Hydro Assist install. Abandoned SLEE high steer kit.

[AcroSteve]

How does this hydro assist change the characteristics of this vehicle when being flat towed?

Going for the 1st test drive shortly.
The return to center thing concerns me regarding towing. The steering wheel in this 60 doesn't lock, for what that's worth.

 

[Broski]

I have no experience with that.
My guess is it we’ll be an issue, I would disconnect the ram at the tie rod and tie it up out of the way. And leave the steering stabilizer on

 

[AcroSteve]

Well, test drive was underwhelming.

Higher than stock steering effort on street driving. Engine was off of idle.

Symptoms of too big of a cylinder, or too small of a pump?

Reversed lines?

 

[Broski]

Me too!

Dad is running the itinerary(he lived in spanish valley for 10yrs or so), but we didn't make "registration". Got put on the waiting list. Lol and we haven't signed up for any of the formal trail rides. We like some company on the trails, but being part of a 20 rig traffic jam isn't our idea of fun

That said, we should be in town sunday to get settled in. We might try to tag along on one of the overnight runs 1st of the week.

Ya running harder trails keeps the group size smaller.
If you’re running fins and things it could be a issue

 

[Broski]

Well, test drive was underwhelming.

Higher than stock steering effort on street driving.

Symptoms of too big of a cylinder, or too small of a pump?

Both but you can easily $ get a high pressure pump for that LS
I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread the cool kids are now running a 1” ram on 80 series chassis.

 

[AcroSteve]

Both but you can easily $ get a high pressure pump for that LS
I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread the cool kids are now running a 1” ram on 80 series chassis.

I don't remember you mentioning 1"
Is that really the ticket?

Changing the cyl is definitely the easier way

I'll go back and look. That 9" you have is 1.5"? Thread sizes?

 

[baldilocks]

A PSC pump and 1.5” ram is a good combo with enough power assist to be noticeable and with less lag. I ran this combo on “Detroit Steel” before I got into the 80 series. A 1” ram seems too small bc the actuator rod side of the power piston would have a tiny surface area.

As for flat towing, you might look into buying or renting a tow dolly.

 

[AcroSteve]

A 1" cylinder just seems like a toy, i agree.


Do you think bleeding could be the issue? I sure believe I've got all of the air out of the system, but you never know, I guess

 

[Broski]

Bleeding could be an issue but I think it more the pump.
Take the reservoir cap off and have someone turn the wheel slowly with the motor running if you see bubbles it need more bleeding.

Flat towing with the tie rod end of the ram disconnected will not require bleeding the system again to hook it back up
Hydro under power has a poor return to center ! with no power or steering input I see it as an issue.
Please report back with hard facts

I agree that a 1” ram seems small but other members are reporting that they work well.
I well be spending 5 day wheeling at Sand Hollow just before Cruise Moab with a member that just installed a 1” ram so I well be able to seen fist hand how they work and most likely get to drive it.

 

[Broski]

As for flat towing, you might look into buying or renting a tow dolly. Disconnecting the ram means you will have to bleed it again.

How so ?

 

[baldilocks]

How so ?

That post has been edited.

 

[baldilocks]

Bleeding could be an issue but I think it more the pump.
Take the reservoir cap off and have someone turn the wheel slowly with the motor running if you see bubbles it need more bleeding.

Flat towing with the tie rod end of the ram disconnected will not require bleeding the system again to hook it back up
Hydro under power has a poor return to center ! with no power or steering input I see it as an issue.
Please report back with hard facts

I agree that a 1” ram seems small but other members are reporting that they work well.
I well be spending 5 day wheeling at Sand Hollow just before Cruise Moab with a member that just installed a 1” ram so I well be able to seen fist hand how they work and most likely get to drive it.

Reports that a 1” ram works well by members who have experience running which other size rams??? There is no solution here only trade offs. The smaller ram will be more cooperative on the road but can not offer as much force when you are bound up in the rocks. Volume of fluid flow from our small pumps is what’s deficient under certain circumstances, usually low rpm, not pressure.

@AcroSteve told us that on his first test drive he was not impressed with the perceived feel of increased steering power or ease of turning the wheels even up off idle. The 1.75” ram is too big for the flow output of our pumps. Pressure inside the ram will be whatever the pump can put out and theoretically the bigger ram will apply a greater force but slower.

Where the hydro assist set up really shines is rock crawling tight quarters on bolder infested trails and not really worth it if you don’t run those sort of trails.

