Help me plan for a 2FE

[PabloCruise]

I think '85 was the change to the world market 3F head... but that thread would show for sure.

That is how I take Jim C's post from that thread:

Mace,
If you had to pick one 2F to build, the 85-end models are best. They have all the upgrades of the 81-85, plus in 85 they got:

-the 3F cylinder head, which gives the option of running the 3F manifolds
-the 3F head gasket with better coolant flow direction
-screw in oil galley plugs (I really like this)
-slight improvement w/ the 3piece thrust bearing
-torx screws in timing plate(which should be added to any engine).

However, if you start w/ a 4230cc engine that is 8.3:1, then punch it 1.5mm OS, the result is 4367cc at 8.57:1. Usually the head is milled a little to clean up the face, which will get up to 8.7:1. If the engine is gonna be blown on, that's a pretty high CR, without modern feedback control systems.

The lightened valvetrain came along in mid 1979.

On the rods, newer is definitely better. As Mark mentioned, it's marginally lighter, but it's also much stronger because of the extra finishing on the I-beam.
I've got a picture here of the 79-earlier rod vs. the 80-later rod, but can't figger out how to post it.

If the engine is gonna be spun, it should be balanced to zero. Early 2F and all F engines are often out by several OUNCES. No, not grams. Rods are out by 20 grams or more, cranks off by 50, flywheels off by 30. The only thing that keeps a 1971 F engine together at speed is sheer stubbornness. The 81-newer engines were destined for cushy FJ60 wagons, so they finally started paying attention to balancing. They are usually only out by an ounce.

HTH

That would be sweet to just bolt up your 3FE manifolds to an existing block/head combo.

But what do you do about PCV?

 

[RockDoc]

That would be sweet to just bolt up your 3FE manifolds to an existing block/head combo.

Pretty sure he's referring to the world market carbed 3F manifolds, rather than the 3FE. Those heads still lack the clearancing for the injectors.

 

[PabloCruise]

Bummer...

O-k, sorry hijack over!

 

[frontrange]

Pretty sure he's referring to the world market carbed 3F manifolds, rather than the 3FE. Those heads still lack the clearancing for the injectors.

Cutting reliefs into a 3F carbed head for the injectors should be pretty easy, too bad the 2F head lacks the material above the intake ports to support the same modification on them.

 

[RockDoc]

Cutting reliefs into a 3F carbed head for the injectors should be pretty easy, too bad the 2F head lacks the material above the intake ports to support the same modification on them.

Don't think there is enough material: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/143089-3fe-vs-2-3f-carb-cyl-head.html

 

[frontrange]

Honestly, I don't think those reliefs need to be cut that high. I just flow tested a set of 3FE injectors with them mounted in the 3FE plenum. The injectors streams are needle thin coming out of the injector (assuming it's not clogged) I think you could cut the relief at least a 1/4 inch lower and leave enough material for a good seal on the gasket. Going back and looking why I dismissed trying to mod a 2F head really was due to the material not being there to drill and tap for the 4 extra studs on the 3F/E head. The 3FE intake is really big and needs the extra support.

 

[RockDoc]

How do I get the three huge ass staked screws that hold the front plate loose? Do I need some kind of socket driven flathead bit?

Bump for advice on this. So far all I've managed is to bloody my knuckles trying to remove these.

 

[tonkota]

Bump for advice on this. So far all I've managed is to bloody my knuckles trying to remove these.

Use an impact driver like this one (only better quality):
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices


You could always try a little heat with a propane torch and a quench. Just replace them after they are out.

 

[RockDoc]

Use an impact driver like this one (only better quality):
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

Thanks, I'll have to pick one up tomorrow.

A couple more questions....
How much simpler would front bracketry work be if I nixed the AC system?
Does the machinist need the cam in hand to order the right cam bearings? I'm going to get the cam when I am down south, but hopefully will get the block and bits to the machinist before then.

 

[tonkota]

Thanks, I'll have to pick one up tomorrow.

A couple more questions....
How much simpler would front bracketry work be if I nixed the AC system?
Does the machinist need the cam in hand to order the right cam bearings? I'm going to get the cam when I am down south, but hopefully will get the block and bits to the machinist before then.

