Help me plan for a 2FE

[Cruiserdrew]

There has to be a fairly standard procedure for this. Any friends who work in a machine shop?

Well worth your time, though. Mark A. was saying how nice his motor ran with a full balance. I'd like to do the same eventually, or at least have the machine shop do the same!

 

[fliphkd778]

I removed a lot from the reinforcing arches, well maybe not a lot; but a considerable amount. As for the wrist pin end, the common shop procedure is to use a belt sander.
The areas you have outlined don't offer much potential for weight removal. I had my ends resized so that could have contributed, but they were out by like 5 grams on average.

Look at 1:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpiF0E0EJU

 

[RockDoc]

I put together a balancing rig tonight, allowing me to get a big end mass along with the total mass for the rods. They've been measured with no pin or pin-end bolt, but with the rod bolt nuts in place. The pin end pivots on a wire spool cut down, polished and oiled, just happened to be the right diameter. To make sure that the big end mass is taken from the same point on each rod, a washer is placed on the bolt between the rod and cap, and nuts snugged up finger tight. Once the rod is in place, the pin end pivot needs to be flicked a couple times to get a proper free reading. Lifting and resetting each rod a couple or three times shows that a value reproducible within one or two grams is obtainable.

Running through each of the rods gives the following:

Rod # - total mass - delta total mass - big end mass - delta big end mass
1 ------- 936g ------- 0 --------- 724g ------- 0
2 ------- 953g ------- 17g ------- 735g ------- 11g
3 ------- 975g ------- 39g ------- 747g ------- 23g
4 ------- 971g ------- 35g ------- 739g ------- 15g
5 ------- 946g ------- 10g ------- 733g ------- 9g
6 ------- 951g ------- 15g ------- 734g ------- 10g

Maybe tomorrow night I'll get started on grinding and balancing them

 

[matt.mcinnes]

Where is the Hamster?

 

[RockDoc]

Where is the Hamster?

They all escaped when I pulled the oil pan. I'll have to pick up some fresh ones when I reassemble it.

 

[PabloCruise]

I put together a balancing rig tonight, allowing me to get a big end mass along with the total mass for the rods. They've been measured with no pin or pin-end bolt, but with the rod bolt nuts in place. The pin end pivots on a wire spool cut down, polished and oiled, just happened to be the right diameter. To make sure that the big end mass is taken from the same point on each rod, a washer is placed on the bolt between the rod and cap, and nuts snugged up finger tight. Once the rod is in place, the pin end pivot needs to be flicked a couple times to get a proper free reading. Lifting and resetting each rod a couple or three times shows that a value reproducible within one or two grams is obtainable.

Running through each of the rods gives the following:

Rod # - total mass - delta total mass - big end mass - delta big end mass
1 ------- 936g ------- 0 --------- 724g ------- 0
2 ------- 953g ------- 17g ------- 735g ------- 11g
3 ------- 975g ------- 39g ------- 747g ------- 23g
4 ------- 971g ------- 35g ------- 739g ------- 15g
5 ------- 946g ------- 10g ------- 733g ------- 9g
6 ------- 951g ------- 15g ------- 734g ------- 10g

Maybe tomorrow night I'll get started on grinding and balancing them

I am back with more silly questions - so we have total mass, reciprocating mass and rotational mass.

Are you going to balance just the big end mass, or do big end mass and then measure the small end mass?

 

[RockDoc]

Big end mass + small end mass = total mass. So if the big end mass and total mass are balanced between rods, the small end mass should be too. Total mass is easy to measure, and I was able to come up with a rig for the big end fairly easily, so that's the way I've gone.

 

[PabloCruise]

Big end mass + small end mass = total mass. So if the big end mass and total mass are balanced between rods, the small end mass should be too. Total mass is easy to measure, and I was able to come up with a rig for the big end fairly easily, so that's the way I've gone.

I'm with you, I guess my question could more accurately stated as, once you balance the rotational mass at the big end of the rod, where will you prioritize the removal of material to balance the total mass?

From the mid section of the rod to balance the total mass, or will you compare measurements of the reciprocating mass to drive your decision?

 

[RockDoc]

I just did #6, 15g is a lot of material when you are looking for places it won't be missed. 39g is going to be interesting I started by marking on each rod approximately where the center of removed material should be (2/3 of the way from the pin to the center of the big end for #6) and start working somewhat symmetrically from there. But I keep throwing it on the scale to see how I'm doing total mass- and big end bias-wise.

 

[Trollhole]

There are 4 coatings from Techline:



As for the balancing, I'll run through what I do. Since the I6 doesn't require bobweights to balance rotationally, I'm going to try and idea for balancing the crank at home. If it works I'll post up.

That is really cool. Very interested in how it turns out.

 

[Trollhole]

This is how mine were done on the Big Gay 2f

 

[RockDoc]

3 of the 5 that need to be lightened are done. Should have the other 2 done later tonight.

This is how mine were done on the Big Gay 2f

I'm probably being a Nervous Nelly, but I've stayed away from taking much off those arches, taking it a little here, a little there instead. Pics when I'm done.

 

[RockDoc]

One more messy job down. All rods have a mass between 935g and 937g with big end mass of 723g or 724g. Much better than the starting point

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Very cool. It's going to be as smooth as butter.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

So that's only 5. You realize there are supposed to be 6, right?

So how are you going to do the crank and flywheel?

 

[RockDoc]

Very cool. It's going to be as smooth as butter.

I better figure out something for a rev limiter. Snow wheeling has a habit of winding things up past the redline as it is. :whoops:

So that's only 5. You realize there are supposed to be 6, right?

I thought 5 cylinder engines were all the rage now, the 1PZ, the MB diesels.....

So how are you going to do the crank and flywheel?

I've got an idea, but I don't want to share until I find out if it has any merit.

 

[pappy]

If you use the 3FE ECU it's rev limited internally. I seem to recall at 5000rpm. Just so you know I have seen one 3FE with a hole in the block.

 

[RockDoc]

If you use the 3FE ECU it's rev limited internally. I seem to recall at 5000rpm. Just so you know I have seen one 3FE with a hole in the block.

I've seen some claim it does, some not (e.g. Mark W). There was some discussion in a thread several months ago.... I've had mine up to 5000 by the stock tach without encountering a limiter. Have you encountered it yourself? (curious, not trying to be nasty) If it does, I'd be happy with 5000 rpm as a limit, but I'm doubtful.

 

[pappy]

I have not pushed my engine past 4000rpm, so I can't say. My info comes from Toyota documentation. I too have heard a few people say they have pushed theirs past 5000rpm.

 

[RockDoc]

Okay, just came across the reference you posted from the 88 "new car features" source. so they say it's there, some have found it, some not. I would be in that latter category....

Perhaps I've pulled back just short of it activating, or perhaps the factory tach reads high...