AlaskanWheeler
SILVER Star
Holley Sniper 2 barrel conversion
- Thread starter 74fj40
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I bought the basic sniper kit with no fuel kit as I had a pump and 3/8 delivery and return already. It’s recommended to have 3/8 return so there are no restrictions so that’s something to keep in mind. Also an intank pump is recommended but not necessary. I also had an air filter from the tbi setup, so that is something else you’d have to source.
Sniper kit-$850
90* and 45* -6an fittings-$20
Throttle linkage and misc clips-$50
Misc gaskets-$20
Cap, rotor, wires-$35
Misc loom,connectors, relay- $30
CAN cable for laptop tuning was $50 but I haven’t used it yet. I will though as I’d like to use a tablet for my gauges.
I’m sure I’m missing a few things, but I’m all in for about $1000-1100. It is truly worth every penny. It’s never run this well before.
I spent probably 2-3 hours on it a day for 1 week straight and had it running. There were a lot of small projects I did at the same time, mounting wiring, getting some other circuits run through the fuse box, mounting relays and a new remote power junction. Cleaning up fuel lines, relocating fuse box, etc. Since the sniper has an ecu built in, it really inspires you to keep everything else around it clean too.
I think an fj60 distributor probably has a better curve to it for fuel injection. Maybe @FJ40Jim can chime in on that. If I can score a good deal on one I will upgrade. But I’m still a broke dad going to college.
And fj60 distributor also would have the ability for timing control which I would highly recommend once the base fuel maps are dialed in. It seems a little complicated to figure out but can be done. Especially if you can get the timing maps from a good TBI chip.
At this point i only have about 50 miles on it, but I’m happier than ever with it!
Thanks for breaking out your prices and time. I’m also a “broke dad” but not in the college phase. Pretty cool to see the work you’ve put into your truck while juggling family and school.
I think I’ll start acquiring bits and pieces over the next 6-8months and plan for install in 10 months. Thanks again!
- Thread starter
- #63
There are several options with the sniper if your not using timing control, most popular is tach output on an HEI distributor or in my case negative side of the coil. When you do the initial setup with the handheld, you select how many cylinders and which type of input.
Not a problem. My wife has been pretty supportive so that helps. I am mastering life with little sleep! Thank god for coffee.
Looking forward to seeing your progress!
A heads up if anyone else is running the 4 barrel Sniper.
Holley is now selling a "progressive" throttle link for the 4 barrel. It changes the action of the 2 pairs of throttle butterflies to progressive from "all in" from the start. Makes throttle tip-in much more agreeable.
Just an FYI dudes.
Progressive Linkage makes Sniper EFI WAAAY Better
Holley is now selling a "progressive" throttle link for the 4 barrel. It changes the action of the 2 pairs of throttle butterflies to progressive from "all in" from the start. Makes throttle tip-in much more agreeable.
Just an FYI dudes.
Progressive Linkage makes Sniper EFI WAAAY Better
Any issues with the Sniper EFI as of yet? I will probably go this route by end of the year/beginning of next year time frame. It's on my short (and increasingly expensive) list anyhow.
- Thread starter
- #66
No issues yet. I have about 200 miles on it. There is still a ton of learning to.
@BrianSanDiego only once have I seen one of my fuel cells be at 45% learn otherwise everything is around 10%. About 18 miles of my commute to work I am able to just stay in 3rd/4th and cruise and different rpms. How long should I expect this to take? I’m still loving the smoothness of the motor. It’s quieter than ever too.
@BrianSanDiego only once have I seen one of my fuel cells be at 45% learn otherwise everything is around 10%. About 18 miles of my commute to work I am able to just stay in 3rd/4th and cruise and different rpms. How long should I expect this to take? I’m still loving the smoothness of the motor. It’s quieter than ever too.
I have been following this thread for a while, and have one basic question. Sometimes we do things just to do them. I have been running the Holley 350 I got from Downey, for years, and love it. I have run it on the old F engine, and on my current 2F
What are the benefits of this? Horsepower, torque, or what? If I am going to deal with increased complexity, there has to be a measurable benefit. Complexity doesn't bother me, but there has to be a benefit.
What are the benefits of this? Horsepower, torque, or what? If I am going to deal with increased complexity, there has to be a measurable benefit. Complexity doesn't bother me, but there has to be a benefit.
A carburetor does not self adjust fuel mixture for differing elevations, and does not have fuel dump out of the fuel bowl at steep inclines, the control of the fuel mixture is constantly being monitored by the computer and adjusted. Thus giving more power, increased fuel mileage, ease of adjustability, and better offroad performance. If timing control is added then the timing can be programmed for different load/rpm/throttle situations which also gives increased power and fuel mileage. But if you are happy with your current setup then I guess why would you think of changing it? I had a holley 350, and since I often drive in very different elevations, I had a lot of trouble with it. I did see some benefit from running a offroad float bowl and extended vent, but it still didn't do that great off road except for mild trails it was fine I guess for me.
