Front Bearing Replacement (15 Viewers)

[Roosevelt T]

Searched through a lot of these threads and don't see this as an issue - any ideas? This might apply more to a front axle thread as I also am replacing the CV on this side with brand new Toyota OEM, but if I messed up its more likely an issue with the bearing rebuild.

I cant get the snap ring to seat because of lack of clearance, so I tried my own tool and bent it, thought it might be the soft steel, so I also bought @TheForger's tool and its not budging. I thought maybe I didn't seat the inner oil seal far enough in - however I also sort of assume pulling with the tool would seat it if I didnt (although I could be wrong)

However, I am seeing this, which I think is where the problem is (pic below). There is no clearance from that flange on the CV to the knuckle. I cant find my feeler gauges so I will go to HF tomorrow, but I think this is my issue as they seem to be contacting each other.... yes I did drive the vehicle around the block and can't hear it, but theres no gap there.

Anyone ever run into this?

 

[GVegasG]

Which thickness of snap ring are you trying to use? There are 6 different sizes. Do you have a pic ?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Which thickness of snap ring are you trying to use? There are 6 different sizes. Do you have a pic ?

x2, might be as easy as a narrower clip.

 

[2001LC]

Searched through a lot of these threads and don't see this as an issue - any ideas? This might apply more to a front axle thread as I also am replacing the CV on this side with brand new Toyota OEM, but if I messed up its more likely an issue with the bearing rebuild.

I cant get the snap ring to seat because of lack of clearance, so I tried my own tool and bent it, thought it might be the soft steel, so I also bought @TheForger's tool and its not budging. I thought maybe I didn't seat the inner oil seal far enough in - however I also sort of assume pulling with the tool would seat it if I didnt (although I could be wrong)

However, I am seeing this, which I think is where the problem is (pic below). There is no clearance from that flange on the CV to the knuckle. I cant find my feeler gauges so I will go to HF tomorrow, but I think this is my issue as they seem to be contacting each other.... yes I did drive the vehicle around the block and can't hear it, but theres no gap there.

Anyone ever run into this?

Of course could be to thick a snap ring. The factory snap ring is a 2.2mm. 90% of time I need to use a 2.4MM, that's with all new components that would effect gap, installed. 18% of time, I use a 2.6mm. 1% of time a 2.8MM and 1% of time a factory 2.2mm. Never in any case, have I ever needed any of the thinner snap ring, in well over 100 wheel bearing services.

Your statement about wheel bearing, an mention of oil seal Is very likely the issue.

You may have a few things going on. Here's 3 possibilities:

1) The FDS outer seals' metal, is bent. Just a little that I see, in the damage/marred spot. But this is not your snap ring issue. But could be sign, of another issue!
2) You may be missing the brass bushing in back of knuckle. This would allow FDS outer axle's backstop, into knuckle to far. Which metal of outer FDS seal may rub on knuckle and its seal in back of knuckle.
3) Your may have the oils seal in back of wheel hub, in backward. This push wheel hub out and as such hub flange out. You'd then have a false breakaway preload and a narrow gap.

Wrong! Oil seal is in backward, in the back of wheel hub. Metal hump protruding will hit/rub at back of spindle.

Correct! Metal of oil seal flat side out, and is flush with wheel hub.

Metal of Oil seal in backward, will rub on knuckle back of where it rides. Push wheel hub outward.

Brass bushing in back of knuckle. Also notice the seal on outside and needle bearing inside.

All to often metal of FDS outer seals, get damaged in retail shipping. They need straightening, before installing. Or they may rub knuckle and or damage seals.

 

[2001LC]

A word about snap rings.

Toyota has six snap rings, that come various thicknesses. They're in graduation of 0.2mm. From 1.8mm to 2.8mm. The FSM directs us to increase thickness, if gap is .2mm or greater. So in some cases, we end up with a very tight snap ring gap. So tight, gap can not be measured. It's best to not tap in snap ring, if gap to small.

What happens if snap ring to tight (no gap), at hub flange to snap ring in axle groove, In a properly assembled wheel hub:

1) Brass bushing it pulls against will wear down . Until pressure exerted by no gap, is reduced (increased gap by ~.01mm). After which wear of brass bushing should normalized
2) If old brass bushing, worn down past usable thickness. The two seals mating together between FDS axle & back of knuckle, may be damaged. The damage that may (not will), is from excessive pressure result in excessive fiction of the seals mating surfaces. We want this seal to float in and out of each other. With no more than .19mm of travel

With all new factory parts, the very thinnest one would every use is the 2.2mm, which is rare. Never do we use those 2.0mm & 1.8mm snap rings. IMHO, they're added to the available list, just to compensate for milling tolerance all hitting maximum allowable, of each components that can effect gap. But I've yet to see that happen, as our stuff not made in China...

