FJ80 power steering box and pump conversion on 40 (3 Viewers)

[youngmanchego]

Howdy,

I’ve been lurking without an account for about a year now. I’m closing on a 78’ this Friday (introductory post to follow).

Out of the gate I’d like to upgrade the manual steering to powered. After poking around forums and FB marketplace, I’d like to go with the beefier 80 box and pump (over a 60). I’m committed to using as much Toyota DNA as possible (I’ll explain in my intro and build post, shortly). I’ll rebuild both the box and pump before I install them, so right now I’m just trying to find some without structural damage. Anyhow, I’m rambling. To the questions.

I’ve been combing through the FAQ and past threads on this topic but I haven’t found a straight answer on a couple of things.

1. With a custom bracket, can I mate the 80 box to the stock 40 steering shaft rag joint (on the 78), without any cutting or welding?

2. I’ve seen several builds where the 80 box is right behind the grill instead of mounted further back where the stock manual box usually goes (and where I plan on mounting mine, unless I’m convinced otherwise). In this case there is usually a long shaft mated with a u-joint to the steering column shaft (forgive me if I’m butchering nomenclature—still learning). Is this a safety thing? Is it more efficient? It seems like a complicated set up, but I could see the advantage of not having a steel rod aiming at my face getting bounced off the frame in an accident. The ujoint I presume would deflect some of that.

3. I’ve seen many many kits with a lot of bits like new tie rods and ends. Can I not just attach the 80 series pitman arm to the stock steering hardware?

4. Any strong opinions on where to mount the 80 series pump? I haven’t found anyone with a definitive answer on this. Somewhere on the block I think, but hopefully w no new holes.

I appreciate your help getting a jump on this.

 

[Malleus]

The 80 series pump is directly driven off the engine. The F engines don't have a gear for it.

That's why there are 60 series conversions; same engine.

 

[kerplunk]

The stock steering box on an FJ40 is behind the shock mount. Attached to a relay rod to a center "arm" (not sure that's the correct name) that then has a rod attached to the axle (passenger side knuckle). That center arm is also attached to the damper. And, that center arm, and the relay rod, add a lot more part to the system that are additional points for slop and wear. More modern vehicles (not really modern, but like designed in the '80s) would have the steering box around where that center arm is.

My assumption on the FJ60 and FJ80 box conversions is they are attaching those boxes forward enough on the frame to attach directly to the passenger knuckle and get rid of the relay rod and center arm. I thing the saginaw conversions are generally putting those steering boxes more or less where the center arm mounts on the frame.

Doing so, your steering column needs to be longer to reach, and since the steering column now goes forward towards the front of the frame, I'm not sure how concerned you should be about it collapsing on impact instead of coming right at you in a collision? (on a stock FJ40, it's almost behind the engine, and doubtful that could happen outside of a freakish set of circumstances).

My fj40's previous owner replaced the steering box with what I'm pretty sure is a mini truck power steering box. Pedestal for it on the frame was replaced, and I'm not sure how much else. Pump looks like it's maybe from GM, doesn't look anything like any other Toyota pump I've ever seen (but I'm no expert). But it retains that relay rod and center arm, all those wear points and included slop.... The basic dimensions of an FJ60 or FJ80 box seems to prevent it from really sitting up there on a pedestal on top of the frame near the stock location with the input pointed at the steering shaft and the output anywhere near where a pitman arm could attach to the relay rod.

 

[youngmanchego]

The 80 series pump is directly driven off the engine. The F engines don't have a gear for it.
View attachment 3459895

That's why there are 60 series conversions; same engine.

I didn’t catch that, thank you! but it appears to be only true for 92-98 pumps. 90-92 80 pumps are belt driven, which is the unit I have. Glad to have that difference pointed out though!

 

[youngmanchego]

The stock steering box on an FJ40 is behind the shock mount. Attached to a relay rod to a center "arm" (not sure that's the correct name) that then has a rod attached to the axle (passenger side knuckle). That center arm is also attached to the damper. And, that center arm, and the relay rod, add a lot more part to the system that are additional points for slop and wear. More modern vehicles (not really modern, but like designed in the '80s) would have the steering box around where that center arm is.

My assumption on the FJ60 and FJ80 box conversions is they are attaching those boxes forward enough on the frame to attach directly to the passenger knuckle and get rid of the relay rod and center arm. I thing the saginaw conversions are generally putting those steering boxes more or less where the center arm mounts on the frame.

Doing so, your steering column needs to be longer to reach, and since the steering column now goes forward towards the front of the frame, I'm not sure how concerned you should be about it collapsing on impact instead of coming right at you in a collision? (on a stock FJ40, it's almost behind the engine, and doubtful that could happen outside of a freakish set of circumstances).

