Convince me to not get a supercharger…

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I’d be curious of the rotor dimensions on that setup.

You can run the most epic caliper possible, but if there isn’t enough mass and cooling capacity in the rotor it’ll all just overheat too quickly to be useful anyway.
 
I’d be curious of the rotor dimensions on that setup.

You can run the most epic caliper possible, but if there isn’t enough mass and cooling capacity in the rotor it’ll all just overheat too quickly to be useful anyway.

I’ll have to ask. The shop owner has it on his 200 with 37’s and the Magnuson SC. Stops really well the couple times I drove it. Better than my 2017 on 35’s.
 
I love my supercharger. Off road, 3rd or 4th gear with the center diff locked puts a smile on my face every single time. It's great around town but to fully appreciate the torque/hp the center diff lock needs to be engaged. I've had a few fast cars and I really enjoy them (probably too much) but off road with a lot of power is my true happy place. I just crossed 245k miles on my 2016 and the last 90k have been supercharged. I throw occasional codes but would never go back to n/a.
 
I gotta back away from this thread

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Lol right?

Crazy how fast I went from “I’ll just throw some skids on it” to “maybe I’ll supercharge the engine after I install a new suspension and an aux fuel tank”.

This place is dangerous.
Wait… I think I need an aux fuel tank too
 
I browsed through a bit and didn't see a lot of technical comments. I have extensive experience supercharging Tundras and a couple LX570s. My personal Tundra has 305k on it and been running a TRD supercharger the last 90k.

You have a variety of options, Magnuson 2650, Harrop 2650, and (arguably) Whipple. I would NOT get the Whipple, lots of quality control issues and I currently have a Whipple in my shop that just came back from them servicing it and there's stuff wrong with it. Plus their support seems to be going away.

The Magnuson and the Harrop are similar, really the question is the overall package. Harrop has two offerings, "stage 1" which is the basic setup that doesn't "require tuning". And "stage 2" that comes with injectors and a tune and maybe some other stuff. A benefit of the Harrop is that it comes with a harness that moves the IAT sensor after the rotors so you get post-boost IAT values, vs the Magnuson that uses the stock MAF location IAT so you don't see the true temperature of the intake air. I think that's kind of a minor point, but should be noted. The stage 1 is not inherently bad, but the lack of tuning they recommend is stupid at best. I have looked at truck datalogs before tuning them and with the blower and stock tune there is a lot of knock retard happening, additionally the stock power enrichment (when the truck starts dumping fuel to richen it out) doesn't happen until 70deg of throttle angle, and yet you're going to enter boost around 40deg so if you're cruising around you could be well into boost without richening out.

The stage 2 comes with a tune, but frankly I would not run any manufacturers tune, the aftermarket is much better and places like OTT even have CARB compliant tunes if that is required. However, the stage 2 does come with DW650 injectors which are very good and what I recommend all higher power setups go to, so the fact you get a quality and large size improvement injector is huge. And I think you get a DW300 fuel pump, though I forget. You do NOT get an intake though.


The Magnuson 2650 is the most well rounded and complete package, it comes with a tune (again, would still recommend an aftermarket tune but the newer Magnuson tunes are much better than the old TRD tunes), it comes with 535cc injectors (better than stock but not by much), it gets a fuel pump but not a lot bigger (just enough to support the 535s, so if you ever upgrade to larger injectors you need to upgrade the pump again---I would recommend getting the DW300 pump for $130 or whatever and just install that so you're future proofed from dropping the tank again), and the Magnuson comes with the best aftermarket intake setup which is a 4" intake tube and uses stock filters and is very high quality. You can buy the Magnuson intake separately through Superchargers Online and it is a common upgrade for the other superchargers. The intake itself isn't about making power, the issue is the stock sensor can only read so much airflow before it maxes the sensor out, and a larger intake has more intake area so the area of air being measured from the MAF becomes smaller relative to the total intake area, so you read a lower voltage at more airflow. This isn't a catastrophically critical issue, worst case the truck throws a code that the sensor is maxed out and nothing else happens and it's only at high rpm, but the point is just that the Magnuson comes with this intake and no other supercharger does.