What happens if hub flange snap ring gap, to wide. Which FSM states is anything 0.2mm or greater:

1) Seals between knuckle & FDS do not seal properly, moving out (separating) past design limitations.
2) These same seals may prematurely fail, from travelling and separating greater the .2mm.
3) Contaminants may enter seals area. Damaging seals, brass bushing, axle back face brass bushing contacts, needle bearings. Water may even flow thought spindle, pass hub flange splines into wheel bearings.
4) Axle snap ring grove & hub flange face may be damaged, form excessive in and out movement. Resulting in excessive pounding on hub flange and axles grooves wall.
5) Axle splines (teeth) and hub flange splines, wear excessively from sawing (moving in and out) action.

Why replace a snap ring every time remove:

Each time a snap ring is expanded, to install or remove. It's diameter increases (expands), subsequently it doesn't clamp around axle as sung. A loose fitting snap, has less of bit in the groove of axle to retain it. The groove in axle is mostly comprised of splines (teeth). With less of a tooth retaining the snap ring, groove wears and widens fast. The grooves wall becomes round very often in this event (reuse of snap ring). At some point, the snap ring no longer has a good enough bit, and pops off.

This is when we see post, like: I blew my front diff, I can't move FWR or Back. Then @Trunk Monkey says "check your C-clip", it may have popped off! Engage CDL, see it you can move. By this time, likely even long before. The FDS (CV) is trashed. Those now list at Toyota for ~$650 each. Then the labor, hub flange, seal, etc. Very expensive damage, just from not replacing a snap ring for $2.

Bottom line:

Replace the $2 snap ring every time and with proper thickness. Can save$$ thousand in long term repairs.

Don't forget the grease cap is also non reusable. Or you'll likely get water entry, contaminating wheel and axle bearings.

Let the FSM be your guide:

Note: non reusable, is if removed: This does not included wheel bearings, unless race removed from wheel hub. Always return bearing to it's race, which it has seated with.

 

[Roosevelt T]

Thanks for the responses... I'll mention you rather than quote so it doesn't get as messy.

@GVegasG & @cruiseroutfit I am using (well attempting to use) the slimmest one, the 1.8mm. Did my pic not load? I attached a pic of the back of the axle where the axle outer seal seems to be hitting the knuckle. There's not much to show on the snap ring side - the ring wont fit.

@2001LC
1.) Yep, its bent. I had to bend it out because it was very damaged during shipping, like the one in your pic where a section was almost flat. That being said the other side of the truck has way more clearance across that whole outer seal than this side. I cant hear that seal scraping on the knuckle, but there's virtually no space there.
2.) I didn't touch the brass bushing or the seal on that side, they are both definitely there, I made sure all that was ok before re-installing. Can they be messed up without me touching them?
3.) The oil seal was my first thought. I installed it just like you show here, and with a piece of wood to ensure its 100% flush... and I have installed these in the rear so I know the orientation, but I think I do have to pull it apart to double check and see if i messed that up.

All this being said - If the outer seal is touching the knuckle, there's no place for the axle to go, even if I did install the oil seal wrong... which is my big concern now (if that makes sense). Have you ever had to bend those to increase clearance?

 

[Roosevelt T]

Thanks for the responses... I'll mention you rather than quote so it doesn't get as messy.

@GVegasG & @cruiseroutfit I am using (well attempting to use) the slimmest one, the 1.8mm. Did my pic not load? I attached a pic of the back of the axle where the axle outer seal seems to be hitting the knuckle. There's not much to show on the snap ring side - the ring wont fit.

@2001LC
1.) Yep, its bent. I had to bend it out because it was very damaged during shipping, like the one in your pic where a section was almost flat. That being said the other side of the truck has way more clearance across that whole outer seal than this side. I cant hear that seal scraping on the knuckle, but there's virtually no space there.
2.) I didn't touch the brass bushing or the seal on that side, they are both definitely there, I made sure all that was ok before re-installing. Can they be messed up without me touching them?
3.) The oil seal was my first thought. I installed it just like you show here, and with a piece of wood to ensure its 100% flush... and I have installed these in the rear so I know the orientation, but I think I do have to pull it apart to double check and see if i messed that up.

All this being said - If the outer seal is touching the knuckle, there's no place for the axle to go, even if I did install the oil seal wrong... which is my big concern now (if that makes sense). Have you ever had to bend those to increase clearance?

Hey, just bumping this. Sorry to bother you @2001LC or anyone else, but wondering if anyone has run into an outer seal they had to modify on their axle.