The benefits of EFI vs a carb set up? EFI uses high pressure to inject the fuel vs carbs where the fuel is supplied at a lower pressure and drawn in, so fuel atomization. Carbs have valves, springs and metering screws that need to be tuned and jetted, these EFI systems self adjust on the fly based on inputs from an O2 sensor, MAP sensor, temp sensors and a throttle position sensor. As emissions got more strict, things were done to make the carbs run cleaner like add VSVs and carb warmers, carb cooling fans, etc. All things that probably dont work as they should 40+ years later. While we have chokes, EFI is much better for cold starts, which eases strain on your engine. While a throttle body EFI system is not "modern" in the way a port injection system would be, EFI makes an older engine run more like a modern equivalent.
These particular systems are self learning with their wide band O2 controller, so you dont need to be a computer wiz to tune them. They have a very simple controller and user interface. They are in 2 barrel sizes appropriate for F and 2F engines. And with the advances in electronics technology they have been able to shrink the ECU to the point that it is incorporated into the unit rather than some shoe box you need to hide. If you could set up a magnetic pick up dizzy you could theoretically do timing control (though I think you would have to put a Toyota gear on a GM dizzy to make that happen.) At the end of the day it is about getting your engine to run as well as it can and while plenty of carb'ed engines run great, they have limitations short of EFI's capabilities.
Well, unless someone has installed this and then put their truck in a dyno, no answer you receive will be 100% honest/accurate.
But, I would say that because this type of FE system allows the fuel curve to be adjusted continuously, automatically, and throughout the entire RPM range... I suspect that it would increase horsepower, torque, and fuel economy.
Never mind the fact that one with this system wouldn't need to retune at various elevations and with different seasons and other environmental conditions.
I mean, those are all the reasons why the industry went to electronic fuel injection to begin with, and hasn't gone back to carbuerated vehicles.
Some might argue that you would lose peak horsepower. I don't think they're wrong, if we're talking about a 600+ hp motor, but even then, you might only lose 10 or 12 peak horsepower.
On a 140 (at best) hp motor, more than likely you would experience a net gain across the board.
- Thread starter
- #71
I first had a rebuilt Aisin carb on my F engine and it ran okay. But never loved it off road or at altitude. So I went to the gm tbi setup. It never right ran and I always had problems. Some of that may be because I was young when I put it together and some of my install was questionable at best. I found myself always fixing parts of it or redoing them.
So 5 years of fiddling with it, I couldn’t handle it anymore. I could have probably picked up a new harness from afi, but I decided to pass on the 30 year old technology and move into something more likely to satisfy my wants. The sniper setup uses a wideband o2 sensor and dials in the needs of the motor substantially more than a rich or lean of a one wire o2 from the gm setup. I haven’t had a chance to calculate mpg, but once I have completed the learning process, I’ll see what I’m getting. I am guessing it’s substatially better than the gm setup.
I also really liked the sniper as it was so compact, ecm built right into the throttle body with only a few pigtails to connect to sensors and power. It’s a very clean looking install. Whereas the gm system had wires going everywhere.
Lastly I had read nothing but amazing reviews and wanted to be a pioneer To give another fuel management option for the old F and 2F engines.
I have no qualms about it and am looking forward to seeing how much better it gets especially when I can connect timing control.
So 5 years of fiddling with it, I couldn’t handle it anymore. I could have probably picked up a new harness from afi, but I decided to pass on the 30 year old technology and move into something more likely to satisfy my wants. The sniper setup uses a wideband o2 sensor and dials in the needs of the motor substantially more than a rich or lean of a one wire o2 from the gm setup. I haven’t had a chance to calculate mpg, but once I have completed the learning process, I’ll see what I’m getting. I am guessing it’s substatially better than the gm setup.
I also really liked the sniper as it was so compact, ecm built right into the throttle body with only a few pigtails to connect to sensors and power. It’s a very clean looking install. Whereas the gm system had wires going everywhere.
Lastly I had read nothing but amazing reviews and wanted to be a pioneer To give another fuel management option for the old F and 2F engines.
I have no qualms about it and am looking forward to seeing how much better it gets especially when I can connect timing control.
Thanks, guys for the responses. I have one or two projects ahead of it, the first being swiping out the 3 spd for a 4 spd, but definitely will consider this seriously.
I'll post a few things I appreciate about the EFI. Of course there are downsides that I can go into if anyone likes.
I really like that the mixture for Idle, cruise and full throttle are very easily adjustable. There is a touch screen in the cab that lets you tweak it as you drive. Many benefits to this, in addition to not having to pull the carb to rejet.
Closed loop operation. Uses the oxygen sensor to monitor the current engine mixture and adjusts instantly on the fly. Corrects mixture variations due to altitude, temperature, air temp, etc.
Idle speed control. It uses an IAC (idle air control valve) to constantly adjust TBI airflow for a constant idle speed and compensates for engine load, engine temp, etc. What I REALLY like about this is offroading, the IAC keeps the engine idling a the preset speed (up to a point) while I idle over stuff. For example, the 40 will putt along idling down a slight hill, then back up the hill, adjusting the throttle all the time to keep my preset idle speed at 800RPM. This would work SUPER well if you have some good granny gearing.
Speaking of idle speed. You adjust that from the cab with touchscreen slider.
Isn't effected by angle.. inclines, etc.
No vapor lock because fuel is constantly circulating in the fuel system.
And, I think it seems to lug along and not stall better. The EFI will keep spraying in the appropriate amount of fuel even if bog it way down below idle speed. I suppose a well designed carb with correct jetting would do this to, but the EFI seems to work real well lugging along. Just my perception on this one.
Can control ignition timing. (Need special dizzy)
Can control electric fan.
Can control idle speed, fan, with A/C
Nice touchscreen display that will display many engine parameters. RPM, voltage, coolant temp, intake air temp, Air fuel mixture. etc.
Can load a "kill" fuel setting, so Cruiser no go.
That's about it off the top of my head.
It comes at a price though. Time, money, frustration and all that type of stuff.
Also, it's advertised as self adjusting and I think that's a pretty optimistic description. It does the bulk of adjusting itself but there is still a lot to fine tune if you want it just right. I've been fiddling with mine for a year, but I'm the tinkering type, so I don't really mind. 70fj40 can give you a much better idea how well it self adjusts on a Toyota motor.
B.
I really like that the mixture for Idle, cruise and full throttle are very easily adjustable. There is a touch screen in the cab that lets you tweak it as you drive. Many benefits to this, in addition to not having to pull the carb to rejet.
Closed loop operation. Uses the oxygen sensor to monitor the current engine mixture and adjusts instantly on the fly. Corrects mixture variations due to altitude, temperature, air temp, etc.
Idle speed control. It uses an IAC (idle air control valve) to constantly adjust TBI airflow for a constant idle speed and compensates for engine load, engine temp, etc. What I REALLY like about this is offroading, the IAC keeps the engine idling a the preset speed (up to a point) while I idle over stuff. For example, the 40 will putt along idling down a slight hill, then back up the hill, adjusting the throttle all the time to keep my preset idle speed at 800RPM. This would work SUPER well if you have some good granny gearing.
Speaking of idle speed. You adjust that from the cab with touchscreen slider.
Isn't effected by angle.. inclines, etc.
No vapor lock because fuel is constantly circulating in the fuel system.
And, I think it seems to lug along and not stall better. The EFI will keep spraying in the appropriate amount of fuel even if bog it way down below idle speed. I suppose a well designed carb with correct jetting would do this to, but the EFI seems to work real well lugging along. Just my perception on this one.
Can control ignition timing. (Need special dizzy)
Can control electric fan.
Can control idle speed, fan, with A/C
Nice touchscreen display that will display many engine parameters. RPM, voltage, coolant temp, intake air temp, Air fuel mixture. etc.
Can load a "kill" fuel setting, so Cruiser no go.
That's about it off the top of my head.
It comes at a price though. Time, money, frustration and all that type of stuff.
Also, it's advertised as self adjusting and I think that's a pretty optimistic description. It does the bulk of adjusting itself but there is still a lot to fine tune if you want it just right. I've been fiddling with mine for a year, but I'm the tinkering type, so I don't really mind. 70fj40 can give you a much better idea how well it self adjusts on a Toyota motor.
B.
What don't you like about it?
I'm planning on installing one in a few months. I think what people don't like about it/drawbacks and cons etc. normally tells more about the product than all the good things.
Gonna have to think about this...
Mostly the time. Installation time, tuning time, research time. troubleshooting time. You can spend a lot of time converting it over, like it or not.
Cost. I think the price is pretty good for what you get. The Sniper setup is really well made and complete and I think it's a good value, but it is a good chunk-o-change.
I don't like having to run high pressure fuel (60psi) and a return line from my fuel tank(s). Expensive parts, somewhat difficult to install (time). I had to reconfigure my aux fuel tank feed to deal with the supply and return lines for the EFI system.
Reliability of EFI over a carb? I think a carb is dirt simple and reliable. If my EFI konks out I'm dead in the water. (I could carry a spare carb, haha)
Various parts that can wear out. Oxygen sensors wear out, TPS, IAC, wiring... I had a bad fuel pressure regulator from the get-go, and Holley sent me a new one no charge. But more stuff to go wrong.
I think that's about it. If I think of anything else I'll add it.
Still VERY happy I made the change.
B.
All those are very good points, but none of them really turn me off from the idea. They're things I already knew to be (maybe/likely in the future) issues. I'll stock parts for this system the same that I've bought an extra intake manifold and mechanical fuel pump haha. Things break ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Its good to know that the install isn't as easy as they make it seem. Im anticipating it being at least a 3 banana job
Question. The return line is mentioned many times. Does this mean I would have to change gas tanks? I have an old tank with only one outlet, coming out of the side, and no return holes or lines.
I wouldn't buy a new tank. Just clean it, let it air out so no fuel fumes are present, then TIG weld a return fitting on.
It might cost you $50 or less if you have to pay someone to do it.
I tried to find someone to weld on my gas tank. No one would touch it. Dont know how to link but heres a easier way to install a return line. Just drill a hole, insert then tighten the bolt.
Where on the tank did you put the return fitting?