Both superchargers have pulley upgrades (Harrop sells them, and I make Magnuson pulleys) and the pulleys are four bolts to swap out. Probably not a big concern, but for higher altitude people a pulley is highly recommended since you see massive power losses with a supercharger due to altitude.

In summary, both have tons of upgrade potential. If you do not plan to upgrade the boost much/at all, then the Magnuson is the most complete kit. The Stage 1 Harrop I would not even consider, stock injectors and no tuning is dumb. The Stage 2 Harrop comes with larger and very much usable fueling upgrades over the Magnuson, but lacks the intake. If you want to push more power than a stock supercharger, the Harrop comes equipped out of the box (minus intake) for that. If you want to push more power, the Magnuson needs the injectors and pump upgraded which is more expensive and intensive than just upgrading the intake for the Harrop.


The Magnuson and the Harrop are both extremely reliable. You can't go wrong with either, and performance wise they are nearly identical and use the same Eaton 2650 core. Really the question is pricing, and what ancillary items that are included are more beneficial to you. If you get the Magnuson, I would at a minimum do the DW300 pump and throw out the Magnuson pump; if you get the Harrop I would get the Magnuson intake. Either of those configurations is a very good starting point with potential to easily push more juice if/when you want.


Tuning is a whole other conversation, OTT is a very common recommendation and has CARB compliant tunes for the 5.7. Many others tune the trucks too. Depending on the place you might be able to use the tuning hardware included with the superchargers, or you might have to buy separate hardware from HP Tuners or VF Tuner. Aftermarket tuning generally runs ~$600+, the Magnuson and Stage 2 Harrop come with tunes from the OEM, but they are somewhat limited and obviously are just canned tunes, but they are better than nothing.



As far as failure modes you're looking at, the superchargers are very reliable and don't generally need maintenance until 100k and just get an oil change (requires removal of the blower). The supercharger can be gone through and rebuilt. The 5.7 engine is known to have ringland failures if the pistons get hot, because of that we generally run the 5.7 richer than most boosted engines to keep the pistons cool and avoid issues. Personally I like to richen out very heavily right as the truck enters boost so it's very conservative. At stock supercharger boost levels, the Magnuson 535cc injectors are fine, for more boost you'll want 650 or higher flow injectors and a fuel pump to support it. Besides that it's just tuning to command more fuel to keep the pistons safe. Lots of high mileage superchargers out there, and if you're just stop light racing and cruising they are very reliable boosted engines, just give it a lot of fuel and a good tune.
 
I browsed through a bit and didn't see a lot of technical comments. I have extensive experience supercharging Tundras and a couple LX570s. My personal Tundra has 305k on it and been running a TRD supercharger the last 90k.

You have a variety of options, Magnuson 2650, Harrop 2650, and (arguably) Whipple. I would NOT get the Whipple, lots of quality control issues and I currently have a Whipple in my shop that just came back from them servicing it and there's stuff wrong with it. Plus their support seems to be going away.

The Magnuson and the Harrop are similar, really the question is the overall package. Harrop has two offerings, "stage 1" which is the basic setup that doesn't "require tuning". And "stage 2" that comes with injectors and a tune and maybe some other stuff. A benefit of the Harrop is that it comes with a harness that moves the IAT sensor after the rotors so you get post-boost IAT values, vs the Magnuson that uses the stock MAF location IAT so you don't see the true temperature of the intake air. I think that's kind of a minor point, but should be noted. The stage 1 is not inherently bad, but the lack of tuning they recommend is stupid at best. I have looked at truck datalogs before tuning them and with the blower and stock tune there is a lot of knock retard happening, additionally the stock power enrichment (when the truck starts dumping fuel to richen it out) doesn't happen until 70deg of throttle angle, and yet you're going to enter boost around 40deg so if you're cruising around you could be well into boost without richening out.