 

[2001LC]

I have seen brass bushing paper thin. These are usually ones where contamination has entered. Either form bad or no grease cap and or bad seals (knuckle to FDS). But as brass bushing wears, hub flange gap increases. It is brass bushing we first replace, if gap to wide ( 2,8mm snap ring, w/0.2 gap).

I've never measured the gap between FDS seal and knuckle, with all new components. But with axle pulled out hard/tight, and little to no snap ring to hub flange gap. I suppose no more 3mm or no less than 1mm.

This used brass bushing is 1mm, the new is 3mm.

Your FDS seal appears to close to knuckle. I can't say if bushing to thin, or seal metal bent toward knuckle (it looks okay). So I'd say likely brass bushing is to worn. It's one or both. You should have, cleaned and lube bushing and needle bearing. So should know condition!.

With OEM FDS/axle in so far, seal touches knuckle. You should have a wider snap ring to hub flange gap. So you for sure have issue with wheel hub assembly, also.

Somewhere you made some mistakes.

"I assume all OEM parts"
These points affect gap, on wheel hub side of knuckle:
Rear oil seal.
Rear large bearing &/or it's wheel hub race.
Butt point on spindle for rear large bearing inner race.
If spindle damged or dirty where large bearing race ride. This could keep wheel hub from properly seating all the way in/back.
The face of wheel hub where hub flange mates (gasket and or gasket surface).
The hub flange being deformed. (pound on)
The hub flanges surface at snap ring face.

Small bearing (outer), claw washer, adjusting & locking nuts and lock washer. All press wheel hub in, reducing gap. The can't hold it or push outward. But small bearing can get hung up on spindle. Which this bearing presses wheel hub in. But if using spring scale to set preload. I doubt you could get even 9lb of pull. Unless both bearings stuck outward on spindle.

In this video, you can see seal to hub flange gap. I call this normal for mileage.

 

[ikellymo]

Hey all - I had a bearing go out during a road trip in 2021 and had a random Toyota dealer do a bearing job overnight. Its been squeeling around sharp parking lot turns, but I figured it was something else because this was "done professionally". Now my CV boot tore, my LCA bushings are crap, and I'm pulling the whole thing apart to fix it all.

And I find this.... (see youtube link for audio) SUPER LOUD & LOOSE bearings. What should I do? Think its shot for sure, or I should just tension it down to proper preload and drive on it, or should I pull it all apart and repack / inspect?

Many thanks for advice.

 

[Bisho]

Hey all - I had a bearing go out during a road trip in 2021 and had a random Toyota dealer do a bearing job overnight. Its been squeeling around sharp parking lot turns, but I figured it was something else because this was "done professionally". Now my CV boot tore, my LCA bushings are crap, and I'm pulling the whole thing apart to fix it all.

And I find this.... (see youtube link for audio) SUPER LOUD & LOOSE bearings. What should I do? Think its shot for sure, or I should just tension it down to proper preload and drive on it, or should I pull it all apart and repack / inspect?

Many thanks for advice.

I’d bet the bearings are shot. It doesn’t sound like there is any grease in there. I’d buy new bearings and do the job right.

 

[ikellymo]

Thanks for the support. Oh man, the bearings were sooo shot. Burnt and pitted. Grease on some things… filthy. So I got to rebuild my hub too while re booting CV and replacing LCA and why not a new rotor while I’m at it

New bearing races fitted:

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Thanks for the support. Oh man, the bearings were sooo shot. Burnt and pitted. Grease on some things… filthy. So I got to rebuild my hub too while re booting CV and replacing LCA and why not a new rotor while I’m at it

New bearing races fitted:
View attachment 3414115

pictures of the carnage?

 

[fussychicken]

Hi all, wanted to bump this one back up. Although there are many great wheel bearing threads out there, this seemed to be one of the best master threads.

I repacked my bearings and added new rotors two years ago on my 255k truck. I'm now tracking down a bad highway vibration and am thinking I might should have replaced the bearings instead, so I'm now headed down that path.

I didn't take as many photos as I probably should have when I did the repack, but I was a little worried about the spindles when I did the job. Curious how yall would rate these? I probably screwed up at the time and just greased them up and put the bearings back on. I now plan to sand them down and make sure the new bearing sits on there nicely.

These grooves clearly mean that previously the preload was too loose and the inner race bearings were spinning on the spindle correct? Are these repairable with some emory cloth and 400/800 grit paper?

Not sure what I was thinking as I didn't get a good bearing picture, but here is a shot of one of the outer races. I think this doesn't look too bad?

 

[ScotyDosentKnow]

Anyone end up really tightening the heck out of the nut to get preload correct? Bearings were replaced maybe 20K miles ago. I just recently did new brake rotors so I had everything apart. Using the fish scale method it wanted somewhere around 90-100ft lbs to get the reading on the scale correct. Seems excessive from what most people on here are tightening to

 

[Super77]

Funny, I’m right in the middle of the same job rn. Q: in @fussychicken’s post above, the last pic showing a view into backside of the rotor, the bearing race gets pressed in with the thinner edge facing up, yes? So that the bearing can be dropped into the race and trapped between the race and the back seal?

