LC 250 & GX550 Picture Thread (10 Viewers)

[Diff Kraken]

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[Zill]

You guys realize that manufacturers can tune the door thunk, right? So how it sounds is not a function of how well built the car is but rather how much time they spent tuning the sound.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/the-science-of-car-doors-slamming-toyota-hyundai-porsche-cadillac/

That doesn’t even make any sense. Why would you purposefully tune a car door to sound like a tin can? That doesn’t inspire confidence in what you are buying.

They cut weight from the door and as a result, it simply does not have a nice thud anymore.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Is Cangaru Racing going to replace the 200 with a 250 next year in the Baja?

Nope. We'll be in the 200 (570) and Jaos LX600

 

[M1911]

They cut weight from the door and as a result, it simply does not have a nice thud anymore.

You have no evidence that that is true. As the article I pointed you to clearly states, the sound a door makes when you close it can be tuned by the manufacturer. So the sound itself is not indicative of the quality of the vehicle. Rather, it is dependent upon how the manufacturer tuned the sound of the door. They may have tuned it well or not so well. But the sound itself simply tells you nothing about the strength or quality of the vehicle itself.

 

[Zill]

You have no evidence that that is true. As the article I pointed you to clearly states, the sound a door makes when you close it can be tuned by the manufacturer. So the sound itself is not indicative of the quality of the vehicle. Rather, it is dependent upon how the manufacturer tuned the sound of the door. They may have tuned it well or not so well. But the sound itself simply tells you nothing about the strength or quality of the vehicle itself.

Your logic makes no sense. Why would any manufacturer tune a car door to make it sound like a cheap tin can? It sounds that way because of thinner sheet metal and less weight.

Or you’re just saying Toyota did not spend the time to do a good job on the design of the vehicle. Then that begs the question, where else did they cut corners in the design process?

You know it’s bad when a car reviewer clearly points it out. They rarely give any criticism on review vehicles because they don’t want to bite the hand that feeds them.

 

[Patassa]

"Toyota has implemented a standard door structure as part of our TNGA architecture," a senior engineering manager at Toyota Motor North America R&D told us. "The resonance of the structure and interaction of mechanical parts is tuned to achieve a solid thud sound and minimize any noises that stand out.

"[We use] a variety of prediction methods and simulation tools to develop and ensure related parts perform at a component level and all work in harmony as a system," they continued. "Then our engineers and technicians further tune the response in our pre-production phases to ensure we reach the high bar set by our TNGA standards."

Translation: They try to achieve a consistent sound using a standard structure and modeling/simulations across their platforms. They refine the models in pre-production depending on the results they are getting.

What this can't do is predict someone's subjective interpretation of that sound they were targeting. It may sound cheap and tinny to me, or sound solid to you, probably depends on our personal reference points. Their modeling also can't predict or control poor assembly or at least variable assembly that's bound to happen. That's a whole different thing to control.

 

[Patassa]

Alot of our complaints about modern vehicles come down to CAFE and similar regulations. Pay attention next time you vote.

Over time, the standards have been updated and tightened. For example, under the Obama administration, significant increases were set for the years 2012 through 2025, targeting an average fuel economy of 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025. However, these targets were later revised by the Trump administration, which argued that such stringent regulations would increase vehicle costs and impact consumer choice.

The CAFE standards aim not only to reduce fuel consumption but also to decrease greenhouse gas emissions, promote energy independence, and encourage the automotive industry to innovate in the area of fuel-efficient technologies."

 

[Navyator]

Alot of our complaints about modern vehicles come down to CAFE and similar regulations. Pay attention next time you vote.

Skip to video below if you don't care about CAFE standards or regulations.

I do agree. It's one thing to say "All vehicles should have XX fuel economy" which sounds great on the surface but a very different thing to make that happen while balancing consumer needs/demands. I think THAT is why the cost gets driven up. The companies have to figure out a way to meet the MPG while also providing the hp/tq, clearance, size, and looks not to mention ever more stringent safety standards. There are a million arguments within each of these areas that could be made on what we as a society think are "reasonable" and I think it's probably next to impossible to find the perfect solution. For example, I hear a lot of comments about the cyber truck and its sharp corners or full-size pickups and their massive grills being this huge danger to pedestrians. I'm not saying that's not true, but do we have the data to back-up that these specific issues are actually resulting in a large enough problem to put money toward mandating controls? Car's freaking brake for themselves when a pedestrian crosses in front of them for pete's sake! At what point have we sufficiently reduced risk to the point where it's not worth the financial pain to continue forcing the number nearer to zero?

Also, here's a video from TFL that shows the poverty pack 250 a bit better than what I've seen (for thread posterity purposes )

 

[rk1679]

We are hoping to do a similar event on the east coast soon. East Coast dealers should start getting the 250 and 550's soon if they haven't already.

Hopefully a similar event in Colorado?

 

[Jeremy556]

My 5th gen 4runner doors sounded similar. A piece of MLV tape on the inner side of the door skins make it sound nice. It's like 0.5lb per door and maybe $20 retail cost. Not sure why Toyota can't do that... On the other hand, over 10 years of hard use, every one of those doors still works perfectly, including window regulators and lock actuators.

 

[Jetboy]

Your logic makes no sense. Why would any manufacturer tune a car door to make it sound like a cheap tin can? It sounds that way because of thinner sheet metal and less weight.