Next thing we will read is that a .5” ram is the ticket because it’s completely unnoticeable at the mall parking lot and works awesome on the trail. What trail? By whom with what experience?

If this were my story I’d leave the 1.75” ram on my rig and buy a higher output pump like the PSC unit then go from there.

 

[Broski]

Reports that a 1” ram works well by members who have experience running which other size rams??? There is no solution here only trade offs. The smaller ram will be more cooperative on the road but can not offer as much force when you are bound up in the rocks. Volume of fluid flow from our small pumps is what’s deficient under certain circumstances, usually low rpm, not pressure.

@AcroSteve told us that on his first test drive he was not impressed with the perceived feel of increased steering power or ease of turning the wheels even up off idle. The 1.75” ram is too big for the flow output of our pumps. Pressure inside the ram will be whatever the pump can put out and theoretically the bigger ram will apply a greater force but slower.

Where the hydro assist set up really shines is rock crawling tight quarters on bolder infested trails and not really worth it if you don’t run those sort of trails.

Next thing we will read is that a .5” ram is the ticket because it’s completely unnoticeable at the mall parking lot and works awesome on the trail. What trail? By whom with what experience?

If this were my story I’d leave the 1.75” ram on my rig and buy a higher output pump like the PSC unit then go from there.

like I said I well know more about how a 1" rams work in a few weeks

I agree if I had LS motor I would go straight to a high pressure pump

Thank you for pointing out where hydro really shines

I don't think there's a .5 ram available

 

[AcroSteve]

Reports that a 1” ram works well by members who have experience running which other size rams??? There is no solution here only trade offs. The smaller ram will be more cooperative on the road but can not offer as much force when you are bound up in the rocks. Volume of fluid flow from our small pumps is what’s deficient under certain circumstances, usually low rpm, not pressure.

@AcroSteve told us that on his first test drive he was not impressed with the perceived feel of increased steering power or ease of turning the wheels even up off idle. The 1.75” ram is too big for the flow output of our pumps. Pressure inside the ram will be whatever the pump can put out and theoretically the bigger ram will apply a greater force but slower.

Where the hydro assist set up really shines is rock crawling tight quarters on bolder infested trails and not really worth it if you don’t run those sort of trails.

Next thing we will read is that a .5” ram is the ticket because it’s completely unnoticeable at the mall parking lot and works awesome on the trail. What trail? By whom with what experience?

If this were my story I’d leave the 1.75” ram on my rig and buy a higher output pump like the PSC unit then go from there.

Well put.

Regarding my pump, I've got no real idea it's capabilities other than the pressure reading i took.

I'm running a chevy LT engine. Orginal pump also powered hydroboost brakes, but the built in reservoir was too tall and I changed to a pump from a 3/4 ton van.

But the way you described it makes it seem like what I'm feeling when I steer quickly is the cylinder being dragged along by the linkage, because it can't keep up. Even at 1000+ rpm

I'm gonna drive it some more later today, but what 1st struck me was that I expected nearly effortless steering with the wheels off the ground. I dont have that.

I'm definitely getting benefit turning the wheels flat on the ground, but its not what I expected.

 

[Broski]

Hydro assist needs a high pressure pump to work well.
With a 1FZ in the 80 the pump is internal and gear driven so its not practical to add a high pressure and why we run a 1" or 1.5" ram !
With the chevy LT motor it should be a easy bolt on option
My buggy had a GM LT1 motor and the hydro steering was butter smooth with 42s on the street or in the rocks

 

[ThreeEyedBandit]

Hydro assist is much more dependant on flow. If your pump can't keep up flow at pressure the pressure drops and now steering is hard. This is why pump rpm helps marginal pumps.

Double/triple check bleeding. Any little air will really hinder performance.

Is the steering OK at slow input speeds at low rpm, but better at higher rpm?

What fluid? In colder weather I have had best luck over the years with regular dexron III with the factory pump, which is borderline at idle.

This is with a stock reservoir and using all of a 1.5x10 cylinder

 

[AcroSteve]

I ain't got time to dilly dally. Better get a known quantity...

 

[baldilocks]

I ain't got time to dilly dally. Better get a known quantity...

View attachment 3879736

I’m appreciating your approach to risk management.

 

[Broski]

All the info has been gone over countless times, the pump should have been ordered with the ram that way you you have a working set

 

[ThreeEyedBandit]

All the info has been gone over countless times, the pump should have been ordered with the ram that way you you have a working set

Where's the adventure in that?!