jkeithw
Supporting Vendor
Guys, we're doing the windshield install today - do we need to pull the headliner? I hate to find out that it's necessary halfway through the job...
Quick windshield installation question - and post-install thoughts (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter jkeithw
- Start date
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Malleus
Far west of Siegen
No, even if you have a 2nd gen model.
jkeithw
Supporting Vendor
- Thread starter
- #5
ok, guys - here are my thoughts:
First, I've been involved (directly and indirectly) with replacing windshields in vintage 911s for over two decades, so I have some experience here.
That said, the Toyota seal is very impressive versus an equivalent German seal from the era.
EVERY windshield I've installed has been installed with soap (Dawn liquid detergent as a lubricant, then a glue as it dries), and it assists the rope/string action. They don't really leak* (I can explain the asterix later, but it gets into Nerdom)
I used [will insert this later, I'm at home now], and that wasn't the best choice for a couple of reasons:
The primer is certainly designed for glass-to-metal bonding - the applicator will not fit into the channels of the rubber seal, and it quickly dissolved the plastic spray paint cap that I was using as a bowl for brushing it in (yes, you have to do that in this situation) - which soaked through the craft paper and stained the paint on the hood while we were preppring the seal to receive the adhesive.
We cleaned the excess primer from the public side of the seal to the best of our ability, then moved on to the adhesive. I clipped the nozzle smaller than I thought necessary, but still ended up putting too much in there. Luckily, I'd taped (two rows) off the windshield and the truck body outside of the glue areas, otherwise it would have been a disaster. The cleanup took 3-4 times the actual installation, and I don't think any glue is necessary between the glass and the seal (the factory seal is that impressive)
DO NOT GET QUICK-SET ADHESIVE. We had a 15-minute working time, and it took us 20-25 minutes to do everything and rope it into place (and I have - literally - gobs of experience here)
DRY FIT THE SEAL TO THE WINDSHIELD BEFORE YOU START - this will save you time in execution should you follow the factory procedure.
I still have to bond the outer flange to the body work - that's for tomorrow - but, honestly, I think that may be the ONLY area that needs adhesive. I will go back to soap-only on my next install (I have a 1996 in the driveway awaiting shop time) and wil report back as to how it works.
*Nerdom Note - in MY experience, anytime a robust seal does not function to keep out water, it is the fault of the metal stamping of some component that makes up the windshield frame/opening/flange. I believe this may also be the case here, hence Toyota advising glue between the seal and the body.
As I said, next time, I'm going with soap-only. I'll let you know how that works (but it will be 1000% better than today was).
First, I've been involved (directly and indirectly) with replacing windshields in vintage 911s for over two decades, so I have some experience here.
That said, the Toyota seal is very impressive versus an equivalent German seal from the era.
EVERY windshield I've installed has been installed with soap (Dawn liquid detergent as a lubricant, then a glue as it dries), and it assists the rope/string action. They don't really leak* (I can explain the asterix later, but it gets into Nerdom)
I used [will insert this later, I'm at home now], and that wasn't the best choice for a couple of reasons:
The primer is certainly designed for glass-to-metal bonding - the applicator will not fit into the channels of the rubber seal, and it quickly dissolved the plastic spray paint cap that I was using as a bowl for brushing it in (yes, you have to do that in this situation) - which soaked through the craft paper and stained the paint on the hood while we were preppring the seal to receive the adhesive.
We cleaned the excess primer from the public side of the seal to the best of our ability, then moved on to the adhesive. I clipped the nozzle smaller than I thought necessary, but still ended up putting too much in there. Luckily, I'd taped (two rows) off the windshield and the truck body outside of the glue areas, otherwise it would have been a disaster. The cleanup took 3-4 times the actual installation, and I don't think any glue is necessary between the glass and the seal (the factory seal is that impressive)
DO NOT GET QUICK-SET ADHESIVE. We had a 15-minute working time, and it took us 20-25 minutes to do everything and rope it into place (and I have - literally - gobs of experience here)
DRY FIT THE SEAL TO THE WINDSHIELD BEFORE YOU START - this will save you time in execution should you follow the factory procedure.
I still have to bond the outer flange to the body work - that's for tomorrow - but, honestly, I think that may be the ONLY area that needs adhesive. I will go back to soap-only on my next install (I have a 1996 in the driveway awaiting shop time) and wil report back as to how it works.
*Nerdom Note - in MY experience, anytime a robust seal does not function to keep out water, it is the fault of the metal stamping of some component that makes up the windshield frame/opening/flange. I believe this may also be the case here, hence Toyota advising glue between the seal and the body.
As I said, next time, I'm going with soap-only. I'll let you know how that works (but it will be 1000% better than today was).
jkeithw
Supporting Vendor
- Thread starter
- #6
another member was kind enough to PM last night about his experiences, which I thought important enough to repost here:
"FWIW when I had a windshield installed without the correct adhesive-sealant between the gasket and the glass, the windshield leaked, a lot. Many others on the forum have had the same experience.
So I had the National chain redo it (this was like 12-15 years ago), they sent two installers to work together, but it still leaked.
So then I then got an independent local installer who did all the work for Toyota and Mercedes in my area to do it. Took him an hour to find the leak but it was because no sealant, or not enough, between the gasket and the glass. He seemed to know a lot but I still left him a copy of the FSM procedure. He and a helper worked to install the windshield and it was finally leak free. He said they followed the FSM exactly ie: primer, etc, and sealed the glass to the gasket and the gasket to the body. No leaks since then, been around 12-15 years.
One thing I learned about the reasons for using an adhesive-sealant (gasket-glass, gasket-body). I didn't know anything about windshields at that time when mine leaked after the first installation so I started to search around for info and ended up calling the US Auto Glass Association something ?? for their opinion and they said it's a critical step to use the correct windshield adhesive-sealant between the glass and the gasket and the gasket to the body as it's meant not only to seal it from leaks but also to keep the glass with the vehicle in the event of a rollover accident and/or if things are flying in the air."
Off to seal the gasket to the body this morning and clean up yesterday's mess.
"FWIW when I had a windshield installed without the correct adhesive-sealant between the gasket and the glass, the windshield leaked, a lot. Many others on the forum have had the same experience.
So I had the National chain redo it (this was like 12-15 years ago), they sent two installers to work together, but it still leaked.
So then I then got an independent local installer who did all the work for Toyota and Mercedes in my area to do it. Took him an hour to find the leak but it was because no sealant, or not enough, between the gasket and the glass. He seemed to know a lot but I still left him a copy of the FSM procedure. He and a helper worked to install the windshield and it was finally leak free. He said they followed the FSM exactly ie: primer, etc, and sealed the glass to the gasket and the gasket to the body. No leaks since then, been around 12-15 years.
One thing I learned about the reasons for using an adhesive-sealant (gasket-glass, gasket-body). I didn't know anything about windshields at that time when mine leaked after the first installation so I started to search around for info and ended up calling the US Auto Glass Association something ?? for their opinion and they said it's a critical step to use the correct windshield adhesive-sealant between the glass and the gasket and the gasket to the body as it's meant not only to seal it from leaks but also to keep the glass with the vehicle in the event of a rollover accident and/or if things are flying in the air."
Off to seal the gasket to the body this morning and clean up yesterday's mess.