If you have no A/C compressor, then you really don't need any brackets made. The P/S pump bolts to the head, as does the smog pump. I've since removed my smog pump since I accidentally passed emissions testing with out it connected.

I'm not in the know on the cam bearings, but I would assume that they need to take measurements.

 

[zebrabeefj40]

Thanks, I'll have to pick one up tomorrow.

A couple more questions....
How much simpler would front bracketry work be if I nixed the AC system?
Does the machinist need the cam in hand to order the right cam bearings? I'm going to get the cam when I am down south, but hopefully will get the block and bits to the machinist before then.

I found all the stock brackets and belts worked on my 2FE conversion. Since I was building the motor to drop into a '84 FJ60 I used those brackets. I think it would be harder NOT to use stock brackets 'cause then you need to figure out which not stock belt to use too.

The cam bearings are standard. All the machinist needs to know is the year of the motor to get the correct ones. AFAIK there are no "undersize" cam bearings available. In short, he does not need the cam in hand to size the bearings.

Nick

 

[RockDoc]

I found all the stock brackets and belts worked on my 2FE conversion. Since I was building the motor to drop into a '84 FJ60 I used those brackets. I think it would be harder NOT to use stock brackets 'cause then you need to figure out which not stock belt to use too.

The cam bearings are standard. All the machinist needs to know is the year of the motor to get the correct ones. AFAIK there are no "undersize" cam bearings available. In short, he does not need the cam in hand to size the bearings.

Nick

Thanks for the tip on the bearings. My understanding on the brackets is that some mods are required to fit the 3FE accessories to the 2FE for a 62, but none needed for 2F accessories for a 60.

 

[tonkota]

FJ62 2F-E will require the A/C compressor to be moved out the smog pump support to be raised and something to attach the Alt. The P/S pump stays mounted to the head.

FJ60 came with a 2F so no accessories need to be changed or moved.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

I used one of the 3FE brackets to tension the power steering belt.

This thread may help

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-seri...g-issues.html?highlight=power+steering+issues

Don't drop the air con off turn it into an air pump for running air tools or pumping tyres up and down even operating air lockers. All you need to add somewhere is an accumulator with a pressure switch that turns the air con on and off.

 

[samibattlemaiden]

FJ62 2F-E will require the A/C compressor to be moved out the smog pump support to be raised and something to attach the Alt. The P/S pump stays mounted to the head.

FJ60 came with a 2F so no accessories need to be changed or moved.

im still in the gathering stage but to verify i will need no 3fe frontal accessories?



Doc you need t finish this operation so i can use this thread as my E.S.M. (engine surgery manual)

 

[tonkota]

When doing a 2F-E in a FJ60, you are changing to the "E" part, you already have the 2F. Your accessories will stay put. Your head will change, but the accessory mounting points are still there.

If doing a 2F-E in a FJ62, you are changing the 3F part to a 2F part. Accessories could be changed to FJ60 style locations or jimmied around a bit with brackets. I choose to make brackets and they work very well.

 

[samibattlemaiden]

So all I need is an e sweet. Any body got an e they wanna sell cheap. But on a serious note how bout the wiring harness

 

[pappy]

But on a serious note how bout the wiring harness

You will need two. The engine harness will be used unmolested. The cowl harness will need to be taken apart to remove the EFI bits from the rest of the harness. Make sure the two are from the same year. The 1988 harness is different than the 1989/90, though you could make the two work together fairly easily. The FJ80 is different from the FJ62, but not much.

 

[samibattlemaiden]

Thank you sir

 

[PabloCruise]

When doing a 2F-E in a FJ60, you are changing to the "E" part, you already have the 2F. Your accessories will stay put. Your head will change, but the accessory mounting points are still there.

If doing a 2F-E in a FJ62, you are changing the 3F part to a 2F part. Accessories could be changed to FJ60 style locations or jimmied around a bit with brackets. I choose to make brackets and they work very well.

Would anyone in here be able to comment on what I need to do to gain A/C in a FJ55 w/ 3FE in it?

I know I probably need to start a thread in the 55 section, but I thought I would start here based on the conversation in play...