Feels obvious, but I forgot to photograph when I took it apart.

 

[Super77]

2nd q: I found USA-made Timken bearings inside my hub, and blue-green grease. I don’t think Uncle T shipped USA-made bearings in 1999, so I’m assuming someone replaced OEM with good quality parts. 144k miles today, stock, truck has has a sedate suburban life.

However, 1) I found the inner nut only finger-tight and 2 gaskets under the drive flange. The spring scale test yielded at 1lb, which may explain my loose wheel. 2) the drive flange has had the piss hammered out of it, presumably to force it back into the stack with the extra gasket and an untorqued nut. Spline and cone holes undamaged. The bearings don’t look or sound damaged, races and hub have only visual scoring (can feel it with my fingernail).

Was planning to reuse the races but replace just the bearings where I can find USA or Japanese made ones. Anything else to check?

 

[darrenk]

Anyone end up really tightening the heck out of the nut to get preload correct? Bearings were replaced maybe 20K miles ago. I just recently did new brake rotors so I had everything apart. Using the fish scale method it wanted somewhere around 90-100ft lbs to get the reading on the scale correct. Seems excessive from what most people on here are tightening to

The last time I replaced rotors and did bearing service I was up to 90 lb-ft to get half decent break away. Seemed really high but I went with it saying to myself that the bearings were just "well broken in" (original from 98).

 

[Bisho]

2nd q: I found USA-made Timken bearings inside my hub, and blue-green grease. I don’t think Uncle T shipped USA-made bearings in 1999, so I’m assuming someone replaced OEM with good quality parts. 144k miles today, stock, truck has has a sedate suburban life.

However, 1) I found the inner nut only finger-tight and 2 gaskets under the drive flange. The spring scale test yielded at 1lb, which may explain my loose wheel. 2) the drive flange has had the piss hammered out of it, presumably to force it back into the stack with the extra gasket and an untorqued nut. Spline and cone holes undamaged. The bearings don’t look or sound damaged, races and hub have only visual scoring (can feel it with my fingernail).

Was planning to reuse the races but replace just the bearings where I can find USA or Japanese made ones. Anything else to check?

Timken and Koyo are OEM.

 

[2001LC]

Hi all, wanted to bump this one back up. Although there are many great wheel bearing threads out there, this seemed to be one of the best master threads.

I repacked my bearings and added new rotors two years ago on my 255k truck. I'm now tracking down a bad highway vibration and am thinking I might should have replaced the bearings instead, so I'm now headed down that path.

I didn't take as many photos as I probably should have when I did the repack, but I was a little worried about the spindles when I did the job. Curious how yall would rate these? I probably screwed up at the time and just greased them up and put the bearings back on. I now plan to sand them down and make sure the new bearing sits on there nicely.

These grooves clearly mean that previously the preload was too loose and the inner race bearings were spinning on the spindle correct? Are these repairable with some emory cloth and 400/800 grit paper?

View attachment 4000068

View attachment 4000070


Not sure what I was thinking as I didn't get a good bearing picture, but here is a shot of one of the outer races. I think this doesn't look too bad?
View attachment 4000069

Keep in mind. Spindle is not a race. Spindle act as alignment shaft/guide, for inner race of bearings.

I see scoring on wheel bearing race, and chatter and heat marks on spindle.

• Use emery cloth to polish spindle.
• Replace wheel bearing and races.

As a general rule; Do not use moly grease. Moly is use in EP (extreme pressure), bearings that roll at lower RPM than wheel bearings. Some newer moly modifiers expectations. But they must say wheel bearing and or high speed bearing grease.

• Do not mix up races & bearing. They are match sets.
• Pack hub cavity with grease. Leaving small air gap, between spindle and grease in hub cavity. Over packing (no air gap) retains heat. Not or Under packing, bearings burn up.
• Set brakeaway preload, with grease above 58f or greater.
• Replace hub flange snap ring, set gap to less than 0.20mm.

Lube axle needle bearing and brass bushing, ever 30K miles also.

 

[ScotyDosentKnow]

The last time I replaced rotors and did bearing service I was up to 90 lb-ft to get half decent break away. Seemed really high but I went with it saying to myself that the bearings were just "well broken in" (original from 98).

Thats good to know, I just went with it and it seems to be okay. I drove it from Seattle to Sedona and back and the wheel didnt fall off so nothing that bad happened I guess lol Just seemed strange that it took so much but I didnt want them loose on a big road trip like that.