Front swaybar quick disconnects revisited and tested

[Iceaxe]

stop being dramatic, nobody is "covering anything up", I for one think LCP is a prick , the community is telling you that you should take responsibility for your own work rather than dumping blame on a small time mfg, LCP sells a few simple tidbits and a bracket, that's it, it's up to you how you make it work. If you want a ready to go vehicle in a box, go buy a jeep rubicon. You disconnected your factory swaybar, he just provided pieces to help do it, it is up to you to do it correctly and determine you won't have issues. I would suggest you revert back to a factory setup for piece of mind.

You completely missed my point. My point is, this particular mod requires pause to make sure you have installed it correctly, are fully aware of the risks, and accept those risks. For me, I honestly didn't know the swaybar, under the right conditions, could rip your lines out. You want to criticize me for that? Good for you. If you do, know there are many other folks who read this website who may not have known either.

 

[Iceaxe]

It is the point. You are not willing to take any responsibility for your own failure to install the product and test your vehicle properly before taking it on the trail. Like I said, the responsibility is yours to install the simple bits and pieces that are sold to you correctly and ensure they are safe and work properly on your vehicle. If the cotter pin was the wrong size, damaged, whatever, you should of caught it and corrected the situation.

Yeah, we're talking in circles. And yes, you're being defensive of LCP. Perhaps I should simply stay quiet, let someone else have the uncommon issue, and we'll hope they don't have a bad outcome.

 

[1973Guppie]

No one is saying LCP intentionally did anything here. But I'm disturbed by the reaction here instead of simply saying, "Yeah, makes sense- let's simply point out there is real potential for danger if you failed to install correctly". Is what I'm saying that difficult to understand?

You want to keep using that product? Feel free. But don't expect others who didn't have a positive experience not say something.

Nonsense. Using that logic we would all be crying foul when we did not check the lugnuts for proper torque. Working on cars, motorsports and especially 4 wheeling are inherently dangerous. There is potential for danger in almost everything if installed incorrectly. It's a mute point and understood by most people. Again you are responsible for making sure whatever parts you buy work correctly on your rig. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten the wrong size bolt, pin, gasket, whatever and had to find another solution.

Just promise us you won't buy a welder.

 

[Iceaxe]

Nonsense. Using that logic we would all be crying foul when we did not check the lugnuts for proper torque. Working on cars, motorsports and especially 4 wheeling are inherently dangerous. There is potential for danger in almost everything if installed incorrectly. It's a mute point and understood by most people. Again you are responsible for making sure whatever parts you buy work correctly on your rig. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten the wrong size bolt, pin, gasket, whatever and had to find another solution.

Just promise us you won't buy a welder.

Look pal, you can keep slinging the insults all you want. Doesn't change my point, and I certainly hope other folks read and consider it for themselves.

 

[concretejungle]

OK this is getting out of hand!

I see your point. It was an incident that startled you and could of harmed you and your family. That would make me think about things too.

However, all of us on this board buy modifications to our trucks and each and every one of them has risks. Even if he would have said in bold red print to check clearances, do you think every single installer will do that? Probably not.

I don't think you can blame LCP for lack of communication though; but again, i'm on the sidelines so i don't know, i wasn't there. He communicated very well with me when i purchased his flip-up windows and i had an issue with the installation.

Either way, i think it's noted and hopefully LCP will use bold, italics, underline and red print on the words "Check your clearances" in his install instructions for the future.

 

[baldilocks]

The idea works for a few people and I’m not one of them. I punched a hole in a half dollar sized piece of steel plate and welded it to my frame to make a quick disconnect set up. My drive shaft dropped and hung on the sway bar pretty hard.

I considered installing sway bar drops even thicker than the 2” drops already in use. What I learned is that dropping the sway bar down more cause it to project farther forward in the up and stowed position leaving it still in the way if my driveline droop path and simply that it hangs down that much further.

