered some Kroil penetrating oil, just I case. I have yet to apply any force to the hex bolts assuming that the penetrating oil needs time to work. I’ll try tomorrow.


What else should I be trying? pneumatic hammer drill? (yes only 3 turns)

I’ll also need to remove the broken hex bit. Recommendations?

I believe I have read all posts related to this. Great info.


Side note: Thanks to all who make MUD what it is. This forum has a wealth of info super useful to a newbie LC owner. I hope to attend the Breck event this summer.

 

[Willy beamin]

Hit it eith the wire brush to remove excess scaling around the hex head. i have no comments on the broken hex

 

[OverLand Cruisers]

Weld some sort of extension or nut to the offending bolt to get it out?
Then replace both with new ones.

 

[linuxgod]

Screw extractor for the hex head? OR just drill it? Seems like if you could get the head to reverse slightly it would probably fall out. It's jsut stuck because it turned very slightly but the hex screw didn't

 

[TonyP]

Screw extractor for the hex head? OR just drill it? Seems like if you could get the head to reverse slightly it would probably fall out. It's jsut stuck because it turned very slightly but the hex screw didn't

The problem is its a hex not a screw. You could drill a hole in the center, screw in a self-tapping screw and hopefully pull the hex bit out. Shouldn't be bad, certainly not as bad as removing a broken tap. That'll ruin your week.

As for getting the valves to turn, head up home depot and get a cheap torch to heat it up. Just be careful not to heat it too much or to blast it with fire after you spray it with oil. Your day will go from bad to dead very quickly.

An impact drill of some sorts might be helpful just be careful of further stripping or over loosening.

Kinda sucks they left you with a mess to deal with.

 

[40Man]

Weld some sort of extension or nut to the offending bolt to get it out?
Then replace both with new ones.

Problem is, you can't remove them without depressurizing the KDSS. Sucks they returned it with the stuck hex. I'd ask them to get it out.

 

[OverLand Cruisers]

Problem is, you can't remove them without depressurizing the KDSS. Sucks they returned it with the stuck hex. I'd ask them to get it out.

Ah ha!! Duh, shows my lack of KDSS knowledge.

 

[TonyP]

Sucks they returned it with the stuck hex. I'd ask them to get it out.

That's where I'd start. Not really cool to give a customer a vehicle back in worse shape unless everyone was aware of the risks.

 

[TeCKis300]

Few things to try:

Broken Hex
1) Instead of drilling, first try slotting with a dremel. That might give you enough grip to unbind the broken off hex driver and it'll fall out. If you need to, slotting slightly into the KDSS screw may help for more depth.

2) Heat is okay, but keep it real gentle. Unless someone else knows for sure, there might be rubber seals in the kdss mechanism

Seized KDSS valve screws
3) With stuck fasteners, you can try screwing in along with out as it might move things enough to unseize.

4) Do start with the penetrants, dental picks, and wire brushes first. I'd try #3 also along these.

5) There are old school manual hammer impacts that can be handy for stubborn bolts like this, where you can have more fine control.

6) If none of the above works, and before resorting to more drastic measures - where the KDSS screws are corroded and seized are likely at the surface interface. I'd get a 3/32" Diamond Head Sharp Tip point dremel bit and run it around the edge of the screw. The surface threads aren't a big deal. But you are exposing more surface area for rust to penetrate next time around.

 

[Markuson]

I once dremeled a hole in a broken hunk of metal pin stuck in a board (part of an antique toy I didn't want to wreck), and then made the hole slightly wider INSIDE with a small ball grinder dremel bit. Then slightly bent over the very end of a steel nail...got it in the hole just barely and it could grab the wider lip inside and pulled with pliers. Worked. Not sure in your case, but I'd rather dremel slowly that accidentally drill too wide. Or...start with a tiny drill, then dremel deeper and widen... I dunno. Just thinkin...

 

[Sandroad]

Great ideas above; I really don't have anything to add. But I got a good chuckle out of those SUPER skinny 175/70-18 tires you plan to install. You'll be able to slip the tires between the rocks instead of having to go over them.

 

[mark71]

Great ideas above; I really don't have anything to add. But I got a good chuckle out of those SUPER skinny 175/70-18 tires you plan to install. You'll be able to slip the tires between the rocks instead of having to go over them.

That's for fuel efficiency.

 

[Markuson]

Great ideas above; I really don't have anything to add.
I got a good chuckle out of those SUPER skinny 175/70-18 tires you plan to install. You'll be able to slip the tires between the rocks instead of having to go over them.

surely a typo in his post, butits funny because where I grew up in Colombia, in South America, skinny tires were the things to have.
In some places where it rains 160 inches a year (like where I lived), there'd be an inch or two of gooey mud on top of dirt roads, but harder stuff in or two under. Skinnies cut past the goo and grabbed the hard stuff.

-Wide tires floated too much, stayed only on the goo. Bad.

Plus...they worked well for these guys!