Or you’re just saying Toyota did not spend the time to do a good job on the design of the vehicle. Then that begs the question, where else did they cut corners in the design process?

You know it’s bad when a car reviewer clearly points it out. They rarely give any criticism on review vehicles because they don’t want to bite the hand that feeds them.

I'd be surprised if the models have different sheet metal thickness. The GX and LC250 likely use the same door skins. I'd bet that the 4Runners also use the same coils of sheetmetal to stamp the door skins. They may weigh less due to less damping material in the doors though. But the sound of the door closing really doesn't have any relationship to the door's quality of build. It sounds the way the engineers want it to sound. It may be the inverse - it's a lot harder to build a light weight door than a heavy one. It may very well be engineered on the LC to sound lighter than the GX to give a premium feel to the GX when cross shopping. Toyota has a history of sandbagging its lower priced models.

 

[Oakleyguy]

Speaking of door sounds, here is a video I recorded of a pre-production GX550 OT vs the LX600:

 

[TheLCProject]

Speaking of door sounds, here is a video I recorded of a pre-production GX550 OT vs the LX600:

LX600 >> GX550

 

[Oakleyguy]

My 2014 LC200 for good measure:

 

[Zill]

My 2014 LC200 for good measure:

The LC 200 sounds like an absolute tank in this video haha.

 

[Phillyd2]

I’ve read this 2.5 times and damned if it makes any sense whatsoever.

"Toyota has implemented a standard door structure as part of our TNGA architecture," a senior engineering manager at Toyota Motor North America R&D told us. "The resonance of the structure and interaction of mechanical parts is tuned to achieve a solid thud sound and minimize any noises that stand out.

"[We use] a variety of prediction methods and simulation tools to develop and ensure related parts perform at a component level and all work in harmony as a system," they continued. "Then our engineers and technicians further tune the response in our pre-production phases to ensure we reach the high bar set by our TNGA standards."

So, they design and build the car based on whatever criteria there is, with safety and function undoubtedly the top criteria especially the doors. Then the door sounds like it does so what exactly do they / can they really "tune" to make it sound much different?

 

[Jetboy]

I’ve read this 2.5 times and damned if it makes any sense whatsoever.



So, they design and build the car based on whatever criteria there is, with safety and function undoubtedly the top criteria especially the doors. Then the door sounds like it does so what exactly do they / can they really "tune" to make it sound much different?

I think the tuning of the sound is done through a few mechanisms.

The latch mechanism and its internal parts can likely be adjusted/modified to dampen the closure differently - like a soft close drawer vs a normal one as well as the sound of the strike plate. The hinge or that little spring loaded door closer mechanism in the hinge area - I'm guessing they can adjust damping of the door closing with that device. The weather stripping - the shape and density of the material will change the way the door shuts. The dampening material applied to the door metal outer skin will change the sound a lot. The interior door card can do a lot of sound dampening on the inside and sound absorbing - and also a firmer door card is important to how the interior door feels. A flimsy interior door handle never feels very good. Adjusting the cabin external air vents to manage the air pressure inside as the door closes and/or the same internally to the door or by slightly rolling down the window like some brands do - lots of options to do the air pressure adjustment, but they tend to all do about the same thing.

I think there's a handfull of components that can adjust to give the ideal door close feel and sound to make it feel "premium" that are not directly related to the mass of the door.

At the end of the day for me - I give zero F's what it sounds like as long as it closes reliably for the life of the vehicle and seals well.

 

[Teebo]

I'm still struggling with the "Prado" hate on the 250, but I will admit that my only LC experience is in an 80 series. The 250 has twice the hp/tq as my 91 and tows more. What makes my 80 series a full on land cruiser and this a prado? Just because it COULD be a 200 series but isn't? Frankly I think "nomenclature" is taken a bit too seriously as gospel in the Cruiser world. I'm not against reasonable criticism or differing personal preferences, but arguments about "opinion suppression" or "Toyota talking points" seem to me like fluff that doesn't really have concrete support to back it. Not trying to be abrasive or anything, I've just seen comments like that even levied at Mud members (like @cruiseroutfit ) even when they have actual hands-on experience and we're all looking at videos, pictures, and spec sheets online.

Call me naive, but I trust the reviewers and will give it a chance in person when it's available.

Everyone hates on the new thing even before they see or drive one. As far as I'm concerned, the FJ80 was the last land cruiser in the US until the LC250. The 100 and on look like garbage to me.
Edmunds has tested and reviewed the new LC250 and said this. "The Land Cruiser is now so well-rounded and competent on and off-road we'd be tempted to say it's the best one Americans have ever been able to buy. It's *that* good."

 

[hoot504]

Everyone hates on the new thing even before they see or drive one. As far as I'm concerned, the FJ80 was the last land cruiser in the US until the LC250. The 100 and on look like garbage to me.
Edmunds has tested and reviewed the new LC250 and said this. "The Land Cruiser is now so well-rounded and competent on and off-road we'd be tempted to say it's the best one Americans have ever been able to buy. It's *that* good."

I believe the PT cruiser also received some glowing reviews at launch. I bring this up to illustrate that most of the auto journalism industry is outright stupid and/or bought and paid for. Checking forums in 5+ years to read about the actual end-user experience and how these cars are holding up is infinitely more valuable than the sensationalist garbage quoted above.

 

[TheElegantFox]

The thumbnail on this is epic: