High steer, slee vs hellfire, Hydro assist.

[Wermz]

No thank you, Sh!t looks scary

Certainly could be done better, thats why i tagged these two guys.. also a low priority part, hardly any body would actually need these, but that doesnt mean someone wont.

lot of ways to skin that cat. I'm going to have more time in my life for 80 series stuff in a couple of months if a couple of things fall into place; definitely thinking about these solutions.

As i said above, low priority part, but it would be cool if at some point it was well built and available in a bolt on fashion.. thats all. Food for thought.

 

[jkeithw]

As i said above, low priority part, but it would be cool if at some point it was well built and available in a bolt on fashion.. thats all. Food for thought.

Oh yeah, I'm glad you tagged me - I'm into it. (market be damned; I mess with stuff I think is cool, lol)

 

[Feldrian]

Looks like a really cool idea... Also looks like something that needs the sh!t engineered out of it, given the forces on that link and the fact you're amplifying the load on the fasteners by adding a raised bracket.

Seems like the adjustment to the drag link, or how it attaches to the knuckle would actually be the tougher part of the mod.

 

[Wermz]

Okay, its time to start talking hydraulic ram assist..

••Where to drill on the steering box, ive seen a few options.

••Anything to be aware of installing the 105 sector shaft vs the original?

••What size and style fittings to install in ports?

••Where to position the ram, its stroke and bore?


This is how i understand it currently. Please correct me if im wrong or missing something.

The steering box has a piston inside that moves back and forth with some amount of fluid capacity on either side(lock to lock) that fluid being pressurized, your “power” steering. A hydraulic ram ideally should use the same fluid volume at its full extension/compression to match the volume of the box. As the piston in the box move back and forth, the ports drilled in the box should push fluid through hoses to the ram, and the ram should move back and forth an equal amount as the tierod. If the fluid volume doesnt match, or your ram is incorrectly sized youd have fluid pressure in the ram fighting the draglink/sector shaft for steering position binding the steering, does this sound correct so far?

I know there is a bunch of you with hydro assist, how deep do we go?

 

[Broski]

I'm just a dumb a** but here MHO

1) If you are going to run the ram off the tie rod you don't need the 105 sector shaft as all the pressure is moved to the ram

2) In my research I did not find anything about sizing the ram to the box. It was my understanding the size of the ram (bore) is based on pump size.
Since there is not a high volume pump for the 1FZ motor then a 1.5" ram is preferred over a 2" one. It's a low volume pump

3) Since you have a one off steering linkage system it well be up to you to determine the ram stroke and mounting position. there is a lot of info on this on the net.
8 to 10" is typical, I'm running a 9" ram

4) You are going to really like it running 40s

 

[Wermz]

i already have the 105 shaft and pitman arm anyway, had them sitting on a shelf for over a year now.


The 40s are tough to turn when standing still, in the woods they require movement to turn and im sure in some dry rocks they wouldnt turn at all, standing still of course. Im also desparate to replace my extremely loose steering gearbox, its a sloppy mess, talking like anywhere from 10-2 to keep it straight down the road. Ive replaced every single steering part in the truck except the box, trunnions, rag joint, even the column is tight. Ive killed 2 steering stabilizers in 3 years. Its time to move forward on the hydro assist and box replacment.

I suppose i could run a 10” ram, find the center(5”) center the steering and attach it to the tie rod on the front of the axle. There shouldnt be any harm in the ram never reaching its full limits.

Im not sure if i should clamp it to the tierod and weld on some tabs to keep the clamp from sliding on the tierod or if i should weld a mount for the end of the ram directly to the tierod itself, that may limit adjustability of toe in the future..

 

[Broski]

If your going to run a 10 " ram you need to shim it down or the ram well smash the steering stops or worse break a Knuckle. You need to figure out the full throw of your steering and work from there.

I welded the mount right to the tie rod you just have to pop off a tie rod end to adjust toe.

 

[Feldrian]

If your going to run a 10 " ram you need to shim it down or the ram well smash the steering stops or worse break a Knuckle. You need to figure out the full throw of your steering and work from there.

I welded the mount right to the tie rod you just have to pop off a tie rod end to adjust toe.

This ^^

Definitely better to have the ram slightly under on stroke and lose a hair of turning radius than have the ram actively destroy your steering linkage, knuckles and trunnions.

 

[Wermz]

Fair point haha. Im juggling a few ideas on ram placement at the moment. Psc sells a 1.5” bore 8” stroke cylinder, and trail gear now only sells a 2.25” bore cylinder. It would appear that @jcardona1 got a 1.5”b 8”s ram from TG a while back and they no longer offer that.. @Broski i do kinda remember your setup with the big mount/gusset on the back of the axle, do you have a few pics to drop here? Also pics of how its attached to the tie rod?

 

[baldilocks]

This ^^

Definitely better to have the ram slightly under on stroke and lose a hair of turning radius than have the ram actively destroy your steering linkage, knuckles and trunnions.

Historical data on this site shows that several who went before us, and myself, measured out 5” of throw in each direction. I did, however, use grade 8 washers externally to limit my ram stroke by 3/16” each way. A year later and plenty of wheeling my birfs and knuckles are just fine. An exceptionally tight turning radius is one of the cruisers best attributes.

 

[Broski]

First and fore most you need to figure out what your throw is mine was 95/8"
How To Measure Stroke Length For Adding A Ram Assist Cylinder - https://leepowersteering.com/pages/how-to-measure-stroke-for-adding-a-ram-assist-cylinder. these guy stock rams in 1/2" inclement

Yours is a custom one off steering system, so your hydro assist well be custom as well.

I think these picture well mostly help someone that's going to do behind the axle hydro

 

[peacesells63]

I'm just a dumb a** but here MHO

1) If you are going to run the ram off the tie rod you don't need the 105 sector shaft as all the pressure is moved to the ram

2) In my research I did not find anything about sizing the ram to the box. It was my understanding the size of the ram (bore) is based on pump size.
Since there is not a high volume pump for the 1FZ motor then a 1.5" ram is preferred over a 2" one. It's a low volume pump

3) Since you have a one off steering linkage system it well be up to you to determine the ram stroke and mounting position. there is a lot of info on this on the net.
8 to 10" is typical, I'm running a 9" ram

4) You are going to really like it running 40s

1. Sort of. The sector shaft still sees a lot of stress, as the ram is not doing anything until it sees input front the valve in the steering box. You can still twist a sector shaft with ram assist, but its much less likely to happen, especially when crawling, which is were most twist splines.

2. The box is just as big of a limiter as the pump. The orifices' inside are tiny and have a lot of sharp turns. There is no way to effectively "port" an 80 box to make it flow any better either. I have a 1.625" bore ram with a 3/4" shaft on one truck with a PSC TC pump and 80 box. That's about the best you can do without slowing steering down too much. On a crawler you can run a larger ram since the speed to power trade off is more worth it. A higher volume pump is a good thing, but you wont get much more volume through the box without upping pressure, and toyota boxes don't handle extra pressure well.

3. yes

4. yes, yes

5. Add a large PS cooler when doing ram assist. Those cylindrical PS coolers suck compared to a tube and fin style, so I would advise against those.

 

[BILT4ME]

Do you see a noticeable difference in speed of steering one direction VS the other when using a ram assist setup like this since one direction does not have the ram rod in the middle and you actually gain hydraulic power, but slow down in speed?

 

[Wermz]

Historical data on this site shows that several who went before us, and myself, measured out 5” of throw in each direction. I did, however, use grade 8 washers externally to limit my ram stroke by 3/16” each way. A year later and plenty of wheeling my birfs and knuckles are just fine. An exceptionally tight turning radius is one of the cruisers best attributes.

Grade 8 washers where, to limit overall steering travel? Can you explain that a bit more?

 

[Broski]

Do you see a noticeable difference in speed of steering one direction VS the other when using a ram assist setup like this since one direction does not have the ram rod in the middle and you actually gain hydraulic power, but slow down in speed?

No, theirs no noticeable difference

 

[Wermz]

2. The box is just as big of a limiter as the pump. The orifices' inside are tiny and have a lot of sharp turns. There is no way to effectively "port" an 80 box to make it flow any better either. I have a 1.625" bore ram with a 3/4" shaft on one truck with a PSC TC pump and 80 box. That's about the best you can do without slowing steering down too much. On a crawler you can run a larger ram since the speed to power trade off is more worth it. A higher volume pump is a good thing, but you wont get much more volume through the box without upping pressure, and toyota boxes don't handle extra pressure well.

5. Add a large PS cooler when doing ram assist. Those cylindrical PS coolers suck compared to a tube and fin style, so I would advise against those.

As far as porting is concerned, i meant drilling holes and adding ports, not increasing volume in passages, that would be a nightmare..


I always planned on a large capacity reservoir and big cooler, more fluid and better cooling of it should keep overall temps down..

 

[peacesells63]

I disagree on the sector shaft , as soon as theres any input the ram takes over

Steering input comes from the driver, and drivers reaction times are not "hitting a 300lb boulder with one front tire at 45mph" fast. Especially after 20 years of drinking diet Coors and eating a ______berto's based diet


Ask @richardlillard1 about his sector shaft torture experience

 

[peacesells63]

As far as porting is concerned, i meant drilling holes and adding ports, not increasing volume in passages, that would be a nightmare..


I always planned on a large capacity reservoir and big cooler, more fluid and better cooling of it should keep overall temps down..

People have tried, with no noticeable improvements. And yes, it looks like a nightmare.

Definite yes on both of those

 

[baldilocks]

Grade 8 washers where, to limit overall steering travel? Can you explain that a bit more?

The stack of washers adds up to 3/8” plus. Once the washers were in place I recenter’d the ram on the truck pretending that the ram only had a 9 and 5/8” stroke. Not my conception but one I learned elsewhere.

 

[azngarage]

Fair point haha. Im juggling a few ideas on ram placement at the moment. Psc sells a 1.5” bore 8” stroke cylinder, and trail gear now only sells a 2.25” bore cylinder. It would appear that @jcardona1 got a 1.5”b 8”s ram from TG a while back and they no longer offer that.. @Broski i do kinda remember your setup with the big mount/gusset on the back of the axle, do you have a few pics to drop here? Also pics of how its attached to the tie rod?

trail gear still offer the 1.5x8 kit.

Hydro Assist Kit

HYDRO ASSIST KIT

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