My fj40's previous owner replaced the steering box with what I'm pretty sure is a mini truck power steering box. Pedestal for it on the frame was replaced, and I'm not sure how much else. Pump looks like it's maybe from GM, doesn't look anything like any other Toyota pump I've ever seen (but I'm no expert). But it retains that relay rod and center arm, all those wear points and included slop.... The basic dimensions of an FJ60 or FJ80 box seems to prevent it from really sitting up there on a pedestal on top of the frame near the stock location with the input pointed at the steering shaft and the output anywhere near where a pitman arm could attach to the relay rod.

Ah okay, thank you for the thorough response. It sounds like it’s an efficiency thing more than safety. Glad that’s clarified. Would a longer shaft with a u joint in the middle not cause a lot of slop as well? Or would it just be less?

 

[kerplunk]

Ah okay, thank you for the thorough response. It sounds like it’s an efficiency thing more than safety. Glad that’s clarified. Would a longer shaft with a u joint in the middle not cause a lot of slop as well? Or would it just be less?

I don't think "efficiency" is how I would describe it...

U joints have metal to metal contacts and in my experience rarely have a lot of play in them unless needle bearing start disintegrating, at which point they get replaced. The center arm is kinda half a steering box, large shaft mounted in a housing, looks like maybe metal on metal with some spring loading to accommodate wear (maybe, I've only ever looked at diagrams of what's inside), any slop inside it directly adds to play in the steering wheel. And the relay rod just straight up adds to ball joints, metal ball surrounded by rubber which over time wears and crushes.

As all or any of these parts wear, it adds to the amount the steering wheel moves to only take up slack against the wear points and not actually apply pressure to the knuckles (i.e. turn the tires). Which causes at least wandering, combined with other issues like a wheel bearing and wobbling becomes amplified by the wear in each point.

The safety issue is when something hits the steering box hard enough to tear if off the frame and shove the steering shaft back at you... Something you rarely hear about anymore because almost every car made since about 1970'ish or so has a collapsible column so no one's been impaled by one in a long time... (instead of an airbag it's a steel rod!!!).

 

[3_puppies]

what are your intended uses for the rig?
tire size?

 

[pb4ugo]

The 80 box is similar to the scout and fj60 p/s box, so when you search use those terms in the search function. There's a lot of info on this subject in this section along with Saginaw steering for the box out frt. Fj60, 80 steering seems complicated but it's probably the less evasive setup, except for the stk set up. It involves welding and fabrication. The design of the fj60/80 boxes won't allow you to mount it close to the firewall like your stk box. The only boxes that mount like the stk manual box is the mini truck and stk p/s box. It's my understanding you'll need to use a different pedalstal so the box lines up with your column. You'll use a rag joint like stk. You'll end up using all the stk steering rods and tre's. The scout/fj60,80 boxes mount just behind the frt bib and on top & side of the frame. You need to cut the rag joint end off the column and adapt a U joint yoke to the column. The shaft from the U joint to the box should be a double D steering shaft. They are designed to collapse in case of impact and more importantly allows for slight movement, because of the frame and tubslightly move independently. The location of the box is dependant on the relationship between the tie rod and pitman arm. One of the issues with this setup is clearancing the shock tower for the box and steering shaft. Having the box out frt eliminates 2 tre's and the center arm which helps eliminate slop. The scout,fj60/80 boxes are stronger and turn easier. The mini/fj40 is not as strong and can be more like power assist. They will struggle with larger tires. Below is one of my scout setups.

 

[scotty2hotty]

I have a 1983 FJ-40 and require a new pulley for my power steering anyone know where may find a new or used replacement?
I have no luck finding one so thought someone may know? Thanks and hope this is ok to ask here

 

[knuckle47]

@scotty2hotty no clue if it fits but I was looking for something and saw this

Power Steering Pump Pulley for Land Cruiser FJ40 FJ55 FJ60 70 Series | eBay

Power steering pump pulley for '79 to '90 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40, FJ45, FJ55, FJ60, FJ62, FJ70 / 73 / 75.

www.ebay.com

I have gotten a bunch of parts from City Racer so you could just go to their website and order

 

[3_puppies]

I have a 1983 FJ-40 and require a new pulley for my power steering anyone know where may find a new or used replacement?
I have no luck finding one so thought someone may know? Thanks and hope this is ok to ask here

where have you looked?
did you try posting in the classifieds here on mud?

Classifieds - Parts

Got more stuff in the garage than you know what to do with? One man's junk is another's treasure!

forum.ih8mud.com