The stage 2 comes with a tune, but frankly I would not run any manufacturers tune, the aftermarket is much better and places like OTT even have CARB compliant tunes if that is required. However, the stage 2 does come with DW650 injectors which are very good and what I recommend all higher power setups go to, so the fact you get a quality and large size improvement injector is huge. And I think you get a DW300 fuel pump, though I forget. You do NOT get an intake though.


The Magnuson 2650 is the most well rounded and complete package, it comes with a tune (again, would still recommend an aftermarket tune but the newer Magnuson tunes are much better than the old TRD tunes), it comes with 535cc injectors (better than stock but not by much), it gets a fuel pump but not a lot bigger (just enough to support the 535s, so if you ever upgrade to larger injectors you need to upgrade the pump again---I would recommend getting the DW300 pump for $130 or whatever and just install that so you're future proofed from dropping the tank again), and the Magnuson comes with the best aftermarket intake setup which is a 4" intake tube and uses stock filters and is very high quality. You can buy the Magnuson intake separately through Superchargers Online and it is a common upgrade for the other superchargers. The intake itself isn't about making power, the issue is the stock sensor can only read so much airflow before it maxes the sensor out, and a larger intake has more intake area so the area of air being measured from the MAF becomes smaller relative to the total intake area, so you read a lower voltage at more airflow. This isn't a catastrophically critical issue, worst case the truck throws a code that the sensor is maxed out and nothing else happens and it's only at high rpm, but the point is just that the Magnuson comes with this intake and no other supercharger does.



Both superchargers have pulley upgrades (Harrop sells them, and I make Magnuson pulleys) and the pulleys are four bolts to swap out. Probably not a big concern, but for higher altitude people a pulley is highly recommended since you see massive power losses with a supercharger due to altitude.

In summary, both have tons of upgrade potential. If you do not plan to upgrade the boost much/at all, then the Magnuson is the most complete kit. The Stage 1 Harrop I would not even consider, stock injectors and no tuning is dumb. The Stage 2 Harrop comes with larger and very much usable fueling upgrades over the Magnuson, but lacks the intake. If you want to push more power than a stock supercharger, the Harrop comes equipped out of the box (minus intake) for that. If you want to push more power, the Magnuson needs the injectors and pump upgraded which is more expensive and intensive than just upgrading the intake for the Harrop.


The Magnuson and the Harrop are both extremely reliable. You can't go wrong with either, and performance wise they are nearly identical and use the same Eaton 2650 core. Really the question is pricing, and what ancillary items that are included are more beneficial to you. If you get the Magnuson, I would at a minimum do the DW300 pump and throw out the Magnuson pump; if you get the Harrop I would get the Magnuson intake. Either of those configurations is a very good starting point with potential to easily push more juice if/when you want.


Tuning is a whole other conversation, OTT is a very common recommendation and has CARB compliant tunes for the 5.7. Many others tune the trucks too. Depending on the place you might be able to use the tuning hardware included with the superchargers, or you might have to buy separate hardware from HP Tuners or VF Tuner. Aftermarket tuning generally runs ~$600+, the Magnuson and Stage 2 Harrop come with tunes from the OEM, but they are somewhat limited and obviously are just canned tunes, but they are better than nothing.



As far as failure modes you're looking at, the superchargers are very reliable and don't generally need maintenance until 100k and just get an oil change (requires removal of the blower). The supercharger can be gone through and rebuilt. The 5.7 engine is known to have ringland failures if the pistons get hot, because of that we generally run the 5.7 richer than most boosted engines to keep the pistons cool and avoid issues. Personally I like to richen out very heavily right as the truck enters boost so it's very conservative. At stock supercharger boost levels, the Magnuson 535cc injectors are fine, for more boost you'll want 650 or higher flow injectors and a fuel pump to support it. Besides that it's just tuning to command more fuel to keep the pistons safe. Lots of high mileage superchargers out there, and if you're just stop light racing and cruising they are very reliable boosted engines, just give it a lot of fuel and a good tune.
Excellent and thorough response! Thank you!
 