I do have the tapered coils that droop more than a typical single rate coil so this may not be as much of an issue for others.

I usually run around sans the front sway bar so I got used to driving without it. If I plan on an all highway sort of trip I spend 10 minutes putting it back on.

 

[Iceaxe]

“Either way, i think it's noted and hopefully LCP will use bold, italics, underline and red print on the words "Check your clearances" in his install instructions for the future.”

The only modification I would say is “Check your clearances or you may risk clipping your brake lines (in red and bolded). And here is how you cycle your suspension to check your clearances (with pictures).” That’s what was missing in what I received in the product released two years ago.

 

[retrofive]

“Either way, i think it's noted and hopefully LCP will use bold, italics, underline and red print on the words "Check your clearances" in his install instructions for the future.”

The only modification I would say is “Check your clearances or you may risk clipping your brake lines (in red and bolded). And here is how you cycle your suspension to check your clearances (with pictures).” That’s what was missing in what I received in the product released two years ago.

You realize this is common with any lift as well and documented here as well? So all lift manufactor should do that to?

 

[Iceaxe]

You realize this is common with any lift as well and documented here as well? So all lift manufactor should do that to?

Not sure I agree with equating the risk with lift kits (where many have them installed in a shop) being the same as this simple to implement mod (where many will do it themselves).

 

[landtank]

As most know I offer products that modify land cruiser for various purposes.

During the design stage avoiding user risk from performing such changes is always at the fore front of the process.

I detail to the best of my ability what a user can expect from using one if them.

And then s*** happens.

Sometimes it requires a design change or further clarification.

It's not negligence but the next step in the process from taking a product out of a controlled environment and into the masses.

And can even happen after years of service.

Im sure Phil will address this the best he can.

 

[ewillis]

Seems like a good product...one I've been considering for some time. I do appreciate the word of caution from @Iceaxe . I would think an updated locking mechanism as LT suggested (something besides the basic cotter pin) may be beneficial.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

First off Sorry to all that simple SwayBar Disconnects have come to this. I will attempt to provide some clarity. Im not looking for or interested in a debate....

Some History - I have been running this set up using the same (pictured below) tine pin w/hairpin & Pin with 2 wire safety strap on factory locked 80's since 2004. I average 3,000+ off road dirt miles per year. I feel comfortable saying I have disconnected and connected my swaybars and logged more dirt miles using this set up than most. With my swaybar pinned up or in place I have never had a fastener come loose.

Can a fastener come loose on its own when the swaybar pinned up(as claimed above)? Chances are no because with the swaybar pinned up it is only being held in place with little to no stress. Take a look at the connections in the two pictures below and I think most will agree. The drivers side uses safety wire around the swaybar and connects to the hitch pin because it is difficult pull out without help. One way this could will happen is if your driveline comes in contact with your swaybar. This could bend the brackets and possible if you are not a factory locked vehicle and are using the Pin with 2 wire safety strap on both sides. (you cannot use pin with 2 wire safety strap on a factory locked 80/LX). Not to say if not possible but very unlikely using the fasteners included. In the past (in this thread) another well known manufacturer suggested I could get by with one connection when pinned up. Because of my track record with the proven set up saving a couple dollars was not worth the chance.

Sadly many people get excited and do to the simplicity of the product do not read the instructions. Below is a picture of the instructions you would have and will receive when you order in the past couple years. At the bottom in BOLD, in CAPS, with ARROWS POINTING DOWN and LARGER FONT is ▼▼▼VERY IMPORTANT▼▼▼. It is also highlighted (brighter in real life) in PINK, not sure red would make a difference. As you can see the text is also circled and some more important stuff is highlighted. I do understand the importance and as you can see I have made an effort to make the point. What one does with the the VERY IMPORTANT information I cannot control but I truly want everyone (even the ones the claim they dont like me, Im sure they really do) to be safe and enjoy off roading. Adding when your swaybar is disconnected you will be safer off road by keeping your wheels on the ground and eliminate the risk of ripping your factory swaybar mounts off and experience bad things.

