Im not saying a tune wouldn't”t be good, im saying the stock ECU has the ability to adapt to the parameters needed to run safely, ive done it with many 5.7s and they have thrown no codes and ran flawlessly, one customer in particular has well over 100k on his harrop! I also ran 6.5 lbs of turbo boost to my 80 series with no tune and flawless operation, magnuson used to make a supercharger for the 80 series with no tune and 6 ish lbs of boost snd some of those have 2-300k on them! If a 90s Toyota ECU can stretch to those parameters needed for 6.5lbs of boost I can guarantee these new ECUs can too! Now if your trying to push 10-15 lbs, yea by all means you need a tune to be safe
Harrop Supercharger for 21 LC
- Thread starter Luke78
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BadReligion
SILVER Star
Not an argument, it's my personal preference. I like to see my Toyota's hit 300k.
Definitely no bias there.
I take a position based on prior knowledge informed by research and empirical evidence. How do you form your opinions?
BadReligion
SILVER Star
I don't take "research" performed by a manufacturer to help promote their product at face value.
bloc
SILVER Star
**research that disagrees with fundamentals of what professional tuners do for power and durability.
The benefit of finally not losing to a 90s Camry
Care to expand upon this
I would like to see you try to back up this factually incorrect statement. Because it is plain wrong.
What are you losing? Are you trying to race 1/4 mile at a time in a 3 ton SUV?The benefit of finally not losing to a 90s Camry
Anything and everything from my 90hp to 1200hp+, from sub 1900lbs to 6000lbs+ vehicles. Race what you brung
The 200 series land cruiser is listed as a 6.7 second 0-60 and 15.2 second 1/4 mile time. I'm all about more power, but for a big family hauler thats plenty fast. It comfortably does 95mph + on the highway. Has plenty of power to tow. Never left me wanting more like previous 80 series and 100 series which always felt underpowered, even when they were new.Anything and everything from my 90hp to 1200hp+, from sub 1900lbs to 6000lbs+ vehicles. Race what you brung
With that said, I think it's awesome we have mail order supercharger options for these 200 series. I've built plenty of go fast toys over the years, it's always fun. But way more fun in a sedan or coupe.
The 200 series land cruiser is listed as a 6.7 second 0-60 and 15.2 second 1/4 mile time. I'm all about more power, but for a big family hauler thats plenty fast. It comfortably does 95mph + on the highway. Has plenty of power to tow. Never left me wanting more like previous 80 series and 100 series which always felt underpowered, even when they were new.
With that said, I think it's awesome we have mail order supercharger options for these 200 series. I've built plenty of go fast toys over the years, it's always fun. But way more fun in a sedan or coupe.
Personally, I have fun going fast in everything... and typically the more obscure it is, the more fun it is. Everyone expects a 1000hp Supra, but not everyone expects a 400hp miata or a 600-1200hp+ suv.
This just *might be* plenty fast... Maybe one day haha.
bloc
SILVER Star
There is no MAP sensor, so the ecu literally has no way to detect the boost and pull timing as is one of the most basic things a tuner does. All it can do is listen for knock and adjust from the tables that assume vacuum in the manifold.
The 200 series is not MAP/Temp/RPM based, it has a MAF sensor based air measuring system. Measures air flow just fine for boosted applications. Your only limitation is what range the MAF sensor can measure before it is maxed out.
Exactly. And the testing performed by Harrop demonstrated that the MAF and the corresponding fuel/timing tables had coverage with margin for their Stage 1 kit and 91 grade US fuel.
Corollary- A tuner would not have MAP data either, and would have to leverage the existing LC sensor paradigm.
bloc
SILVER Star
That’s my point. There is no feedback system to tell the ECU that manifold pressure has increased, which a tuner would want to adjust fuel and spark for beyond just the requirements of the extra air mass.
To be clear I’m not saying this can’t be reliable, but to make the blanket statement that an ECU built from the ground up to run an NA engine has the ability to “learn” what is *best* for a forced induction system just isn’t realistic.
It’s up to each owner to decide whether that’s good enough. But it’s not the same.
pressure doesnt matter for fueling/tuning. It's all about air flow and temp (mass of air). There are OEM turbo cars that have AFM or MAF sensors and not a boost sensor as well.
bloc
SILVER Star
Yes and those tables will be set up to assume certain parameters of a turbo based induction system appropriately. These trucks can’t, unless a tuner intervenes.
Literally the MAF/IAT sensors informs the ECM of the mass of air flowing through the intake to allow fuel metering and spark timing. It is agnostic of air pressure in the manifold because it is an irrelevant measurement to this system- it has enough data to meter fuel and spark with MAF and IAT.
A MAP/IAT/RPM system estimates mass flow with less precision to achieve the same result.
There’s no magic fairy dust in tuning. It is dialing in fueling and spark tables to ensure correct stoichometry and timing for various power settings; the motor doesn’t care what is pushing the air- a turbo, high ambient air density (cold day, Furnace Creek, 30.40” Hg), or a blower.
Harrop confirrmed that the stock sensors and maps covered 7lbs of boost. Maybe not optimized for power output but safe. Tuning would likely pull some fuel out at high boost for greater BMEP, sacrificing some margin for power.