What about a turbocharger instead? Don't they have turbo kits for the 5.7?
A company called TurboKits recently came out with one for the 5.7 a year or so ago. It's only been run on a Tundra is my understanding, so how well that translates to a LC engine bay I'm not sure. But that is also an option, my only caveat to a turbo is that's arguably a much more DIY approach since it's far less proven and "supported" than the superchargers which have been around as a 5.7 option for 10+ years now. The turbocharger will make more power at less boost and be more efficient, though would lack the off the line punch obviously. I've debated going to a turbocharger on my Tundra since my 1900 Magnuson is already tapped out and at 5500ft elevation can't keep up with the sea level guys at all.
 
Lol right?

Crazy how fast I went from “I’ll just throw some skids on it” to “maybe I’ll supercharge the engine after I install a new suspension and an aux fuel tank”.

This place is dangerous.
I did suspension and aux tank first. I will say after the S/C i had to swap out rear springs because I had so much squat on hard acceleration that it created some weird dynamics off road.

I'm going to chime in a bit on the need for upgraded brakes topic. I fully realize this is not apples to apples but I don't think it's even close to necessary. On the Canguro Racing 200 we run stock Toyota calipers because we run RW wheels so we can run the tire size we want from BFG that only come in 17s. It's a non-boosted setup with 2 separate circuits and a manual bias adjustment. So definitely different than a stock 200 BUT, the caliper clamping force has never been an issue in the 10 years we've been racing it. As a matter of fact we had a failure in the bias rod a few years ago and the stock calipers actually stopped us from moving, totally locked up and the calipers didn't suffer at all from the heat. Even after our mid-race repair meant we ran glowing hot dragging rear rotors for the last 200 miles of the race. Proper rotors and pads I do think are imperative but no need to jump to a BBK. We ran Hawk for a couple of seasons and the last few we've been using Remmen. Oddly in our class in desert racing we opt for brake pads that have the most bite when cold rather than needing to heat up. We spend so much time being unable to go fast the brakes don't get used as much as you would think. When we raced the LX600 with the team from Japan they came over with brakes that were the exact opposite. In my time behind the wheel I had to drag the brake every now and then to keep heat in them so I didn't get caught off guard going into a corner with cold brakes. They upgraded to cold bite pads for the following races.
 
A company called TurboKits recently came out with one for the 5.7 a year or so ago. It's only been run on a Tundra is my understanding, so how well that translates to a LC engine bay I'm not sure. But that is also an option, my only caveat to a turbo is that's arguably a much more DIY approach since it's far less proven and "supported" than the superchargers which have been around as a 5.7 option for 10+ years now. The turbocharger will make more power at less boost and be more efficient, though would lack the off the line punch obviously. I've debated going to a turbocharger on my Tundra since my 1900 Magnuson is already tapped out and at 5500ft elevation can't keep up with the sea level guys at all.

Install costs and then efficiency were the reasons I was thinking. Though the turbo kits aren't exactly cheap either. What does a supercharger do to the 5.7s already abysmal fuel economy? Seems like aux fuel tank(s) would be a must going this route.
 
Install costs and then efficiency were the reasons I was thinking. Though the turbo kits aren't exactly cheap either. What does a supercharger do to the 5.7s already abysmal fuel economy? Seems like aux fuel tank(s) would be a must going this route.
They certainly don't help, but your normal driving plays a bigger role than the blower does. When you're not in boost it doesn't act any differently than a stock engine.
 
I did suspension and aux tank first. I will say after the S/C i had to swap out rear springs because I had so much squat on hard acceleration that it created some weird dynamics off road.