Like anything I offer you dont like it for ANY reason send it back and I refund your money less shipping. With over 500 sets sold in 6 different countries we have not received any back.

Thanks to those that ordered today after reading through the muck. Swaybar Disconnects - Land Cruiser Products - LCP

NOTE: Make sure you cycle your suspension properly after installing this product and check your brake lines, ABS wiring, and locker wiring if equipped

 

[Iceaxe]

Ok Phil. Have it your way.

The thread has documented a concern about those very same pins, installed precisely as you photographed can find their way out if you’re on a washboard road.

I’ve documented the concern here. People are now aware of the concern and they can choose to do what they will with the information.

We’ll hope that no one gets “too excited” during the installation. And we’ll hope we don’t read about someone having an accident.

I certainly hope, for your sake, this is much ado about nothing.

 

[Steve D]

The thread has documented a concern about those very same pins, installed precisely as you photographed can find their way out if you’re on a washboard road.

I am still trying to figure out how this is possible. I know from experience that the retaining hoop on the pin shown in Phil's middle "installed" photo above takes quite a bit of force to flip it open. The bar would have to be loose on the other side (which would require the cotter pin to fall out or be pulled out of the clevis pin) AND the bar would have to make significant contact with something that forces the bar sideways in order to unlatch the hoop.

I am not saying that scenario is impossible but I would have to believe there would be marks on the offending suspension parts. You stated "weak cotter pin" in an earlier comment. Are you saying the pin didn't feel like it engaged the clevis pin strongly enough? Or are you suggesting the part shipped was defective?

 

[concretejungle]

regarding the pin... i had originally thought about using a bolt with a washer/nut on it when i made a set of these disconnects. But then i realized, A. i would need a socket and wrench at each trail head to either disconnect or connect them, and B. the nut could eventually work loose and fall off. So i opted for the pin with a retaining hoop. So far after many, many miles, they are still there and not showing any signs of movement.

However, i must say that with the movement of my suspension i have noticed the pin has a tendency to "walk" from one side to the other. So, i guess in theory it could walk and push on the latch and eventually push itself out. But i think it would take the perfect condition to do that.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I am still trying to figure out how this is possible. I know from experience that the retaining hoop on the pin shown in Phil's middle "installed" photo above takes quite a bit of force to flip it open. The bar would have to be loose on the other side (which would require the cotter pin to fall out or be pulled out of the clevis pin) AND the bar would have to make significant contact with something that forces the bar sideways in order to unlatch the hoop.

I am not saying that scenario is impossible but I would have to believe there would be marks on the offending suspension parts. You stated "weak cotter pin" in an earlier comment. Are you saying the pin didn't feel like it engaged the clevis pin strongly enough? Or are you suggesting the part shipped was defective?

▲THIS▲

When the swaybar is in the disconnect position the brackets keep the bar from moving side to side illuminating any stress to the fasteners be it the 2 wire safety clip or hairpin in the tine pin. This is no different when the swaybar is in the normal position where it fact it would get more vibration on a rough or washboard road.

IMO only 2 things can cause the fasteners to fail, driveline and swaybar contact and not latching the fasteners.

 

[Steve D]

IMO only 2 things can cause the fasteners to fail, driveline and swaybar contact and not latching the fasteners.

Unless the cotter pin tethering wire was mistakenly looped around the coil spring....

 

[nukegoat]

Theres no way that you could vibrate that cotter pin out. Its own mass is insufficient to overcome the spring rate of the pin. Even with armageddon level shaking

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Unless the cotter pin tethering wire was mistakenly looped around the coil spring....

True dat but I would see that to be considered an operator failure not a fastener failure?

 

[Steve D]

True dat but I would see that to be considered an operator failure not a fastener failure?

Just taking the "you should warn us of anything that could go wrong" to its ridiculous conclusion....