 

[apinti]

In case your truck is still under warranty,

Contemplating myself a suspension upgrade, last summer I tried to work loose the screws in my KDSS valve. My valve was not looking any worst than the one above. I spent about 2 weeks trying everything I could think off or I could find on the internet. I broke 5 or 6 5mm allen tips and I even shopped on line for the US made ones. Although I also broke 2 of them, they lasted longer. I sprayed and hammered the screws for at least a week, used the torch to the point that I was not comfortable to use it any longer and I also used an impact wrench. No luck.

In my youth I was an engineer in a foreign country merchant marine. I've seen rusted screws and how to deal with them. After about two weeks I had to admit to myself that there will be no way to go any further without stripping the bolt head. My car was still under warranty, but whatever argument I was hopping to be able to make at the dealership would have been useless with a striped screw head.

So, I told the dealer that I would like to replace my shocks, but that would not be possible because my KDSS valve is stuck. I offered to pay them to loosen up my screws. They call the master tech and of course his first argument was that he wont be able to do it if I tripped the heads. I assured him that was not the case and I politely asked him to get his breaker bar and his meanest 5mm allen and give it a try. He did. He pulled on that bar to the point that we could both see the allen tip twisting, and than he agreed that they wont come out.

They replaced the valve under warranty without any fuss.

I realize that might not be the case with you, and I apologize for the long post, but I just wanted to make a point that those screws might not loosen up that easily. I sprayed, prayed and tapped for at least 10 days. It didn't work for me, but I really hope that you will have a better luck.

Best Regards,

 

[mwm4211]

surely a typo in his post, butits funny because where I grew up in Colombia, in South America, skinny tires were the things to have.
In some places where it rains 160 inches a year (like where I lived), there'd be an inch or two of gooey mud on top of dirt roads, but harder stuff in or two under. Skinnies cut past the goo and grabbed the hard stuff.

-Wide tires floated too much, stayed only on the goo. Bad.

Plus...they worked well for these guys!

View attachment 1422635 View attachment 1422637

Yes, fat fingers typo. Tire size will be 275 70 18

 

[sleeoffroad]

I just want to put our side of the issue. The customer was informed about the broken Allen key in the valve. We are obviously aware of the KDSS issues, so we check if we can loosen those before we proceed with a suspension install. If we find that we can not loosen them, we will inform the customer and we do not charge the customer.

In this case, it was a brand new Snap-on Allen Key that broke. We apply penetrating fluid before we proceed and we have been successful in getting some of the screws out when rusted. In this case, it was obviously so stuck that it broke the key without moving.

So why did we not remove the key? We felt that there was no way to remove it without doing damage to the valve. We will not apply excessive heat to it, since that would compromise the fluid in the system as well as the seals and o-rings that are in the valve. We have never taken one apart, so we don't have the details on what is inside and where the components are situated.

We felt it is in the best interest to the customer to leave the vehicle operational vs. running the risk of damaging the valve and then have the vehicle inoperable.

The Allen key is only 5mm, to drill it to get anything of substantial size screwed into the remaining piece is not really feasible. You would have to drill up to 4mm into a hardened material and you then run the risk of not being 100% centered and thus damaging the sides of the Allen screw in any case.

We could try to get it out, as long as the customer is OK with possibility of the valve being damaged beyond use.

Corrosion is a major issue that shops deal with. We try to be fair in how we deal with it but we also have to minimize liability when we work on a $1000 valve assembly.

 

[sleeoffroad]

That's where I'd start. Not really cool to give a customer a vehicle back in worse shape unless everyone was aware of the risks.

Tony, we did not leave the customer with a mess. The mess is due to the corrosion (pre existing). If we broke the valve, then with whom would the liability have been?

 

[Sandroad]

surely a typo in his post, butits funny because where I grew up in Colombia, in South America, skinny tires were the things to have.
In some places where it rains 160 inches a year (like where I lived), there'd be an inch or two of gooey mud on top of dirt roads, but harder stuff in or two under. Skinnies cut past the goo and grabbed the hard stuff.

-Wide tires floated too much, stayed only on the goo. Bad.

Plus...they worked well for these guys!

View attachment 1422635 View attachment 1422637

My first 4WD was a '46 Jeep that came with 6.00X16 tires. And that tread pattern works great in mud, for the reasons you note. I sure would like to have one of those amphibious jeeps.

 

[TonyP]

Tony, we did not leave the customer with a mess. The mess is due to the corrosion (pre existing). If we broke the valve, then with whom would the liability have been?

I don't want to start an argument in the dude's thread but I respectful disagree.

 

[ekberger]

I empathize with the OP's dilemma, many of us weekend wrenchers have been there. My question goes to those of us who have KDSS valves that have not reached this point. I have no familiarity with these valves or systems, however as stated in an earlier post, removing the plugs completely will lead to depressurization of the system. However, would it be wise to do some inspection and perhaps preventive maintenance to avoid this unfortunate situation in the first place. For example, could one back out the plugs a little of non compromised valves and apply an anti-seize compound to the threads? I'm just trying to figure out if this is wise preventive maintenance.