I'm going to chime in a bit on the need for upgraded brakes topic. I fully realize this is not apples to apples but I don't think it's even close to necessary. On the Canguro Racing 200 we run stock Toyota calipers because we run RW wheels so we can run the tire size we want from BFG that only come in 17s. It's a non-boosted setup with 2 separate circuits and a manual bias adjustment. So definitely different than a stock 200 BUT, the caliper clamping force has never been an issue in the 10 years we've been racing it. As a matter of fact we had a failure in the bias rod a few years ago and the stock calipers actually stopped us from moving, totally locked up and the calipers didn't suffer at all from the heat. Even after our mid-race repair meant we ran glowing hot dragging rear rotors for the last 200 miles of the race. Proper rotors and pads I do think are imperative but no need to jump to a BBK. We ran Hawk for a couple of seasons and the last few we've been using Remmen. Oddly in our class in desert racing we opt for brake pads that have the most bite when cold rather than needing to heat up. We spend so much time being unable to go fast the brakes don't get used as much as you would think. When we raced the LX600 with the team from Japan they came over with brakes that were the exact opposite. In my time behind the wheel I had to drag the brake every now and then to keep heat in them so I didn't get caught off guard going into a corner with cold brakes. They upgraded to cold bite pads for the following races.

This is going to be use case and driver dependent. I agree BBKs may not be necessary, but OEM pads should be switched as they have a pretty low temp threshold (~500°F). They'll also fade concernly as temp builds.

Off-road, there is not the same traction and bite to really heat up brakes. Versus something like mountain switchbacks on-road.

I find Hawk LTS to be a huge upgrade over stock pads with significantly more bite and friction (even cold). Great modulation. With solid temperature handling up to the a full (~700°F), with confidence inspiring and strong friction deep into those temps.

I'm on upsized Tundra rotors and calipers (equivalent to 2016+ sizing) on my 2009 LX570. On stock power, I can burn up a set of Hawk LTS brakes pads in the mountains. At high temps, the pad material can get compromised where it'll start to disintegrate but will perform down to the last bit of pad. Upsizing and BBKs is not so much about clamping force but the larger rotor helps to dampen peak temps to make braking performance sustainable and repeatable.

Could be just my driving as a previous track junkie. Hanging around this thread too long could do some damage to my wallet.

1752853422780.png
 
This is going to be use case and driver dependent. I agree BBKs may not be necessary, but OEM pads should be switched as they have a pretty low temp threshold (~500°F). They'll also fade concernly as temp builds.

Off-road, there is not the same traction and bite to really heat up brakes. Versus something like mountain switchbacks on-road.

I find Hawk LTS to be a huge upgrade over stock pads with significantly more bite and friction (even cold). Great modulation. With solid temperature handling up to the a full (~700°F), with confidence inspiring and strong friction deep into those temps.

I'm on upsized Tundra rotors and calipers (equivalent to 2016+ sizing) on my 2009 LX570. On stock power, I can burn up a set of Hawk LTS brakes pads in the mountains. At high temps, the pad material can get compromised where it'll start to disintegrate but will perform down to the last bit of pad. Upsizing and BBKs is not so much about clamping force but the larger rotor helps to dampen peak temps to make braking performance sustainable and repeatable.

Could be just my driving as a previous track junkie. Hanging around this thread too long could do some damage to my wallet.

View attachment 3951836
100% agreed pads and rotors need to be upgraded and I love Hawk products. I have Remmen on my 200 because of the partnership. I'm not saying a BBK isn't a good investment but I don't think it's necessary.
 
I guess... but if you aren't going to "adjust" your normal driving habits why even bother with the SC in the first place
I don't really follow, you don't drive around at WOT all the time do you? When you want to pass or jump at a stop light it makes a huge difference. If you're just cruising down the road at constant speed and not in boost your fuel economy doesn't move much if at all.
 
Can you pass California smog with a SC and tune onboard? I know from personal experience an aux tank is an issue.
 
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